Secret Alliance

[Rusty Goat]

? I hear folks have the password, guess I aint welcome, LOL... hmm, that's ok. Ever since HEAL broke off diplomatic ties with ISAC, I guess I'm not surprised at anything anymore.
RG

[Anonymous]

Whether some have contacted one of us by Spft or not, I dont know.

Our cell structure are inherited from Holger Danske - one of our resistant groups during WWII. You can take one of us down, but not us all.

But I hope that people can put personal interests and exposure aside for the just cause.

As far as Covergaard has briefed us it will business as usual by Spft. We are not part of any fight between the organizations. We will continue to be on friendly terms with everyone and even if they don't like us we will still remain polite to them.

Regards
On behalf of Covergaard

Oscar.

[Che Gookin]

They are still in the process of contacting everyone. I wouldn't look to much into it or take it as a personal slight.

This al started exactly 3 days ago with the negotiating and compromising to get the rough idea worked out. We started just yesterday with the new sekrit forums to get things figured out after antiwwasp imploded due to hosting issues.

I'll send psy this link and hopefully he can get a move on. It is my hope that both you dudes are in on the party as it is going to be a good one.

[Rusty Goat]

Here there's neither worries nor fight,
Ridin the wind up goes the kite,
Allies are good, foes are bad
When its done I hope we're glad     :cheers:

RG

[Che Gookin]

thus speaketh the wise one Wee Prince Willie!

Thanks for be patient guys and have a great thanks giving.

[psy]

They are still in the process of contacting everyone. I wouldn't look to much into it or take it as a personal slight.

Che is correct It was an oversight.  Sorry bout that.

[psy]

Whether some have contacted one of us by Spft or not, I dont know.

Our cell structure are inherited from Holger Danske - one of our resistant groups during WWII. You can take one of us down, but not us all.

But I hope that people can put personal interests and exposure aside for the just cause.

As far as Covergaard has briefed us it will business as usual by Spft. We are not part of any fight between the organizations. We will continue to be on friendly terms with everyone and even if they don't like us we will still remain polite to them.

Regards
On behalf of Covergaard

Oscar.

You should contact Coovergaard.  I gave him the password to the A.P.ALL forum (at the bottom of the forum list).

[Anonymous]

So how are you going to prevent infighting this time 'round? Didn't kevin of anti wwasp call HEAL a terrorist organization? Is there a reason why the different anti-program organizations are separated to begin with?  :on phone:

[psy]

So how are you going to prevent infighting this time 'round?

By cooperating on projects that we agree on (such as exposing programs), and not touching areas that we don't agree on (eg. to regulate or not to regulate).  Individual organizations can still have their own stances on things.  This is more of a "work cooperative" or a "resource sharing partnership" than anything else.  The one solid rule everybody agrees on is no referrals, and if you do, you're the fuck out the door.

Didn't kevin of anti wwasp call HEAL a terrorist organization

Yeah, Kev said that, but he's not in charge (nobody is.  decisions are by consensus) and i'm pretty sure he regrets saying that.  In his defense, everybody says stupid childish shit sometimes.  To hold it against him for so long?  I'm just not sure that's productive when the anti-WWASP community has so much to offer to the projects this cooperative is considering.

Is there a reason why the different anti-program organizations are separated to begin with?  :on phone:

Because while different anti-program organizations usually agree on what the problem is, they often have wildly different opinions on dealing with the problem.  This has lead to a fair amount of hostility and division which is ultimately counterproductive.  This cooperative is to organize projects that the group can agree on (and only that).

[Anonymous]

These are some thoughts I have on this new secret alliance.

1) Fornits is already slow, actually, it's super slow and has been for a while. Out of the tens of thousands of kids that went through programs, not many are showing up here to talk about it. By giving the few regulars that do post a password to a secret forum, then it promotes people posting in secret and new members are going to miss out on the interesting conversations.

2) It creates a leadership clique. It's hard not to be reminded of the program with this type of tiered membership. Who makes the decision as to who is allowed to get the password and be part of the clique? One person? Does the group take a vote? You see where I'm going with this. It creates a divided forum. Different rules for different people.

3) I thought the point of this forum was to see if a non censored, open free for all discussion on programs would result in the obvious conclusion that programs are bad to those who read it. When a survivors gets outed with their addresses and pictures posted, this argument constantly comes up. If this is going to just be another forum talking about programs, but run by anti-program activists, why allow the humiliation of survivors to continue?

4) It creates an atmosphere of less honesty. If you know your membership in a anti-program clique can be revoked at any time, you might hold your tongue as to your real opinion. As a discussion forum, that is a bad thing. If it's activism people are after, then obviously this sort of thing is common place. If I come in here and say I had a so-so time at a program, it helped me in some ways, but didn't in others, would I be allowed in the secret forum? I doubt it. So people are going to not say that sort of thing, which results in stale conversations. Preaching to the choir can be a relief sometimes, but it doesn't change anybody's mind about programs. Isn't the great thing about this forum, is that it educates the public to the reality of this industry, and the conflicts within it?

Those are some of my thoughts on this alliance. I don't sign in, so don't worry I am not seeking and would not accept membership. Boo-hoo, right? If I created a persona that appeared to be vehemently anti-program, maybe I could gain entry. If a program really wanted to know what was going on in secret, it's not that hard for them. Unless it's a super-duper-secret forum, but in that case, it would quickly die due to boring conversations between just a handful of forum faithful. So it leaves me with the question, what is the point.

[Anonymous]

Believe me, you are not missing out on anything. My guess is that the partitioning off was merely to cut down on the idle chatter and to keep the focus on specifics. All of which will become public soon enough.

[psy]

These are some thoughts I have on this new secret alliance.

1) Fornits is already slow, actually, it's super slow and has been for a while. Out of the tens of thousands of kids that went through programs, not many are showing up here to talk about it. By giving the few regulars that do post a password to a secret forum, then it promotes people posting in secret and new members are going to miss out on the interesting conversations.

The forum will be open to the public shortly (probably on new years, if not earlier).  It really doesn't need to be open to the public.  It's more or less for planning and a place to organize for the project.  The fact that it's on Fornits is Irrelevant.  We could do the same on a listserv.

2) It creates a leadership clique. It's hard not to be reminded of the program with this type of tiered membership. Who makes the decision as to who is allowed to get the password and be part of the clique? One person? Does the group take a vote? You see where I'm going with this. It creates a divided forum. Different rules for different people.

The group itself, as explained in my post above, is more or less leaderless.  It's a cooperative for working on projects everybody can agree on (yes, such things can and do exist).

3) I thought the point of this forum was to see if a non censored, open free for all discussion on programs would result in the obvious conclusion that programs are bad to those who read it. When a survivors gets outed with their addresses and pictures posted, this argument constantly comes up. If this is going to just be another forum talking about programs, but run by anti-program activists, why allow the humiliation of survivors to continue?

You mention how many times this has come up, so you already know how many times myself and Antigen have addressed that issue.  There is no point in reiterating myself yet again on this matter.

4) It creates an atmosphere of less honesty. If you know your membership in a anti-program clique can be revoked at any time, you might hold your tongue as to your real opinion.

I already said there was only one real rule (no referrals).  Otherwise, nobody is holding their tongue, but then again, there isn't much need to since the purpose of the group is to act on what we already agree on (not argue about what we don't).  When you see what we have in store, I don't think you will be disappointed (unless you work for the industry).

Those are some of my thoughts on this alliance. I don't sign in, so don't worry I am not seeking and would not accept membership. Boo-hoo, right? If I created a persona that appeared to be vehemently anti-program, maybe I could gain entry. If a program really wanted to know what was going on in secret, it's not that hard for them. Unless it's a super-duper-secret forum, but in that case, it would quickly die due to boring conversations between just a handful of forum faithful. So it leaves me with the question, what is the point.

It's more to keep trolls out and keep the work on track for the moment.  We're preparing a surprise.  You'll like it (again, unless you work for the industry).

[Anonymous]

By cooperating on projects that we agree on (such as exposing programs), and not touching areas that we don't agree on (eg. to regulate or not to regulate).  Individual organizations can still have their own stances on things.  This is more of a "work cooperative" or a "resource sharing partnership" than anything else.  The one solid rule everybody agrees on is no referrals, and if you do, you're the fuck out the door.

Wasn't Kevin also doing referals a while back? I guess he learned his lesson if he wants to be part of 'the group.'  :rofl:

Yeah, Kev said that, but he's not in charge (nobody is.  decisions are by consensus) and i'm pretty sure he regrets saying that.  In his defense, everybody says stupid childish shit sometimes.  To hold it against him for so long?  I'm just not sure that's productive when the anti-WWASP community has so much to offer to the projects this cooperative is considering.

HEAL stands for human, earth, animal liberation which means they want to free rabbits and mice just as much as the kids in programs. That's great if they feel that way, more power to them. But, people need to ask themselves if equating animals and trees to kids locked up against their will is something they feel comfortable with. Is that an organization they want to represent them as a survivor.

Because while different anti-program organizations usually agree on what the problem is, they often have wildly different opinions on dealing with the problem.  This has lead to a fair amount of hostility and division which is ultimately counterproductive.  This cooperative is to organize projects that the group can agree on (and only that).

There is 'hostility and division' because they have 'wildly different opinions on dealing with the problem'. So what will happen when you attempt to bring all these org's to the table, and attempt to find consensus? Instead of every org doing their own thing, in a way that works for them following their own beliefs, people will be asked to compromise for the sake of unity.

Does anti wwasp want to take flak for what is posted on HEAL? Does issac want to take criticism for the racist threads on fornits? Does fornits want to take responsibility for what cafety does? Each organization has found a niche, and they do their thing well. Fornits is just a forum as far as I know, it doesn't take stances on issues as far as I know. Of course I want all of these organizations to succeed, but I have a bad feeling that attempting to homogenize them will create only infighting, betrayal and more drama. But maybe that's what people want, they do loves the drama 'round here.

[psy]

Wasn't Kevin also doing referals a while back? I guess he learned his lesson if he wants to be part of 'the group.'  :rofl:

He has.  He knows if he were ever to refer again I would bring down the wrath of all that is unholy (not to mention he would be booted out of the group).

HEAL stands for human, earth, animal liberation which means they want to free rabbits and mice just as much as the kids in programs. That's great if they feel that way, more power to them. But, people need to ask themselves if equating animals and trees to kids locked up against their will is something they feel comfortable with. Is that an organization they want to represent them as a survivor.

Well then I guess they shouldnt join heal then.

There is 'hostility and division' because they have 'wildly different opinions on dealing with the problem'. So what will happen when you attempt to bring all these org's to the table, and attempt to find consensus?

That has actually already been done.  Now we're at the point where we're working together, and so far it's going more than good.  People are starting to have hope again.

Instead of every org doing their own thing, in a way that works for them following their own beliefs, people will be asked to compromise for the sake of unity.

Nope.  There will be no compromise.  Again, we're not touching issues that we don't agree on.  We're acting on what we do.

Does anti wwasp want to take flak for what is posted on HEAL? Does issac want to take criticism for the racist threads on fornits? Does fornits want to take responsibility for what cafety does?

This isn't a union.  It's a strategic partnership for working on projects.  We are better off pooling resources and working together on what we agree on.

Fornits is just a forum as far as I know, it doesn't take stances on issues as far as I know. Of course I want all of these organizations to succeed, but I have a bad feeling that attempting to homogenize them will create only infighting, betrayal and more drama. But maybe that's what people want, they do loves the drama 'round here.

I had similar skepticism at first, but things have turned out far better than I expected.  When we start releasing our little surprises (which we are already working on), you'll agree that working together pays off (unless, of course, you work for the industry and enjoy our division).  Anyway.  I have to get back to work.

[psy]

Believe me, you are not missing out on anything. My guess is that the partitioning off was merely to cut down on the idle chatter and to keep the focus on specifics. All of which will become public soon enough.

Yup.  And arguing with the other guest is the sort of Idle chatter I am going to have to choose to avoid right now.  His questions have been answered and now I'm getting back to work.