Why spend a year in a program when it can be done in a week

[Ursus]

@ Ursus, Sorry I got overly emotional with my response. I was thinking of another post at the same time I was responding to yours so the energy flowed over into yours. I understand what you are saying.

No prob.

Although...and no offense intended by this, but...sometimes it really does seem as though more than one person may be posting as "TheWho."

[Ursus]

It would also be nice for rape victims to take accountability for their actions.

GOOD point!! All these programs preach that you're basically responsible for anything and everything that ever happens to you.

Now, where have I heard that before?

"Responsibility begins with the willingness to be

cause in the matter of one's life."

-- Werner Erhard

http://wernererhardandest.wordpress.com ... rd-on-est/[/list]

[Anonymous]

This is not the TheWho sending TheWho questions.

The interesting thing about this serie is that there is no therapy done in those programs by professionals.

You apparently have never attended or had someone you know attend a program.  They have licensed professionals who conduct the therapy for those who require it.  These therapists keep in constant contact with the childs therapist at home.

I think that you are avoiding my question.

No, I have never attended a program but I have seen this show this thread is about. In the show you average but spoiled teenagers or young adults to foreign countries for a week. Countries most people would not visit due to the risk of being killed in a civil war or abducted but with some 100+ filmcrew and security it can be done.

When arrived the teenager is teamed up with a teen of their own gender and age. They experiense life as it is. Because we are talking Kenya, India and Peru there are no cellphones, no running water etc. One of the girls did even get sick due to the attitude, something that could have killed her.

The point is that the teenager return home somehow behavior modified AFTER A WEEK!

Can you explain that when we are talking no therapy?

The youth are sent out and meet someone of their own age and get inside knowledge about who life is for this foreign youth.

?

Look at the videos.

It is almost like wilderness therapy without the therapists.

I guess some places can be this way, depends on what the child needs and the wishes of the parents and childs therapists.  Each program is a little different.

Then if you have to decide what is the most important then what is it? The childs need or the wishes of the therapist and the parents of the child.

I know that there can be a potential conflict there. After all some are in it for the money.

But somehow the exiled youth change from inside. Can you explain the sudden drive those youth get from talking with youth from another culture?

The only natural way to change is from the inside.  This is what makes the better programs so successful.  Some children respond from interacting with successful peers, so this is also used.
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Then why is it not used in a greater scale?

Such a well-known place like ASR has even stopped sending kids abroad. Why?

[TheWho]

It would also be nice for rape victims to take accountability for their actions.

Sorry Dish, I know where you are going with this and I just don’t buy into that whole argument and cant agree with you here on any level.  I agree that some women dress far too provocatively for their own good and indulge in risky behavior but a person should never be responsible for the aggressions against them by another person.  Society needs to draw the line and send a clear message to violators of rape and date rape.  There should be mandatory prison time for everyone who crosses this line and an education plan put into place to insure that all levels of society as a whole understand these definitions.



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[Anonymous]

It would also be nice for rape victims to take accountability for their actions.

Sorry Dish, I know where you are going with this and I just don’t buy into that whole argument and cant agree with you here on any level.  I agree that some women dress far too provocatively for their own good and indulge in risky behavior but a person should never be responsible for the aggressions against them by another person.  Society needs to draw the line and send a clear message to violators of rape and date rape.  There should be mandatory prison time for everyone who crosses this line and an education plan put into place to insure that all levels of society as a whole understand these definitions.

You are missing the point, Who. In program, kids are taught differently. They are taught that victims are responsible for everything that happens to them, including rape. This is especially true of kids who are raped in program.

Where's the "mandatory prison time" for THOSE perps? At worst, they go on to "counsel" elsewhere. Not enough duct tape for ya?

[TheWho]

You are missing the point, Who. In program, kids are taught differently. They are taught that victims are responsible for everything that happens to them, including rape. This is especially true of kids who are raped in program.

These are the types of programs we should be trying to get parents to avoid.  If we can get parents to speak to other parents who had kids attend, speak to the admissions people and random kids on campus these types of place could be avoided.

Where's the "mandatory prison time" for THOSE perps? At worst, they go on to "counsel" elsewhere.

We are hoping that regulation and transparency will help to better solve this.

Not enough duct tape for ya?

Ha,Ha,Ha you have been here for awhile!!  Remember that guy who claimed he was duct taped from head to toe and then carried down to the ocean during a monsoon and thrown in!!!  Talk about trying to get attention.  Looking back now I think if he toned his story down a little and told us he was forced to carry wood around or study for hours on end he would have got a few people to believe him.  But I do think that is the overall classic fabricated story I have heard here.



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[Anonymous]

Geez Louise, Who, now you're calling me names!? Dick, prick...that's some pretty mean-spirited language there... I'll try to see a back-handed compliment in all that somehow.
 

See?  You always criticize the survivors for being "overly sensitive" and look at the example of "balanced" you present.  Pathetic.  Ursus could have called you a most pungent cunt and rightly so but he took the high road while you took the lowest of dirt trails.

Then there was the whining plea for pity:

@ Ursus, Sorry I got overly emotional with my response.  I was thinking of another post at the same time I was responding to yours so the energy flowed over into yours.  I understand what you are saying.
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No you don't.  Lying slunk trader.   If you did you would have stayed gone the first time you gave your worthless promise to f-f-f-fade away.  As Ursus notes you are given to rapid mood shifts and violent outbursts that make you look like a schizo freak.  At least Ursus is diplomatic and refrained from calling you an A1 nutboy who should never been allowed to exercise the "parental choice" that landed your kid in ASR. (If that isn't just another lie)  You shouldn't be allowed to make decisions for yourself.  Get treatment.

Although...and no offense intended by this, but...sometimes it really does seem as though more than one person may be posting as "TheWho."

I know a good boot camp for adults.  We'll sign custody of you over to the program.  They'll break you down, humiliate you, over medicate you. Some counselor without a GED will beat you shitless because you remind him of the assholes who caused him to drop out in ninth grade.  Tough love is what you need Who.  You want workin' on, boy.

[Anonymous]

Although...and no offense intended by this, but...sometimes it really does seem as though more than one person may be posting as "TheWho."

THERE's a thought!  Maybe TheWho is mostly one person, but wifey or assoc. fills in to repair blunders.  Might explain that schizo freak behaviour.

[dishdutyfugitive]

While my statement was intentionally loaded - the emphasis was on 'it would be nice' - and not on 'rape'.

I was responding to the notion that 'it would be nice' if Fornit's evolved into some edgy version of 'Struggling turds'.

On 2nd thought - I'm all for it. After we lobotomize Fornits we move on to the Olympics. Think of how nice it would be. During the opening ceremony it would be swell if every country played a slightly modified version of the Star Spangled Banner as they introduced their athletes. Yes, that would be very nice.

then I'll call Maynard from Tool and convince him to change his tune to something more amenable...perhaps Mariah Carey or Michael Bolton.

[Anonymous]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr47O5OjC_A

Speaking of duct tape, during a congressional hearing under oath, this person testifies that duct tape was regularly used to restrain students. This quote happens 2:20 into the video.

I can't even imagine what type of person trolls people telling their testimony of abuse, it's almost unimaginable to me that such a disturbed person would exist. Yet here one is, claiming to be a program parent. That would make sense, since I've seen program parents do abusive things, and pay to have abusive things done to their child.

This is good that TheWho is posting truthfully about how he finds abuse funny, as sad and disturbing as it may be, it's the only way to show how program parents really are. Sure, some might be ignorant. But most, like TheWho, are sociopathic sadists with the money to implement their demented fantasies.

[Anonymous]

From the front page of cafety,

“My therapist stood behind me and whispered things about my rape, while playing the song I was raped to, for 4 consecutive groups sessions…”

Now I wonder how much her parents paid for that cutting-edge therapy... 4k a month? 5k? 6k?

[TheWho]

From the front page of cafety,

“My therapist stood behind me and whispered things about my rape, while playing the song I was raped to, for 4 consecutive groups sessions…”

Now I wonder how much her parents paid for that cutting-edge therapy... 4k a month? 5k? 6k?

An HLA staff mentioned recently here on fornits that about 50% of what kids say about their experience inside a program is "not true".  I wonder which category this falls into.



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[Anonymous]

I wouldn't expect anything less of TheWho. Most program parents consider their child liars, and so naturally they believe all adolescents are habitual liars. They choose to believe what a program staff says over their family member. Again, TheWho proves himself as the typical program parent, ignorant of what really goes on in programs, believing whatever a program staff tells them.

The person who submitted their story, and from which this quote was taken, had been out of the program with no incentive to make such a story up. Yet the parental financiers of the experimental and abusive "therapy" jump through mental hoops of self delusion to maintain their self congratulatory ignorance. Sadly, this is all too common, so leaving home and never contacting the family again is a understandable reaction. After several years, or decades, a few of the more enlightened parents begin to realize their kid was not lying. I'm going to guess TheWho is not a part of that group. He's a lifer.

[Anonymous]

From the front page of cafety,

“My therapist stood behind me and whispered things about my rape, while playing the song I was raped to, for 4 consecutive groups sessions…”

Now I wonder how much her parents paid for that cutting-edge therapy... 4k a month? 5k? 6k?

An HLA staff mentioned recently here on fornits that about 50% of what kids say about their experience inside a program is "not true".  I wonder which category this falls into.



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Hmmm.  Who is a more credible individual:  Kat Whitehead or theWho?  Yeah.

A survivor could post that 50% of what programs tell parents is lies to cover their asses from liability. You would challenge that statement and demand proof.  Yet this staff makes an opinionated statement with nothing to back it and you use it to question a program survivor's credibility?  

I'd like to mention that 99% of what theWho posts about programs is "not true".  I know this.  It is a fact.  I wonder where the 1% of truth is.

[TheWho]

A survivor could post that 50% of what programs tell parents is lies to cover their asses from liability. You would challenge that statement and demand proof. Yet this staff makes an opinionated statement with nothing to back it and you use it to question a program survivor's credibility?

 It is from a staff person who has left HLA and has moved on.

So, anyway, we have children who are being held accountable maybe for the first time in their lives.  Forced to do chores, homework, clean up after themselves, eat healthy, take a shower, go to bed the same time every night.  Do you think they will call home and tell their parents the school is abusive?  People are not being fair?  They don’t feed me? Of course.  
So, If you have to choose which person is more apt in this situation to tell the truth would it be a staff person who works with these kids 40+ hours a week or a kid who is desperate to get the hell out of there?  

The desperate kid or the program staff?

I don’t think this would make it too far down the debate path once we weigh credibility of statements.



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