General Interest > Tacitus' Realm
Wow, obama is going to win
psy:
--- Quote from: "KathyS" ---
--- Quote from: "psy" ---Well. What do you think now about FFS (you might want to read Jon Martin's testimony first and compare it to the other before responding).
--- End quote ---
I think FFS has done a good job getting past this. Have you read FFS's response(s)? I have read both and visited the school and spoken to graduates. They responded well.
--- End quote ---
Yes. I've read their "we don't do that anymore" response, and it's my opinion based on past experience that it's a crock. "We don't do that anymore" is what they always say when they get caught.
What questions did you ask their graduates, specifically? Who referred you to those graduates (did the program suggest them, or did you find them)? Did you speak to critics such as Jon Martin?
Interview anybody on this myspace group of former FFS students?
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... =100103584
psy:
Just to put things in perspective: If somebody was convicted of or admitted to child abuse. Would you trust your child with them if they said "we don't do that anymore"? If they're low enough to stoop to child abuse, you really think they're above lying about it?
Come on. Would you feel comfortable sending your child there? Would you feel comfortable about the cut in communication then? We're not talking mild stuff here either. We're talking duct tape, kids wrapped in rugs, sexual stuff, etc... Think about it. It's OK to say you messed up.
Ursus:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
--- Quote from: "KathyS" ---
--- Quote from: "psy" ---Well. What do you think now about FFS (you might want to read Jon Martin's testimony first and compare it to the other before responding).
--- End quote ---
I think FFS has done a good job getting past this. Have you read FFS's response(s)? I have read both and visited the school and spoken to graduates. They responded well.
--- End quote ---
Yes. I've read their "we don't do that anymore" response, and it's my opinion based on past experience that it's a crock. "We don't do that anymore" is what they always say when they get caught.
What questions did you ask their graduates, specifically? Who referred you to those graduates (did the program suggest them, or did you find them)? Did you speak to critics such as Jon Martin?
Interview anybody on this myspace group of former FFS students?
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... =100103584
--- End quote ---
In light of some the things described in that afore-posted testimony, did you speak with graduates while they were at the school, or away, and if the latter, how long had it been since they had graduated?
FemanonFatal2.0:
--- Quote from: "KathyS" ---FemanonFatal, I am sorry to hear what you have gone thru. I can honestly tell you that I have never experienced that with anyone I have spoken to and maybe it is because I read extensively on schools, articles and fornits and have avoided places with a high risk associated with it.
I believe that abuse exists but I also believe that it is not systemic nor ingrained in the industry.
I believe regulation is on its way which will help weed out some of the wicked places which exist in all businesses, but unfortunately we are years away at best. Hopefully we can avoid sending kids to these places by raising awareness via getting the word out and talking about everyones experiences.
--- End quote ---
Ok, if what you are saying here is true, and I took the time to gather people you could speak to about these schools (both those who had bad and good experiences) would you consider our findings, and agree not to recommend the schools which we proved to be abusive? lets say, we did a survey, where we had at least 4 people that went to every WWASP school (or maybe Aspen) 2 of which expressed that they were grateful for their experience and 2 that were not satisfied and we asked them all the same exact questions. Based on their answers if there was a unanimous agreement that psychological and physical abuse existed and there were significant amounts of human rights violations "ingrained in the industry" would you stop referring to WWASP schools? futhermore would you require any school that you did recommend to essentially pass this test "with flying colors" before you would recommend it?
What I dont understand is why it is not in the job description of an Ed Con to do these kinds of investigations on a school before you put more children in danger. To tell you the truth, I am convinced that MANY of the schools that make up the troubled teen industry are corrupt and operate outside the boundries of the law and common ethics. I am not completely opposed to the idea that there are a few "good" programs but in my experience, since most of them are closely connected and created from similar program models and principals that those "good" schools are so few and far between that it would be a dangerous business to get into rerring programs. The only way I would consider a referral service to be doing their job is if their services were contingent on a rigorous investigation, a regulation (child protection) contract, and would need to employ ex-survivors who are against the abusive programs who are keen and able to spot the evidence of abuse and oppression. For instance, you need to provide that school with a contract that states that every student should be allowed to access a phone that will dial 911 or child protective services and or if they request private counsel they will be abliged that right indefinately. You will also need to find a way to enforce it, being that you should be in touch with the local law enforcement and district attorney and they need to be aware that this school is under regulation and requires their services to ensure that these children's rights are being protected. You also need to have surprise drop ins and access to have PRIVATE meetings with students OF ALL LEVELS and ask them very specific questions. I know this all sounds like a big job, but honestly it what you people SHOULD be doing in order to make SURE the kids in the schools you recommend are NOT being abused. I advise you to get a bunch of your Ed con buddies together and talk about what you really need to be doing to ensure the safety of the children you are referring, otherwise if I were you, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.
To tell you the truth, you people really should be on our side. We arent lying to you and you should heed our stories as warnings of what schools you need to avoid at all costs. If you people can grow the balls to take a stand against the evil you know exist in this industry then it will seize to exist because they wont have anyone to fill their schools. You people are really the key to saving these kids lives and rewarding the few programs that really are doing something right. If you and your people are willing to do something like this, let us know because I assure you that we will work WITH you to help you to weed out those programs you must stand against. I think if we all put our heads together we could write you a detailed list of the things in the programs that work and dont work and if you can find a school that employs more "working" practices then "non-working" practices then you will have found your winners.
Another thing, that bill to end institutionalized child abuse will make very little difference if YOU don't enforce it. The main problem is that unless there is a committee that is dedicated to physically regulating the programs on behalf of our government that piece of paper will make no difference besides giving parents a false sense of security.
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "psy" --- Yes. I've read their "we don't do that anymore" response, and it's my opinion based on past experience that it's a crock. "We don't do that anymore" is what they always say when they get caught.
--- End quote ---
I have been exposed to a little more than that. I have seen the detailed changes that took place from the top down. They have made many procedural changes since then.
--- Quote ---What questions did you ask their graduates, specifically? Who referred you to those graduates (did the program suggest them, or did you find them)? Did you speak to critics such as Jon Martin?
--- End quote ---
Some of them I knew going in and I had the pleasure of speaking to a few students after graduation. I don’t remember the exact questions.
--- Quote ---Interview anybody on this myspace group of former FFS students?
--- End quote ---
I didn’t recognize any of the names or faces.
--- Quote --- Just to put things in perspective: If somebody was convicted of or admitted to child abuse. Would you trust your child with them if they said "we don't do that anymore"? If they're low enough to stoop to child abuse, you really think they're above lying about it?
Come on. Would you feel comfortable sending your child there? Would you feel comfortable about the cut in communication then? We're not talking mild stuff here either. We're talking duct tape, kids wrapped in rugs, sexual stuff, etc... Think about it. It's OK to say you messed up.
--- End quote ---
On the surface I would not. But knowing what I do about the changes made, the amount of time that has passed to allow a cultural change to take effect I would easily allow a loved one to go. I take it from your tone that you do not trust that any changes have taken place. You have to consider that this was a long time ago (mid to late ‘90’s). A cultural change takes only a few years to take hold.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version