General Interest > Tacitus' Realm

Wow, obama is going to win

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Anonymous:
And yet, you “refer” to Family Foundation School, Aspen, and wwasp, facilities that abduct, imprison, and MURDER, and about which exist multitudes of sworn testimony describing systematic torture and thought reform.

And yet you purposely hide negative information about these organizations from perspective clients.


Why are you referring to gulags that have been proved by congress and beyond a reasonable doubt to be managed by individuals that abduct, imprison, and torture?

Have you read the 30 sworn testimonies about FFS?
Do you simply dismiss these?
Do you refer your clients to CAFETY to read the sworn statements you supposedly “believe”?

What about the kids victimized before the FFS finishes working out "their problems," which apparently was as recently as 2005?
 How long have you been referring to FFS?

 You started your repulsive word-vomit with saying people need to take responsibility for their actions.

Why aren't you protesting, demanding that the founders of FFS are jailed? Why don't you demand that Narvin Litchfield et al are jailed? Why instead, do you refer people to their gulags, thereby waltzing on the graves of children they've murdered, assisting them in avoiding responsibility for their actions?  Why aren't you doing your part to force these people to take responsibility for their actions by no longer enriching them via the bodies of the innocent?

Why, in fact, since you apparently were referring to wwasp and FFS, don't you take responsibility for YOURSELF and do some sort of pertinence to the children you've harmed, to the children who are now mentally crippled or dead because of YOU and your organization?

Why don't you head over to CAFETY and face John Crawford now, you cowardly, murderer? When will apologize to the child described below, you monster?



""Re: Lone Star Expeditions

by toolate on Yesterday, 07:42
This goes out to the girl who worked at LSE and supposedly met Matthew Meyer. Girl, you have no idea what you are talking about. Matthew suffered over 24 hours, was forced to walk in 115 to 130 heat index after getting lost by the navigator. When he managed to complete the last 200 yards, he collapsed on the ground. Staff member kept telling him to get up, then they through water on him and when they heard him "snoring" he was actually aspirating. But the staff just kept telling him to quit faking it. After 20 minutes, they finally looked at him and realized he was dying.

The night before he was stumbling and mumbling around and said his legs felt numb. Through a radio call, the psychologist on staff said it was an anxiety attack and never went and looked at him.

Also, you idiot, his heart was just fine. It took over a month to get the autopsy report back, so you had no idea what you were talking about. You need to keep your mouth shut until you know the truth.

I know the truth and you can take that to the bank."""

Anonymous:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16713&p=209023&hilit=ironwood#p209023

Here's some info on one of the places K refferred to^^^

is this where you work Kathy?
http://www.parentteenguide.com/form.htm ... y=resource

FemanonFatal2.0:
To Fornits,
Honestly, to those of you who have decided to talk down to Kathy, you should realize it does no good. You wont be able to change her mind by insinuating that shes stupid or evil, or a troll. All you can do is hope that after all the effort you guys have put into this thread, is that she may (in her own time) realize that she has been viewing the issues in a limited perspective, and let her find her own way. The more you accuse her the more excuses she will be forced to make up to defend her honor and the less she will be able to trust us. She wants to believe she is doing the right thing and as long as you attack her motives she will focus on proving you wrong instead of listening to what we have to say. To those of you who think Psy and I have kissed her ass you fail to see the point, I just don't think there will be any progress in a conversation that consists of back and forth bantering. Try to tell her your opinion on the issues instead of attacking her personally. I have a feeling she is at least open minded to the reasons we feel strongly about this subject but instead of explaining those reasons we have simply assumed shes a bad person because she doesn't know what we know. I know its sometimes hard to be nice, and you don't have to be, but maybe we can strive for a productive conversation instead of an argument.

To Kathy:
I may HIGHLY disagree with your views on the language issue, as I have mentioned before I believe these words like, "torture" and "private prison" are reasonably descriptive words that hold great significance to this subject. However, I do agree that most parents, especially those who are in "desperate" mode and want to place their child are unwilling to be receptive to these words. But I don't think the problem lies with our language, its of the judgments and stigma that those who are advocating the former victims of institutionalized child abuse receive. Our very character has been slandered by the troubled teen industry time and time again, and the same techniques that were used on our parents when we were in the program is still perpetrated through their sources to say we are still "manipulators". Here's the thing, I know your people may not consider our sources credible, as in I have heard you discredit many of the anti program sites, including Fornits but what you must understand is there is a great difference in motive here for the two sides of the issue. For one, we are pissed and rightfully so, You can't tell me you wouldn't be hostile toward a group of people who physically and mentally tormented you in your younger years. Second, we aren't selling anything, we aren't getting paid for our efforts here and we prefer to keep it that way on a matter of moral conscious. Third we don't have lots of money to spend on this effort and most of us are struggling in life and have a hard time devoting the time it would take to build an organization that would be able to project some fancy image of credibility in order to sell the parents our ideals. Right now, all you've got is feedback from those who have been through these experiences and have cause to warn others against it. Why thats not enough for you is just beyond me, but considering the circumstances I think we have done an amazing job. We still have a ways to go, and we are working on better ways to communicate with parents and the general public, but our delivery has very little to do with the fact that what we are saying is TRUE and what we have been through was a HORRIBLE life altering experience and we deserve credit and respect for simply having the courage to stand up and speak and especially because we do this to save people from going through what we did. I don't understand why it's so common for survivors to be insulted and discredited by Pro-programmers and Ed-Cons, because unlike them, we have nothing to gain from this besides peace of mind.

Why is it wrong of us to demand that children's welfare and rights be protected in programs? The only reason someone would be against that idea is if  that person stood to loose the money by implementing these ideals where they previously saved money by cutting these corners. I strongly believe that referral companies and accreditation organizations should be taking what we have to say very seriously and should have every reason to call for the same reform. The fact that they don't only signifies the abundance of corruption that is rampant in this industry and that is precisely why we are not selective in our views on "who's responsible" for these crimes against these children. You all are, from the staff member who abused the kid to the Ed-Con agency who referred the family. If none of them are willing to wake up and realize its their responsibility to make sure that doesn't happen again than they will soon be exposed as an accessory to child abuse. I hope for your sake Kathy that by then you have moved on to a career that is more morally fulfilling. The problem is that the only reason these people continue to get away with theses indecent acts against children is because they are able to afford to pay referral agencies, accreditation organizations and most times procure the services of a company that provides a "brainwashing" service for their clients (seminars). These separate agencies help divert any responsibility on the facility or its staff members to actually provide adequate care, when they have such strong marketing they don't feel the need to prove themselves with a quality service, especially when society has created such a demand for them.

Much of the blame falls on the media for perpetrating such a trend to even exist but I still cant fathom how a parent would ever agree to send their child away and agree for some unknown group of people to raise them instead. Why is this even an option? For centuries teens have been crossing the boundaries of their parents control and that's as natural as a morning sunrise. Even knowing that some are worse than others doesnt excuse these parents from their duty to do their best to raise their own children. Part of the problem here is that in this day and age people are willing to buy into any marketing strategy as long it can make their lives easier but there isn't anything about raising kids that is easy, and just because you have enough money to spend on a fancy boarding school doesn't mean its acceptable to skirt that responsibility. These parents aren't desperate, they are stressed because life is hard and having kids is hard and getting a loved one through a tough stage in their life is not easy... and they are looking for a way to make all of that a hell of a lot easier.

Most teens don't need help, very few actually do. Some are probably doomed but very very few actually need any kind of "treatment" especially as teens. Their misbehavior is simply a part of learning the lessons that life will teach us and by locking them up you are only setting that natural process on hold. They may pick up a few tools from the program, like how to fake it till you make it (lol yes, an actual "lesson" taught at casa) but the damage done by simply throwing a wrench in their natural process does far more harm than it would if they were given the proper time and support to mature out of the teenage phase. Those who would benefit from residential treatment deserve a completely different approach in care than the "tough love" programs are able to provide. For instance children with ADD and other personality disorders have special needs in education and learning proper social skills yet these programs are structured to simply punish these children for their nature. The "tough love" program has got their whole process backwards and if there is to be any truly rehabilitating program it must be comprised of a completely different system.

As I have said before, Kathy my problem is not with you specifically but with the industry as a whole, as well a society who would bypass all moral reason to make these practices commonly accepted. My personal opinion is that things CAN be changed, and if those responsible were willing to do the right thing a standard for the future could be set and followed. However the battle we are fighting is convincing those who have the power to stop making excuses and covering up the truth and start committing to providing adequate care, and above all ensure the welfare of the children in their care. Until this is achieved we will have no choice but to oppose the industry as a whole and all of the separate agencies that blindly support the troubled teen industry. Just like it is close to impossible to weed out the good programs from the bad without the money, time and manpower invested in a proper investigation process, it is impossible for me to say that there are any referral agencies that are "good" despite the fact that your firm has made some judgments against a number of programs doesn't mean that I am willing to believe your firm doesn't refer to any programs that abuse kids, I guess the FFS reference proves that you actually do. So all I can recommend is that you suggest an investigation in FFS... so that if there are issues here they can have a shot at figuring them out. And in principal, as an Ed Con it is your job to read the accounts of former students of the programs you refer, and despite the language take their claims seriously before you refer another child to the same "treatment". I actually applaud you for considering this, it is something I assume is rare in your line of work and as sad as that is, I am thankful that someone is willing to at least listen to "our side" of the story for once.

Thank You and Good Night

Anonymous:
To fornits,
You are continuously trolled by the entity known as TheWho. Since you are too gullible to figure this out, you waste your time having a "discussion" with an entity whose only goal is to waste your time and make you frustrated and make long rebuttals while they laugh at you. Your belief that you are going to change the industry by engaging with trolls is laughable.

Thank you and good night.

Anonymous:
I think the words we choose are very important.  If you communicate to a parent with : “What the $@#% is wrong with you?  Why are you going to have your kid kidnapped and shipped off to some #@%#ing gulag because you lack parenting skills”  This places the focus on yourself, not on the message you are trying to convey.  They will be thinking “Wow this person is really angry”, “Probably a drug addict just like my kids friends”.  You are the last person they will consider taking advice from plus they are not even thinking about escorting their kid because you moved the focus of the conversation from escorts onto yourself.  So you changed the subject without knowing it.  So they leave with the same impression of escort services as they came in with.
If you said something like “Why would you consider something like this?  Did you consider that when your child is woken up in the middle of the night and taken away by strangers it could be the most frightening time of their life and they will know that the person they trust the most in the world is paying for it to be done to them.  You may know where they are going, but your child doesnt trust anything you say now, so they will not trust that they will be safe.  This could further destroy the relationship and trust between you that is left.   Trust and safety is the foundation of every happy family, please consider not destroying that bond.”
This way you don’t have to use escort or kidnapping as Michael had mentioned earlier.  If there were more time the shock value of gulag, prisons, holocaust etc. would work because eventually the parents would wonder why you are so angry and start asking questions and maybe realize that the program made you angry or the way their parents acted, but for the few minutes that some parents spend here all they will see and hear is an angry kid, which is the last thing they need because they already have one at home.

Femanon fatal, We see this industry from opposite sides and different experiences but I do see we have a small piece of common ground and agree with you on some level.  
From what I have read here and our conversations I have reconsidered and I have decided to submit an “RFR Level 1” on FFS, which is a Request for Review.  Level one is considering the status of an entire program.  After I submit it I will need to defend my reasoning for submittal.  This is the first step to having a program placed onto the “do not refer list”.  My boss told me he will not sign it so I am looking for someone to approve it so it can be submitted.

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