General Interest > Tacitus' Realm
Wow, obama is going to win
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---I've just invented a product. It's a secret recepie that only I know. It cures all illnesses. Now I will market it as 97% sucessfull. It's highly addictive and just might kill you, but those who it works for... they swear by it!
Point being that you're reversing the burden of proof. In order to advertise something as working, it actually has to work. Most of the staff at these places are unqualified and most of the "therapy" amounts to cult-derived quackery. Like snake oil, it's some powerful shit... but it doesn't necessarily mean it's helpful. It just means it's popular, which can be for all sorts of reasons, such as an illusion of efficacy.
Do parents ask you about effectiveness? What do you say?
--- End quote ---
No I am not reversing any proof. Parents ask me about the effectiveness and I give them information on individual schools or programs. I tell them that the key is find a program which is a good match. Which is one of the keys to success. I really believe many of the kids here who had a bad experience were placed in the wrong program. If they had the advantages and information we have today they might not be here complaining about how poorly they did. Many kids have problems with authority and if you match them up with the wrong program it could be trouble for them as an example.
--- Quote ---@Guest: Please stop posting those FFS testimonials over and over again. We get the point, but it interferes with dialogue and Kathy is unlikely to care since she refers there and has already implied she sees such testimonial as untruthful and/or biased.
Why not ask her a question instead, such as "how do you dismiss all these allegations of abuse when they all describe similar occurrences?"
--- End quote ---
I have read most of them. I don’t dismiss them. Most of the problems have been resolved or are being worked on, I could sit and post success stories all day long on fornits but I don’t think it would change your minds either. I think they would be dismissed out of hand.
I don’t represent other educational consultants here with my views, just myself.
There is a football party in the other room. I am being called in, probably to make a dip LOL. I will check back in awhile.
psy:
--- Quote from: "KathyS" ---Its a learned language that is taught here.
--- End quote ---
That is true, and one reason why I don't use those terms. Even so, what they described when first coming here, regardless of descriptive language used, remains constant.
--- Quote ---Look at some of the regulars early posts and then the way they speak now.
--- End quote ---
And me?
--- Quote ---
--- Quote --- Well. I've never met a parent whose first stop has been Fornits or any other forum allowing criticism of the industry. It's a matter of search keywords. Google "troubled teen" and see how many critical site you find. A parent doesn't end up on Fornits unless they have already contacted an ed-con, is considering a particular school, and has googled that particular school.
--- End quote ---
You avoid my question.
--- End quote ---
I did? Your question was a two parter "Why wouldn’t you recommend that parents visit strugglingteens.com so that they can see both sides of the issue? You told me that they already have this information, but how do you know?"
Part 1, why wouldnt I? because they've already seen other sites. Part 2: how do I know that? see above. I've never seen an exception to that. I wish I could intercept parents earlier, but the "troubled teen" keyword is proving elusive. In that hypothetical case, I would probably recommend parents reseach the other side, but I would not refer to any particular site as it would violate my no-referrals policy (conflict of interest, among other reasons... I can elaborate if you wish.).
--- Quote ---
--- Quote --- That question is leading. See my point above on the effectiveness of residential treatment.
--- End quote ---
Avoided another.
--- End quote ---
Your question was leading. "Doesnt it ever bother you that a parent may come onto fornits and decide not to get help for their child and that child and family would suffer because of it?" includes the words "would suffer". Implied is that if a parent decides not to place, they and their child will suffer. I do not agree that would happen if a parent did not place (other than would naturally) and thus it could not possibly bother me. That's why your question was leading, and why I referred back to the effectiveness.
--- Quote ---
--- Quote --- Yes, i'm aware of that. All that proves shows to me is that parents cant just look at watchlists or one organization to consider a program "safe".
--- End quote ---
Yes, the word “bad” or “Good” is very subjective each person or website has their own interpretation and they may be wrong. I remember a certain person jumping down my throat for not referring parents to isaccorp. A parent reviewing isaccorp would find it safe to send their child to FFS
--- End quote ---
Not true. ISAC is quite clear that the industry as a whole is not safe and quite clear that just because a program is not on their watchlist does not make it safe. Otherwise they woudn't need the "warning signs" and so forth to give further advice.
--- Quote ---where fornits describes it as the worse place on the face of this planet.
--- End quote ---
If it's really that much of a big deal to you, I can call up Shelby Earnshaw and work with her to get FFS on their watchlist. Jon's testimony and another sworn statement corroborating it might be enough to do the trick (I'd have to check with Shelby and see what the deal is with that)
--- Quote ---That is why parents seek out Educational Consultants (as they should) to guide them thru this mess.
--- End quote ---
Or into danger. You already admitted that it's impossible for a parent to know if an educational consultant is taking referral fees (kickbacks).
--- Quote ---The better schools and programs will survive. My boss says a few good mom and pop places will be lost. But in a bad economy it cant be helped. Maybe they can get some of the bail out money.
--- End quote ---
I thought you were opposed to such goverment interference or aid? I mean... you start out on the thread talking about accountability and responsibility, yet you want government welfare for programs? All hail the nanny state! (where it's convenient)
--- Quote ---Michael we are on opposite sides of the fence on this issue. The only difference is I am open to the people I talk to and provide information from both sides. You tend to think you have all the answers so you withold info which goes against your thinking.
--- End quote ---
I am open to both sides of the issue but I have had the unique experience of actually being in a program. That's one thing you don't have and never could. I don't have all the answers, but I have looked at both sides and come to my own conclusion. Whether information in the future might shift that conclusion, I can't say. I'm not a fortune teller, but I find it unlikely. I also don't withhold information from parents as you allege.
--- Quote ---I have met educational consultants who believe, like yourself, that parents should only be given filtered information which will persuade them to have their child placed.
--- End quote ---
But that's precisely what you did with Marcy. Need we go over that again. You sent her to a few select websites (with a referral code!), attempted to scare her off fornits by implying her identity was not secure, and invited her to an "open discussion" group which, you've demonstrated is not really that open at all. You also admitted that you do not refer to ISACcorp because they have schools on their watchlist that you refer to.
I encourage parents to do their own research, but I do not refer them to specific sites. Is no me job. It's your job. What you're paid for. I'm not paid at all, and in order for parents to trust me, I can't be sending them to specific commercial (not purely informational) sites. I could be getting paid for such referrals. How would a parent know?
If you want to create a pro-industry site that is purely informational, advertises for no programs, and refers to no ed-cons. I'll refer parents there to see the "other side". Until then, I give them my "anti-sales-pitch" and encourage them to research the other side for themselves (which they, in my experience, have already seen).
There are all sorts of issues besides just that one as to why I don't refer parents to pro-industry sites. There are legal liability issues, for instance, such as under the lanham act, where I could be sued for unfair competition (criticising one school while referring to a competitor or competing service).
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "KathyS" ---
--- Quote from: "psy" ---I've just invented a product. It's a secret recepie that only I know. It cures all illnesses. Now I will market it as 97% sucessfull. It's highly addictive and just might kill you, but those who it works for... they swear by it!
Point being that you're reversing the burden of proof. In order to advertise something as working, it actually has to work. Most of the staff at these places are unqualified and most of the "therapy" amounts to cult-derived quackery. Like snake oil, it's some powerful shit... but it doesn't necessarily mean it's helpful. It just means it's popular, which can be for all sorts of reasons, such as an illusion of efficacy.
Do parents ask you about effectiveness? What do you say?
--- End quote ---
No I am not reversing any proof. Parents ask me about the effectiveness and I give them information on individual schools or programs. I tell them that the key is find a program which is a good match. Which is one of the keys to success. I really believe many of the kids here who had a bad experience were placed in the wrong program. If they had the advantages and information we have today they might not be here complaining about how poorly they did. Many kids have problems with authority and if you match them up with the wrong program it could be trouble for them as an example.
--- Quote ---@Guest: Please stop posting those FFS testimonials over and over again. We get the point, but it interferes with dialogue and Kathy is unlikely to care since she refers there and has already implied she sees such testimonial as untruthful and/or biased.
Why not ask her a question instead, such as "how do you dismiss all these allegations of abuse when they all describe similar occurrences?"
--- End quote ---
I have read most of them. I don’t dismiss them. Most of the problems have been resolved or are being worked on, I could sit and post success stories all day long on fornits but I don’t think it would change your minds either. I think they would be dismissed out of hand.
I don’t represent other educational consultants here with my views, just myself.
There is a football party in the other room. I am being called in, probably to make a dip LOL. I will check back in awhile.
--- End quote ---
Acutally, human-trafficer, you could not post "sword testimonies" from survivor about how great FFS is all day. As JC said, even the sucessfully brainwashed kids, under questioning assented that FFS tortured kids.
i have noticed you have not taken JC's invitatin to post at CAFETY where people expert on FFS could respond to your BS claims with more knowledge than can we. Why aim more negative attention at Family Foundation School cultic-gulag, right?
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "psy" --- @ Guest can you please stop posting survivor testimony from FFS. Kathy has said she doesn't beleive it, and it interferes with the discussion
--- End quote ---
There’s no discussion to be had.
This entity doesn’t “understand” the diff between parents asking their kids to help do the dishes and an institution that forces its "patient"-prisoners to do all the maintenance for the institution while being forced to run in place, on pain of beatings, manhandling, peer denunciation, extended imprisonment, isolation, being wrapped in a blanket until one’s eyes “pop out,” and otherwise tortured until they break and concede to forced labor, the same way as prisoners of Thought Reform Prisons or Gulags broke and conceded.
This entity earns money from human trafficking. It deliberately exposes kids to systematic psychological and physical torture with a near identical paradigm to the Thought Reform prisons of Asia.
Do you really think you are going to get to the place where this entity will say, “Oh, hey. Well I have read dozens of accounts of systematic torture at FFS resulting in its innocent victims being physiologically damaged for years if not their entire lives and that don’t bother me. Tony & Betty Argiros are working on their issues, BUT that’s GREAT analogy you just made…Maybe I should change my ways.”
Hey, KathS, what about taking personal responsibility? Why should not Tony and Betty Argriros be in prison, right now, instead of working on their issues?
Tell you what. What's your name? Let's start there. Something tells me you know deep down your behavior is abhorant and don't want it linked ot your name.
Psy, This entity is Who2 here for damage control, or for some weird emotional need for self justification.
Why don’t you do some good and bring up the info on Aspen Education and other places it mentioned instead of serving its perverted desires?
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
--- Quote from: "KathyS" ---Its a learned language that is taught here.
--- End quote ---
That is true, and one reason why I don't use those terms. Even so, what they described when first coming here, regardless of descriptive language used, remains constant.
.
--- End quote ---
Actually, bitch, youre the one speaking the "learned Language." Your words "intervention" instead of imprisonment, "escort" instead of kidnappers, "school" instead of gulag or internement camp are deliberate constructs of your Synannon forebearers who applied euphanisms to their trade to hide their actuality.
I'm not going to post the defintions of gulag, torture, again. You've made it clear. You are going with your personal defition on these words. You chose to call a man forcefully inserting his penis into child's vagina "class," I chose its English term "rape." I chose represetnational reality and truth over your kafka-esque NIGHTMARE.
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