General Interest > Tacitus' Realm
Wow, obama is going to win
psy:
--- Quote from: "KathyS" ---
--- Quote from: "psy" --- Yes. I've read their "we don't do that anymore" response, and it's my opinion based on past experience that it's a crock. "We don't do that anymore" is what they always say when they get caught.
--- End quote ---
I have been exposed to a little more than that. I have seen the detailed changes that took place from the top down. They have made many procedural changes since then.
--- End quote ---
Such as? You know this first hand?
You know this from detailed questions of current graduates (for example, have you asked recent graduates who have been out for a year or so whether not not duct tape was used, whether or not there were isolation rooms, whether or not the program required detailed sexual histories which were made public etc?
--- Quote ---But knowing what I do about the changes made, the amount of time that has passed to allow a cultural change to take effect I would easily allow a loved one to go. I take it from your tone that you do not trust that any changes have taken place. You have to consider that this was a long time ago (mid to late ‘90’s). A cultural change takes only a few years to take hold.
--- End quote ---
When did they claim these cultural changes started?
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
--- Quote from: "KathyS" ---
--- Quote from: "psy" --- Yes. I've read their "we don't do that anymore" response, and it's my opinion based on past experience that it's a crock. "We don't do that anymore" is what they always say when they get caught.
--- End quote ---
I have been exposed to a little more than that. I have seen the detailed changes that took place from the top down. They have made many procedural changes since then.
--- End quote ---
Such as? You know this first hand?
You know this from detailed questions of current graduates (for example, have you asked recent graduates who have been out for a year or so whether not not duct tape was used, whether or not there were isolation rooms, whether or not the program required detailed sexual histories which were made public etc?
--- Quote ---But knowing what I do about the changes made, the amount of time that has passed to allow a cultural change to take effect I would easily allow a loved one to go. I take it from your tone that you do not trust that any changes have taken place. You have to consider that this was a long time ago (mid to late ‘90’s). A cultural change takes only a few years to take hold.
--- End quote ---
When did they claim these cultural changes started?
--- End quote ---
Myself and others review information as a team. I dont recall the timelines and detail, but there was a great amount of work done by FFS to address all the open items and problems they had experienced in the past. It would be difficult to sort thru the information and present it and I am not sure if I would be allowed to on an open web site. I'll probably get my ass chewed, as it is, tomorrow.
My brain is a little fried and sleep deprived and I have not been very productive today.
Not one referral!! ...... Only kidding.
psy:
--- Quote from: "KathyS" ---Myself and others review information as a team. I dont recall the timelines and detail, but there was a great amount of work done by FFS to address all the open items and problems they had experienced in the past. It would be difficult to sort thru the information and present it and I am not sure if I would be allowed to on an open web site.
--- End quote ---
Well. If you can't answer the timeline in detail can you answer whether the information was directly from FFS or was it confirmed by secondary sources as I suggested (questions of current graduates (for example, have you asked recent graduates who have been out for a year or so whether not not duct tape was used, whether or not there were isolation rooms, whether or not the program required detailed sexual histories which were made public etc?).
--- Quote ---I'll probably get my ass chewed, as it is, tomorrow.
My brain is a little fried and sleep deprived and I have not been very productive today.
Not one referral!! ...... Only kidding.
--- End quote ---
I'm somewhat surprised more educational consultants haven't posted on this site more. It's unmoderated and anonymous after all. I know lots read this site but why more don't post is a mystery.
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "psy" --- Well. If you can't answer the timeline in detail can you answer whether the information was directly from FFS or was it confirmed by secondary sources as I suggested (questions of current graduates (for example, have you asked recent graduates who have been out for a year or so whether not not duct tape was used, whether or not there were isolation rooms, whether or not the program required detailed sexual histories which were made public etc?).
--- End quote ---
Someone in our organization works directly with the schools. They visit the schools to verify in person when important changes have been made. Some schools have like a press conference where many are invited. I have spoken mostly to recent graduates and I follow up after time expires (6 months,year etc.) although I don’t recall specifically from FFS any contact a year or later out because I have not had many there.
--- Quote --- I'm somewhat surprised more educational consultants haven't posted on this site more. It's unmoderated and anonymous after all. I know lots read this site but why more don't post is a mystery.
--- End quote ---
I am not sure why I am posting here. Just had a question or two I guess or a need to respond. I have always read here off and on to gather information on different places. You guys are always on top of problems surfacing in programs and many times are talking about it before we get a memo or email. It can be very draining posting here if you get a hostile group that goes after you as I have seen in the past.
One question I get the most from parents is why you refer to the schools as prisons and gulags with prison guards, abductions and detainees. On one hand the posters are screaming to be taken seriously and heard but on the other these terms turn the stories into a parody which is saying “Dont take us too seriously we are blowing off steam”. That has always been a big curiosity with me also. I don’t have an answer for them except it is just kids acting out their frustration. The anger is real but the stories may not be. So I tell them not to take the details literally.
Another surprise is that many here never heard about being emancipated. There is a lot of talk about kids should have the same rights as prisoners and getting a lawyer. Not sure where all that comes from. Seems to be a recurring theme.
I still need to respond to FemanonFatal (I like your name). I am getting tired but I will respond eventually.
psy:
--- Quote from: "KathyS" ---
--- Quote from: "psy" --- Well. If you can't answer the timeline in detail can you answer whether the information was directly from FFS or was it confirmed by secondary sources as I suggested (questions of current graduates (for example, have you asked recent graduates who have been out for a year or so whether not not duct tape was used, whether or not there were isolation rooms, whether or not the program required detailed sexual histories which were made public etc?).
--- End quote ---
Someone in our organization works directly with the schools. They visit the schools to verify in person when important changes have been made.
--- End quote ---
Well. The red cross verified the Jews were treated just dandy in Terezin. If it's possible to cover that up... I've seen first hand programs put up similar chirades for outsiders (parents on tours, etc). I can describe you in great detail exactly how the con is pulled (and chances are, unless you know exactly what to look for, you'll be taken in)
--- Quote ---Some schools have like a press conference where many are invited. I have spoken mostly to recent graduates and I follow up after time expires (6 months,year etc.) although I don’t recall specifically from FFS any contact a year or later out because I have not had many there.
--- End quote ---
Out of those you did speak to, did you ask about the specific allegations by Jon Martin and others. Keep in mind as i've said, that many kids will see the most horrific abuse as "therapy" (or at the very least, necessary) if they have no other concept of "therapy". This has been the case with the most abusive programs (such as WWASP or Straight). You must ask specific questions if you want to get to the truth.
How many said "the program saved my life"?
--- Quote ---I am not sure why I am posting here. Just had a question or two I guess or a need to respond. I have always read here off and on to gather information on different places. You guys are always on top of problems surfacing in programs and many times are talking about it before we get a memo or email. It can be very draining posting here if you get a hostile group that goes after you as I have seen in the past.
--- End quote ---
That is very true.
--- Quote ---One question I get the most from parents is why you refer to the schools as prisons and gulags with prison guards, abductions and detainees.
--- End quote ---
The theory is to stop using euphemisms. I don't particularly agree since it does sound extreme to parents, but who am I to judge. This site isn't just for parents. It's for anybody to have an open discussion on this issue. There are other sites more oriented towards parents (such as isaccorp.org).
The term "Gulag" is not used in ignorance either. If you've seen the amazon book bar that appears occasionally at the top of the screen, "The Gulag Archipelago" is in the rotation. Many here see parallels between the troubled teen industry and the Gulag system (imprisonment without trial for arbitrary reasons, forced confessions, no right to legal representation, arbitrary length of stay, no communication with the outside world, imprisonment for profit or personal agenda, etc...).
Similarly, the other terms are meant to more accurately describe the "program experience". It does sound extreme, but there are sound reasons behind it.
--- Quote ---On one hand the posters are screaming to be taken seriously and heard but on the other these terms turn the stories into a parody which is saying “Dont take us too seriously we are blowing off steam”. That has always been a big curiosity with me also. I don’t have an answer for them except it is just kids acting out their frustration. The anger is real but the stories may not be. So I tell them not to take the details literally.
--- End quote ---
But often the stories are real. While they might sound absurd or angry, the details are often corroborated by others. As you, yourself, said, this site is often on top of things when it comes to spotting abuses. While we're certainly not infallible, many of us have been in abusive programs and know what to look for.
--- Quote ---Another surprise is that many here never heard about being emancipated. There is a lot of talk about kids should have the same rights as prisoners and getting a lawyer. Not sure where all that comes from. Seems to be a recurring theme.
--- End quote ---
Well. The idea being that kids are human beings and not property. Many feel that if kids were given legal rights to due process or representation, they would not be totally in the hands of their parents who may very well be over-reacting, taken advantage of, conned, or abusive.
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