WHAT DOES ROBERT BROWNING LICHFIELD LOOK LIKE?

[Anonymous]

Deb asks:
Didn't I read that there is a surviellence camera in OP?

I have heard this about Tranquility Bay - but none of the others.
Live feed to the net might help stop abuse. . . but as it is - with Jay and co being the only ones watching - I don't hold much confidence the camera is stopping anything. In fact, I fear it may be there for the entertainment of the audience.

[Anonymous]

Buzzkill - don't you refer kids to a competing troubled teen help company?

[Anonymous]

On 2004-11-13 11:00:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

As for BuzzKill, Karen, she honestly believes what her son told her.  Sad.  

Programmed Parent, do you even realize how sick you sound?



Why should a parent believe a bunch of money-hungry, sadistic strangers over THEIR OWN CHILD???



This is so sick... "

Do most parents believe when their child telling them they are being abused or starved considering the reasons they are there in the first place?  No.  Most will have already talked with many of the former students that know that is the standard stuff in the letters when they first arrive.  Did Buzzkill's kid lose weight because he refused to eat and then said he wasn't being fed?  Smart kid!  It worked.

[BuzzKill]

//Did Buzzkill's kid lose weight because he refused to eat and then said he wasn't being fed? Smart kid! It worked//

Idiot anon; my kid ate everything he could get his hands on; just like all the lower level kids.
I pulled him because you program clones gave me the creeps and I had come to realize he *might* be telling the truth about the diet and overcrowding and extremely poor educational experience. And he was. It was much later I learned about the abuse and gross neglect - and that is all true as well. Every kid I have spoken to has confirmed it - even the ones who think the program saved them.

Other idiot anon - No.

All you idiot anons - this aint about me.

[Anonymous]

Why aren't the lower level kids in a wwasp program allowed to speak with one another? Why must they never have a Normal conversation?
Why aren't the parents told their kid will not be allowed to talk to anyone? Or to look around in a normal way? Or to pet the dog?
What up with that?

 ::bandit::

[Anonymous]

Define a normal conversation.  Talking to each other about how much they liked taking drugs, hating their parents or other stuff that would keep them stuck in their old choices is not a normal conversation.  They can freely talk to upper levels cuz the upper levels won't listen to their poor me crap.  

Where did you get this info? Kids can look around in a normal way, just not during class. Not looking at the opposite sex is to teach some self control, not that they get much of chance of that anyway since the boys are girls are not in the same dorms or have much interaction anyways.

Buzzkill - did you ever have your son medically checked for his weight loss? Why do the kids gain weight when they are eating three healthy meals a day and your son lost weight?  Doesn't make sense unless his metabolism is out of the ordinary.  

No I didn't have experience with Dundee, but another WWASPS school, so what I said pertains to them, however, all of the schools have parents on campus everyday.  There are also professionals on campus everyday. Would they ALL risk losing their license to practice by not reporting abuse?

There were many parents on campus when DUndee was raided.

Narvin, please provide some links to the man who came in there and refused to let the staff intervene in the destruction of your property by the kids he told could do as they pleased.

[BuzzKill]

You don't know what your talking about. I know you think you do, but you don't.
WWASP students on the lower levels are not allowed to talk to anyone at all except in a very limited way for very limited reasons. May I sit; May I stand; That kind of thing.  Nothing that resembles normal conversation on any subject at all. Its a fact. I am just asking Why.
When moving from one local to another, they are forbidden to look to the right, or left, or up at the sky. Its face forward and eyes on the ground at all times. This is well documented; often witnessed. Its a fact. I am just asking Why.
You need to ask yourself why is it you are so ignorant of these very basic program facts and tactics.
I will cut you some slack and assume you are not aware of the history of this thread or how common the weight loss is for the BOYs on lower levels. The *Boys* universally complain of weight loss. It was by no means just my son. The problem is, you see, this notion you have about 3 good meals a day is make believe.  At least for the lower levels kids. And this is just with regard to the quantity of food. There are common descriptions of the quality of the food being very poor. Really, Very poor. Even so, the kids eat it. Right down to the last bite, because they are SO hungry.
The girls just as commonly complain of weight gain.
I have wondered why, but no explanation has been given.
You need to catch up with your reading before trying to comment again. Repetition becomes tiresome.

[BuzzKill]

girl from Cross Creek:
The staff was untrained and uneducated to work in that type of environment. I have found out that my old therapist molested a girl in my group shortly after I left. I remember he always blurred the lines of our relationship, but luckily he didn't cross those lines with me. Not to mention the diet, I gained 60lbs from the unhealthy food, and I should now I worked in the kitchen with Andy. Bless his heart he did the best he could with the budjet they gave him. Most of the staff had control issues and enjoyed torturing the kids.

Boy from Casa:
 While makeing my bed I dropped something and someone picked it up for me, I replied "thank you" to him nothing more... first cat-3 of the day, I think to myself as im sitting in worksheet its okay no biggie just work off this time my 50 points for the week are gone but hey I can get them back right? Then while eating my daily breakfest of raisin bran with raisins hard as rocks someone offers me a napkin I shake my head nothanks, well the worksheet father saw me and added on another 15 points in worksheet for "non-verbal communication" so now im pretty mad so I just finish my breakfest and im standing in line well an upper level comes by thinking hes all big and bad and power happy decides to give me a cat-2 for not having my feet together... he told me I should be greatful I didnt get 2 cat-2's for looking out of line.

(It gets worse)
They then take me up to R&R aka intervention. they told me to sit in formation. which is with your nose about an inch from the wall your back completely straight and your arms behind your back. I refused to do this and asked if I could just simply sit and have some time to cool off. So they decide .. hrmm well hey if he wont sit in formation let pull his arm behind his back until his wrist touches the back of his head.. then he should ! so they sit there pulling my arm back until it feels like its just going to pop off when that didnt work they decide well on of us hold his arms behind his back while the other punches him in the stomach and chest area about 20 minutes of this and im still refuseing to sit so they decide to take my dried up cuts on my hand from punching the windows and they twist them and make them bigger opening them all up again.. well I guess I made them mad by getting blood all over them so they decide to just kick me while I lay there for a couple minutes then for the rest of the day I decided it best that I sit in formation. well I was in intervention for about 2 months where everyday all I would think about is all the ways I could kill myself.
(and)
I faked my way all the way to level 5. it was ridiculous. I was just saying everything they wanted to hear acting exactly how they wanted me to. at pc1 I was looking my parents in the face telling them "Im so so sorry ! I love you guys so much" while thinking in my head you fucking pricks I cant believe youd put me in this shithole and try to tell me its just as hard for you to send me here as it is for me to be here when you are the ones eating your nice warm meals at night sleeping in your warm beds having the privledge of flushing your toilet paper down the toilet after it wipes your ass. god I want to murder you both right here right now... I finally got pulled a few days after christmas because of how "good" I was doing in the program. The first thing I did after I got out was tried all the new drugs and drug combinations the other kids in there told me about robbed houses did basically whatever I felt like. Well now I am in college clean and sober have a nice job and apartment of my own and im doing real good and its NO THANKS TO CASA that place is terrible.
(also)
there was so many things that they could of done to make that facility a good place that would actually help teens but it would of costed them money and that place is just a BUSINESS its just another business trying to make a profit so everything they tell you is gonna sound good cause they are trying to make money. the fathers there are mexicans hired off the street with no experience with kids or psychology or anything just random people who apply. the school system is ridiculous I got so many credits there but didnt learn anything and had to take all those classes over again so I could actually learn whats going on. it pisses me off so bad when people say stuff like " Yes, if you were a pain maybe you were restrained, etc. But if you followed the rules all was well. Get used to rules!!! They're every where. But all this whining. Grow up!! " I mean honestly youve never been there you dont know what you are talking about. I told my parents the EXACT same thing your daughter told you, you know why ? Cause I didnt wanna get sent back. Once I was sent there it was like I had to hide all my feelings and thoughts cause I could be punished for them. I wouldnt dare tell my parents how I really felt about the place. What little relationship I had with my parents was completely destroyed when i was sent there and now they think we have this huge good trusting relationship ... but its all fake.. they dont have a clue whats going on in my head. Its turned me into some sort of freak.

Girl from Casa:
 
i was at casa by the sea for 3 months. it was the 3 worst months of my life, i would never recomend for anybody to go there. the websites they have for the school are totally bogus and dont represent the true school, and what its all about. i have been out for 4 and a half months and i still cry when thinking about it b/c it was such a shitty experience. the seminars involve brainwashing, they try to con your parents into getting you to stay longer so they can get more money out of them, *the food sucks and makes you gain massive weight, i gained 25-30 lbs in 3 months. * they phsyically, mentally, and sexually abuse the kids sent there. it is a horrible place.

Girl from Casa:
When I got to Casa they made me strip in front of them which is understandable seeing as how they don't want drugs in the facility, however it should have been in front of all females not 2 females and 2 males.
(and)
Every one has to have permission to talk, stand up, sit down, eat, and everything else.
(and)
We would have a total of 5 minutes to get our food and to sit down and eat it. *Half of the time the food had hair in it, or even a couple times I found bugs. The kitchen was extremely unsanitary and that was just from what I could see at the window.* Some of the guys would even masturbate into the coolaid (this coming from one of the guys that said he played a part in it). My parents didn't have a clue about what went on there because whenever I would write to them about it "misteriously" my mail didn't get sent.
(and)
 Not only did my parents not receive my letters stating what went on in the "program" I got punished for manipulation. I was smacked several times, the "mamas" (female staff) would pull my hair and they would threaten us.

Boy from Casa:
I went to Casa by the Sea and was there for four months. It was shut down while I was there. You may think that we are all a bunch of angry kids, but really you don't know anything so it's pretty easy for you to say that. We all went though hell and back being there. I was beat by a group of straff members for clicking a pen.
 
*I was fed not even enough food to fill a 3 year old. I went to Casa weighing 240. I was a football player. I came out weighing 210 in just 4 months. *
 
When you use the bathroom you have to wipe and put the TP in a bucket next to the toilet, thats if you have TP. A good amount of the time you didn't. Most of the staff were gang members and abused drugs which they would some times try to trade to kids for watches that they stole.
 
 I am now home and I looked at some of the letters my mom got from me and they had alot missing.

I was beat very badly on 3 different days. My jaw is now completely broken and I have to have it re-broken and fixed in surgery.
I went through HELL for 121 days more than you will go through in your life. So please don't call us angry kids. Thank you for listening.

boy from cross creek and others:
I was in four WWASP programs over three consecutive years. Brightway, Spring Creek Lodge, Paradise Cove, and Red Rock Academy. I went through some of the worst abuses ever, like being beaten, pepper sprayed, *starved*, hog tied and left in a wooden closet for two days.
 
 

I'll look around for some more later. I think it might be worthwhile to compile student statments according to subject. . .

[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2004-11-13 19:32 ]

[Anonymous]

Buzz Kill - Four months makes you an expert? I agree you're an expert at finding trash on the internet and trying to brainwash others by posting hearsay.  You and the whole lot that refer to other programs need to actually get out there and enjoy life.   ::bump::

[Anonymous]

How about scores of kids going for 20+ months (proven fact) on level two or lower? Is that your idea of a program that is working? I call that torture and bullshit that needs to stop. Anon, put the coolaid down, wake up and smell the coffee.   :eek:

[BuzzKill]

Idiot anon rears its head again with:

Buzz Kill - Four months makes you an expert? I agree you're an expert at finding trash on the internet and trying to brainwash others by posting hearsay. You and the whole lot that refer to other programs need to actually get out there and enjoy life.

When did I claim to be an expert?
But I am aware.
How 'bout you?
That is not internet trash; and it rather steams me that you would dare call it trash; That is the testimony of wwasp students trying to get the truth out; trying to alleviate some of the pain; trying to do something to help stop the nightmare.
God bless them every one.
Brainwashing is an issue here. In my opinion, it is THE issue. However, what I'm doing is trying to help the victims realize they are in fact victims, so they can once again begin to think for themselves.
Use the common sense God gave you. Research mind control.
Think!
By the way - once again - I do not refer to other programs. Never have.  This persistent lie is just your way of trying to dismiss my credibility by casting a slur upon my motives.  :roll:

[Anonymous]

I am a parent that had a child in the program and have talked personally with at least 50 "students" that were in a WWASPS facility.  Many of them were graduates.  I don't post much but this is a very important topic.  Probably the most important one.  People calling our children and other young adults liars!

For the parents (or WWASPS PR department)that are saying that the quotes that Buzz Kill has posted are grabbed from the internet, you are wrong.  These are from sworn statements.  There are many of these statements taken from former "students" that are out there for you to read.  These young adults have nothing to gain by telling their story except to be heard and save others from going through what they went through.  They are out of the hands of WWASPS and want all to hear what happened to them.  Many don't speak until they are 18 and can't be thrown back to these facilities by their "kool-aid drinking" parents.

I think that a new thread should be started with only statements from former "students" and/or parents that have talked with them with direct quotes.  Then all of you can read them and sit back in judgement.  For those of you that don't want to hear the truth about what happened to them, all you can do is call them liars.  You can't even comment on what they say.  It was their experience and that is that.  "My experience of this is...."  Sound familiar from your seminars? Pretty sad.

If you really are a parent and not someone that is trying to defend people like Narvin, just sit back and listen.  There are many of us out there that talk with these young adults about their experiences.  They need to be heard.  Many of them can't talk with their parents because they don't believe them or they are so guilty for sending them, that they can't admit it.  We admitted we made a mistake putting our children in the hands of liars and we are working side by side with them to let them be heard.

My child and many others that were in the hands of Narvin have been directed to this thread.  They read what he writes and because they are free now, would like to say...He is the liar!!

Many wrote sworn statments after Dundee closed and Narvin was arrested so that their story could be told to the authorities.  Strange that the only ones that were heard after the closing were the ones that Narvin hand picked.( One of which, a graduate from Dundee, today is back on the streets selling drugs)  Many students were willing to go back down to Costa Rica and tell their story.  They are still waiting.  Strange how things get shoved under the rug in countries like this.  Now he is back, trying to clear the air so that he can reopen this facility.

[BuzzKill]

/These are from sworn statements. /

I don't want this misunderstood - there are Lots of sworn statements and I may (or others might) quote from them; But what I posted last night was not from the sworn statements. They are from general public posts on forums about the program.
This in no way detracts from their truth or their power.

There is a place and a time for everything. I don't happen to consider Fornits a place that requires sworn to testimony. A quick scan of the forums was enough to prove the point I was trying to make so thats all I did. I may do more later.

I do understand why you might think the quotes are from the sworn testimony as they are very much the same. Thats the point, really.

[Anonymous]

Sworn statements are credible?  What ever happened to that so-called (forever pending) lawsuit against WWASPS?  What's it been, two years now? Sworn testimony means nothing without a jury to decide on fact or fiction.  

Buzz Kill, are you really saying that you've never sung the praises of your program of choice?  Lots of allegations against them.  

Any teen in any Program that doesn't want to be there will say what they will to get back to their friends and former life.  Do parents send their child to a program for good behavior and honesty?

I agree that all allegations need to be thoroughly checked out because shit happens.  

The brainwashing is occurring by coercing, even graduates, into thinking that they've been abused, even when they didn't think so before.

I'm not defending Narvin. He doesn't need defending.

[BuzzKill]

I have not Referred to any program.
I have, when the subject came up, talked about the differences between the two programs I have had personal experience with.
This is not referring.
Referring implies monetary gain; which implies a tainted motive.
This does not apply to my situation or anything I have ever done.

The law suite has been in the process of negotiations. Its not something I or anyone can plaster on a public forum. I do believe it will be more public in the days ahead. We must wait and see.

Others cases have been filed and might be of interest as well, in the days ahead.

Testimony has been given in court and a jury did make a finding. It did not go well for your friends. I hope, in the days ahead, the transcripts will be posted and available for your review. I hope you will review them. Mean while, you might want to read my observation of the trial:
http://isaccorp.org/wwasps/kbobservations.pdf

I agree Narvin doesn't need defending. He needs convicting. And he's not alone. But of corse, until it happens, this is only my opinion.