Author Topic: Have you considered...?  (Read 9468 times)

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Offline kev (antiWWASP.com)

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Have you considered...?
« on: November 30, 2008, 12:16:20 PM »
Hello Fornits, just your friendly, neighborhood WWASP fighter here... :)

I wanted to ask if everyone is satisfied with the large orange "object" (have no clue what that thing is) next to your text logo? Though I realize the decision making aspect ultimately relies on Ginger, I wanted to ask whether everyone besides Ginger is satisfied with your identity as a community (maybe wrong word?)... Perhaps we could sway the nice woman into changing it?

If a graphic designer can't interpret an object on your website... I'll stop there for now..

My interpretation of this image is that is came from a very old design, and you are hanging on to that for some reason (originality, the feelings you felt in creating this site.. etc). But, it is my PROFESSIONAL opinion (if I was quoting your website for a design) would be to update your identity. I think you'd be surprised at the results you will get in people feeling a deeper "sense of belonging", mostly attributed to visually pleasing imagery, and a professional identity... But hey, don't take my word for it, I can send 50 designers your way and you will inevitably get the same response from 45 of them. I rarely speak (or post) unless I can back it up with proof, and I can give you proof in results, if you heed my advice.

My intention is not to criticize, however, I've been hesitant to link up with fornits up until this post, being as my focus is graphic and web development and you have a giant spire or angel or something up there looking at me...

What is that thing and where did it come from? Perhaps we could redo a version of it that is a bit more "web 2.0" once you tell me what it is? Psy mentioned that you won't budge here Ginger, but the way I see it I personally get prodded into actions that may be better for the group (rather than the individual) all the time. Perhaps I'd like to see someone else forced into action by a collective consensus, but who knows, I'm an asshole for the most part. (trust me i really do know im an ass...)

Anyways, please share your thoughts here because I am offering to do the logo pro-bono, and I'm sure Psy won't hesitate to crank out a prototype as well based on his feelings on this issue..

Nostalgia, in this case, is painful for me to see...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[9:26:52 AM] Michael Crawford says: it\'s an orange splotch with sentimental value to ginger.

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Have you considered...?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2008, 12:32:17 PM »
Shut up.  :fuckoff:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

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Re: Have you considered...?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2008, 12:44:28 PM »
That design is called Autumn Fairy. Some people have interpreted her as a x-tian angel, but she never was partial to any particular religion or philosophy. I suppose the image has become degraded over time due to resizing and such. Maybe I can dig up an older version and rework it from scratch? I must admit, I don't care for the color clash w/ the PhpBB blue. She looked much more at home on the old buff parchment background, imho. I'd be interested in improving that. But I also don't want to move toward a more professional look and feel. This is not a professional site at all. It's an open free-for-all for any and all with any sort of interest in the thought reform industry. Matter of fact, I rather like the idea that the 'professionals' might feel a bit less at home.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Have you considered...?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2008, 12:51:35 PM »
Quote from: "Antigen"
- It's an open free-for-all*

*with the exception of secret password protected forums
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline kev (antiWWASP.com)

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Re: Have you considered...?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2008, 01:17:45 PM »
what's the point of reading these rediculous guest posts? or why not require registration like the other 90 percent of forums on the internet? you really don't stand to benefit in my opinion from these losers who use this place to fuel their hunger for conflict.. its like an infestation.. your database is full of garbage... clogged and unhealthy garbage, you should purge them. i really figured you for an innovator ginger, someone who sees change as a means for growth... these "stubborn" ideals don't improve your website, on the contrary, I've avoided fornits for so long for that reason alone. I have to choose besides function and form, and should i really have to? why not provide both? you're entitled to do whatever you wish as you own this site and everything inside it, and i'm just stating an opinion so it can be lost in the pile with everyone elses opinions i suppose, but these changes would improve your website's overall look and feel, and make yourself look more appear a bit more "giving" in the process. now i realize you don't care a lot about how others view you, i'm sure you could probably care less. thats not the point, you're the one in control. i would create a forum to steal your traffic in a moderated environment but im only an asshole, not a fucktard. such is the beauty of unmoderated forums, correct? i can do WHATEVER i want... so at this point, what i want is to tear the heart and sole of your webforums out, and steal all the traffic, will these posts also stand aside the rest of the unmoderated content? or will you delete them to benefit yourself while i try to manipulate your audience?

i can live with unmoderated forums when the content of the visitors posts have relevance, but you've unleashed these society rejects with free reign to confront and torment legitimate people with vested interests, without any control. it's alarming. Free Speech is invaluable, but i am going to try to develop a plan to dispose of the people who's sole purpose is "getting a rise" and "fucking with people". i would hate to have to steal your audience, and i'm not threatening you at all, there is just a legitimate need for a larger moderated forum with content you seem to have already accumulated. i'm sure there are several people here more than willing to pack up, move, and be troll-free, does that sound unreasonable?

this is not a personally directed message, i'm writing this to the webmaster and administrator of a website in my genre, so the way i see it, i'm actually just stating my intentions. i also believe your content to be the primary reason for your traffic, its just a shame i have to dig through pounds of bullshit to find the gems, i simply don't have that kind of time. so all-in-all, i'm just asking you to bend in favor of the common good, regardless of personal or emotional beliefs. there is no benefit to me personally here, i just want to see this place be as awesome as it's capable of being.

great job so far by the way, all these years and you're still doing things your way, or the highway, you must be doing something right (tried really hard to be nice here!) lol... again, take it as an attack if you wish, but i'm more just picking your brain to understand why someone so intelligent can't weigh the argument with logic involved... how about this, if there was a way to take out every troll, would you do it?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[9:26:52 AM] Michael Crawford says: it\'s an orange splotch with sentimental value to ginger.

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Have you considered...?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2008, 01:23:12 PM »
Quote from: "kev (antiWWASP.com)"
what's the point of reading these rediculous guest posts? or why not require registration like the other 90 percent of forums on the internet? you really don't stand to benefit in my opinion from these losers who use this place to fuel their hunger for conflict.. its like an infestation.. your database is full of garbage... clogged and unhealthy garbage, you should purge them. i really figured you for an innovator ginger, someone who sees change as a means for growth... these "stubborn" ideals don't improve your website, on the contrary, I've avoided fornits for so long for that reason alone. I have to choose besides function and form, and should i really have to? why not provide both? you're entitled to do whatever you wish as you own this site and everything inside it, and i'm just stating an opinion so it can be lost in the pile with everyone elses opinions i suppose, but these changes would improve your website's overall look and feel, and make yourself look more appear a bit more "giving" in the process. now i realize you don't care a lot about how others view you, i'm sure you could probably care less. thats not the point, you're the one in control. i would create a forum to steal your traffic in a moderated environment but im only an asshole, not a fucktard. such is the beauty of unmoderated forums, correct? i can do WHATEVER i want... so at this point, what i want is to tear the heart and sole of your webforums out, and steal all the traffic, will these posts also stand aside the rest of the unmoderated content? or will you delete them to benefit yourself while i try to manipulate your audience?

i can live with unmoderated forums when the content of the visitors posts have relevance, but you've unleashed these society rejects with free reign to confront and torment legitimate people with vested interests, without any control. it's alarming. Free Speech is invaluable, but i am going to try to develop a plan to dispose of the people who's sole purpose is "getting a rise" and "fucking with people". i would hate to have to steal your audience, and i'm not threatening you at all, there is just a legitimate need for a larger moderated forum with content you seem to have already accumulated. i'm sure there are several people here more than willing to pack up, move, and be troll-free, does that sound unreasonable?

this is not a personally directed message, i'm writing this to the webmaster and administrator of a website in my genre, so the way i see it, i'm actually just stating my intentions. i also believe your content to be the primary reason for your traffic, its just a shame i have to dig through pounds of bullshit to find the gems, i simply don't have that kind of time. so all-in-all, i'm just asking you to bend in favor of the common good, regardless of personal or emotional beliefs. there is no benefit to me personally here, i just want to see this place be as awesome as it's capable of being.

great job so far by the way, all these years and you're still doing things your way, or the highway, you must be doing something right (tried really hard to be nice here!) lol... again, take it as an attack if you wish, but i'm more just picking your brain to understand why someone so intelligent can't weigh the argument with logic involved... how about this, if there was a way to take out every troll, would you do it?

How many trolls were referring kids to abusive programs like you did? None that I know of.

BTW, your forum sucks.  :twofinger:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Have you considered...?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2008, 01:48:28 PM »
Quote from: "kev (antiWWASP.com)"
what's the point of reading these rediculous guest posts?

If ya don't like it, go back to your forum. Oh, that's right, it only gets 1 new post per week. *crickets*


Quote
or why not require registration like the other 90 percent of forums on the internet?

Then this forum would suck just as much as yours does.


Quote
you really don't stand to benefit in my opinion from these losers who use this place to fuel their hunger for conflict.. its like an infestation.. your database is full of garbage... clogged and unhealthy garbage, you should purge them.

How very stalinesque of you.


Quote
i really figured you for an innovator ginger, someone who sees change as a means for growth... these "stubborn" ideals don't improve your website, on the contrary, I've avoided fornits for so long for that reason alone.

Maybe fornits should completely restructure itself to your whims, Kevin. You really are a self-centered ego maniac, aren't ya?

Quote
I have to choose besides function and form, and should i really have to? why not provide both?

Because it's all about you, right?


Quote
you're entitled to do whatever you wish as you own this site and everything inside it, and i'm just stating an opinion so it can be lost in the pile with everyone elses opinions i suppose, but these changes would improve your website's overall look and feel, and make yourself look more appear a bit more "giving" in the process.

 :roflmao:

Quote
now i realize you don't care a lot about how others view you, i'm sure you could probably care less. thats not the point, you're the one in control.

 :rofl:


Quote
i would create a forum to steal your traffic in a moderated environment but im only an asshole, not a fucktard. such is the beauty of unmoderated forums, correct? i can do WHATEVER i want... so at this point, what i want is to tear the heart and sole of your webforums out, and steal all the traffic, will these posts also stand aside the rest of the unmoderated content? or will you delete them to benefit yourself while i try to manipulate your audience?

You are an arrogant prick. Nobody is going to follow you over to your forum. Why? Because it sucks.

Quote
i can live with unmoderated forums when the content of the visitors posts have relevance, but you've unleashed these society rejects with free reign to confront and torment legitimate people with vested interests, without any control. it's alarming.

Alert the internet police! :bs:

Quote
Free Speech is invaluable, but i am going to try to develop a plan to dispose of the people who's sole purpose is "getting a rise" and "fucking with people". i would hate to have to steal your audience, and i'm not threatening you at all, there is just a legitimate need for a larger moderated forum with content you seem to have already accumulated. i'm sure there are several people here more than willing to pack up, move, and be troll-free, does that sound unreasonable?

Man, you're pathetic.  :roflmao:

Quote
this is not a personally directed message, i'm writing this to the webmaster and administrator of a website in my genre, so the way i see it, i'm actually just stating my intentions. i also believe your content to be the primary reason for your traffic, its just a shame i have to dig through pounds of bullshit to find the gems, i simply don't have that kind of time.

But you have time to write long posts complaining about how this forum isn't just the way you want it?

Quote
so all-in-all, i'm just asking you to bend in favor of the common good, regardless of personal or emotional beliefs. there is no benefit to me personally here, i just want to see this place be as awesome as it's capable of being.

Common good?  :roflmao: You just want to see this place as dead as your forum. Or you're stupid. Take your pick.

Quote
great job so far by the way, all these years and you're still doing things your way, or the highway, you must be doing something right (tried really hard to be nice here!) lol... again, take it as an attack if you wish, but i'm more just picking your brain to understand why someone so intelligent can't weigh the argument with logic involved... how about this, if there was a way to take out every troll, would you do it?

I'd rather deal with 1000 trolls than your self centered arrogant bullshit. You are no different than Sue Scheff, referring kids to abusive programs just as long as it ain't wwasp. The universe doesn't revolve around you, just a friendly reminder.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline kev (antiWWASP.com)

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Re: Have you considered...?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2008, 01:49:13 PM »
thank you mr troll, your comments have so much bearing in my life... i will remember this forever.. bwahahah
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[9:26:52 AM] Michael Crawford says: it\'s an orange splotch with sentimental value to ginger.

Offline psy

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Re: Have you considered...?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2008, 01:49:37 PM »
Kev.  I suggest asking Ginger her reasons, perhaps calling her up.  You might either agree or find that she has solid reasons for the way she runs the forum.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Antigen

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Re: Have you considered...?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2008, 01:58:49 PM »
Quote from: "kev (antiWWASP.com)"
how about this, if there was a way to take out every troll, would you do it?

Nope
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Have you considered...?
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2008, 02:00:00 PM »
So how's that "unity alliance" going, with one member forum basically declaring war on the other?  :roflmao:  :jerry:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

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Re: Have you considered...?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2008, 02:06:30 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
So how's that "unity alliance" going, with one member forum basically declaring war on the other?  :roflmao:  :jerry:

Look, Kev.  It's probably best if you apologize for offending the members of this forum.  You may think it's funny, but a large percentage of this forum are guests, and calling them all societal rejects will not make friends, neither will coming on here and attempting to dictate policy.  I'm not offended because I realize you were trying to help, but that probably isn't going to be the case with most others.  If you want to discuss how things are done on Fornits you're probably better off asking "why are things this way" or calling up Ginger and having her explain.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Have you considered...?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2008, 02:12:29 PM »
This issue came up before, 'bout a year and a half ago, brought up by Ginger herself if I recall, so don't rag on Kev too much for bringing it up (although the timing could have been a tad more sensitive).

Regardless of the moniker "autumn fairy," the design is based on old European wood carvings of angels. And I am very partial to it. Reworking the design from a less multiple generation sounds like a good idea. I'd also recommend moving the Fornits-WWF text a little further away from it, if possible, to help it stand out more and clarify the image... Speaking of the text, please don't change it. It is practically a trademark at this point.

Quote from: "kev (antiWWASP.com)"
My interpretation of this image is that is came from a very old design, and you are hanging on to that for some reason (originality, the feelings you felt in creating this site.. etc). But, it is my PROFESSIONAL opinion (if I was quoting your website for a design) would be to update your identity. I think you'd be surprised at theresults you will get in people feeling a deeper "sense of belonging", mostly attributed to visually pleasing imagery, and a professional identity... But hey, don't take my word for it, I can send 50 designers your way and you will inevitably get the same response from 45 of them. I rarely speak (or post) unless I can back it up with proof, and I can give you proof in results, if you heed my advice.

With all due respect, Kev, here's the problem with that outlook: there are different kinds of markets out there, and the success (or lack thereof) of products offered to some of them really can't be measured by the "hipness" of logo appearance. Some markets are really more focused on "integrity," for example, and folks start getting real suspicious about change. Not saying that it can't or shouldn't happen, just that you really have to be absolutely sure you know where you are going, before you start tinkering with that concept.

Here's an interesting recent blog entry on The Brand Builder:

Chronic logo redesign vs. preserving brand integrity: Pepsi-Cola vs. Coca-Cola?
October 27, 2008 by Olivier Blanchard

    ...But I guess once you get past the cool time capsule thing, you kind of have to wonder: Has each change in logo actually resulted in some kind of benefit for the Pepsi Cola company? Has the Pepsi brand been strengthened by every new logo design? Has each new logo helped boost sales of Pepsi Cola over time? Has the company’s chronic change of emblem and packaging art had a measurable impact on the company’s bottom-line?[/list]

    Blanchard airs more thoughts in the comments section:

      I used to be very much against logo redesigns, but I am much more relaxed about them now, as long as a redesign follows certain rules:

      1. The redesign must serve a specific purpose.
      2. The redesign must benefit the brand in both the short and long term.
      3. The redesign absolutely cannot be the result of either a) a new agency wanting to put their mark on a client’s most obvious piece of property, or b) a newly appointed executive within the company’s need to put his/her mark on the company’s most obvious piece of property.

      I have seen item #3 happen so many times that I’ve grown a little suspicious of anyone recommending a logo change without serious justification. :)

      Besides, once you start down that road, it gets slippery fast.

      In my opinion, unless a logo is so horrible that it actually hurts a brand, any logo changes should be so subtle that most people wouldn’t notice them.
      [/list]

      He also goes on to point out examples in which frequent logo change seems to be in keeping with and perhaps beneficial for the company or its products (e.g., Apple). Clearly, it depends. Personally, I think Apple is so well known, it can afford to mess with its logos, though they always seem to have an apple in there somewhere, eh? Apple is also known for its design innovations per se, so tinkering with their logos is fully in keeping with what they do product-wise.

      Somehow, I rather doubt that Fornits is as well known as Apple. And its product, hosting an ongoing discussion re. the TTI, seems to have little to do with design issues, and a LOT more to do with the integrity of the product, namely lack of censorship, etc...

      Just my 4˘, for what it's worth...
      « Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 02:16:06 PM by Ursus »
      -------------- • -------------- • --------------

      Offline kev (antiWWASP.com)

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      Re: Have you considered...?
      « Reply #13 on: November 30, 2008, 02:14:23 PM »
      but the point of this was to get the massive reaction that has already been brought about... thats the point of fornits right... one big huge contradiction... i'm going to leave now, at psy's request so we can continue working on the anti program portal.

      since i'm so self centered and only focused on myself... lol, you aren't paying attention are you julie? i can appreciate your outrageous and unfounded commentary on the matter, but you look like an idiot when someone offers their services PRO BONO, meaning (No monetary benefit, i get the feeling you're a bit slow so i thought i'd include that too) and you call that being self-centered.. you contradict yourself the more you open your mouth, i would just stop while you're only slightly lagging behind..

      i could take the time to pick apart your post, full of "sucks" this "sucks" that. but there really is nothing to gain. i would actually be hurting myself by responding, for degrading myself enough to completely retort such a meaningless post. you had no merit, you realize that.. you even made untrue statements... 1 post a week (albeit an exaggeration) is rediculous, the forums have 11,000 posts, over the course of the last 12 months (started over a while back).. you obviously aren't very good at math..

       perhaps you attended a behavior mod facility and that is the reason for your lack of intelligence and intellect, but again, im just a self centered prick... and in the scope of forming an anti program portal for the sole purpose of awareness of these issues, your comments about my short lived time as a referral person are extinct.. meaning at one time i took advantage of a horribly selfish loophole when i had no money. i've seen people suck cock for crack, rob old ladies, and you're going to spend this much time on my short lived time as a referral person (less than 2 weeks)... and for the record NO TEEN ENTERED A PROGRAM FROM THESE MATTERS... no result... no one was harmed... so while you can blame and point fingers and toss around more blame to gain a better position in the argument, you're actually wrong about most of what you posted. but again we're at fornits right? the home of "no accountability for your actions"...

      now i think i'll go back to work on my selfish projects that have helped hundreds of teens.
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
      [9:26:52 AM] Michael Crawford says: it\'s an orange splotch with sentimental value to ginger.

      Offline kev (antiWWASP.com)

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      Re: Have you considered...?
      « Reply #14 on: November 30, 2008, 02:23:15 PM »
      thanks for offering something besides the usual bullshit ursus. great insight as always, wish everyone behaved themselves over here, then there could be forward motion... i suppose the mistake was in my interpretation of this place.. but psy asked me to not get involved here anymore... so i have to hold my tongue for the benefit of the organizations forming our alliance..

      and to whoever posted before about infighting and not being able to get started?

      lol we're almost done with two expose sites and the portal... no progress at all.. keep believing that.. im amazed at how well everyone is getting along, but you wouldnt know that because your a guest, and you're not allowed to view the private forums now are you?
      « Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 02:37:51 PM by kev (antiWWASP.com) »
      [9:26:52 AM] Michael Crawford says: it\'s an orange splotch with sentimental value to ginger.