HLA Ridge Creek Interview

[Che Gookin]

The fellow who I interviewed via private message on facebook contacted me after he spotted one of my more scathing posts on the Three Springs group. The interview more or less has concluded itself and while I had hoped to get more information the amount collected is none the less quite interesting. I'm still nailing down a few details regarding some of the information he gave me, but here is the rough material.

Him:

i would very much like to have an oppurtunity to share some of my observations and experiences with someone that is interested in what i have to say. I attended multiple long term residential treatment centers and have come to find that all of them are now in some kind of litigation which i am dedicated to helping with only if all i get out of it is the oppurtunity to prevent other ppl from making the same mistake as my parents.

August 6 at 12:56am
What programs were you incarcerated at and how did you find me?

him:

August 6 at 7:20am
Report Messagei was in three springs in tennessee and i was also in Hidden lake academy which is currently in the middle of a huge class action lawsuit. I was additionally in a sister program to hidden lake called ridge creek. i found you on the three springs board.

August 6 at 10:10am
Very interesting, would you care to be interviewed for the purpose of having an article written for a public blog?

Him:

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August 6 at 10:59am
Report Messagethat should not be a problem what kind of public blog? what exactly is a public blog

August 6 at 11:05am
Sort of an online newspaper. I've done this style of interview before, your name will not be mentioned.

August 10 at 7:22am
Hey,

If you don't want to be interviewed for a public blog that is fine. I won't hold any hard feelings about it. But I'd dearly like to know about Ridge Creek. I know Len Buttocellio opened that one up to keep HLA afloat as they were suffering so much in lost revenue.

Can you tell me what Ridge Creek was like?

him:

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August 10 at 9:09am
Report Messagemost certainly. I do not have any reservations about being interviewed for the blog. just curious i guess. I was in the first group to ever complete Ridge Creek one of my comrades that attended that group has now passed RIP. also When i went through ridge creek we were fed poorly the housing was non exsistent we had lights powered by a gas generator and no heat or running water. although the location where they housed us was within a stones throw from the main campus. I was physically assaulted on two occasions while at ridge creek. The staff were un-trained to deal with kids PERIOD. US ARMY RANGERS and DELTA FORCE OPERATORS are not supposed to be supervising and rehabilitating children they are trained kiling machines and the combination of unruly youths and their hardened personalities did not work well in the least. want to know more details? I guess more specific questions would be helpful seeing as how i could go on and on and on but id like to get you the exact info your readers are looking for. just let me know.

August 10 at 12:56pm
ok.. hmm well how about I give you three questions at a time to answer?


1) When did you attend?

2) How did your parents find out about HLA/Ridge Creek?

3) Were you part of the decision making process to attend HLA/Ridge Creek?

him:
 

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August 10 at 2:04pm
Report Message1) I was first admitted to HLA on the 17th of august 2000. I attended this school through march. at that time i was transferred to another program called suws in north carolina. After five weeks in the woods with no running water toilets showers etc or perishable food, we lived on rice lentils and oatmeal. I was then returned to HLA. The five week stay was a punishment imposed on me by HLA for not adhering to their rules. This was supposed to make me straighten up and fly right when in reality the worsened "physical conditioons" Were a welcome change to the harsh Psycholgical torment at HLA. Uppon returning to HLA i continued to act out and withinn 4 weeks was sent off to ne one of the first groups through Ridge Creek. I was in the top oof my class with all of my physical tests and coursework as well i actually taught one of the head RANGERS how to construct and properly use a bow-drill. something he said he had wanted to learn for a long time( a skill i picked up in north carolina where not only did we not have toilets but we had no matches either we started our fires by smacking rocks together or by rubbing sticks).I was in m y third week of ridge creek which by chance put me just into the month of may at which point HLA informed my parents that they were basically expelling me from the school but would be keeping my tuition for that quarter LIKE 8 GRAND! even though they had told my parents only days before that under no circumstances would i be kicked out. After i left HLA i was sent to a completely different program that was in tennessee called THREE SPRINGS.

2) my parents searched online and found the boarding school in georgia. SUWS, Ridge Creek, and Three Springs were all at the suggestion of HLA they did offer more severe lock down type institutions but my parents did their research and turned some options down.

3) Unfortunately no I was woken up by Escorts from an agency of gun and restraint toting meatheads that takes kids from their homes and escort them all over the country all their expenses are paid by your family and they charge something like 5 grand per day of escort service. i was escorted from my home in minnesota to georgia, then from georgia to north carolina, then from north carolina to georgia, and once more from georgia to tennesee. I was allowed to leave tennessee for the first time after being there for six months i made my first trip home in a year and i ran. After being on the run awhile my family agreed they would not attempt to send me anywhere again if i just returned home.

 

August 10 at 2:07pm
1) Could you run through the daily routine of Ridge Creek?

2) What one thing stands out the most in your memory about your first day there at Ridge Creek?

3) Could you describe the intake process at Ridge Creek?

him:

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August 10 at 2:26pm
Report Messagerise time was 0600 we would report to PT where we were subjected to 2 hours of a rigorous Physical Training regimen one that included a number of millitary drills for strength building. We would also run daily any time we were moving from place to place we were running or moving with a sense of Urgency as they called it. Throughout the day we spent hours training on a number of different topics ranging from first aid to leadership techniques and orienteering knot tying etc etc. We also constructed parts of the campus now probably in use by current students. I.E. The workout stations students now stop to do pull ups and dips at while on their morning runs we also cleared al large portion of wooded area for the construction of a ropes course climbing tower and a leadership activity course they were supposed to be buil;ding. but some days they would just have us line up at the woodpile and move it twenty five feet then back thatw as always shitty. they wanted us to move a three hundred foot long woodpile that was 4 feet high 25 feet and then move it back just so they could sit do nothing and watch us. We also had another 2 hour PT session every night before bed. we ate three times a day when they allowed us to eat. We were given MRE's which are combat rations for the us millitary each meal has 2000 calories so we ate 6000 a day and i still lost weight! i have been made to do PT while eating my food as well as do TIME TRIALS where you had "x" amount of time to finish your main course then "x" amount of time to finish the crackers, etc etc then they PT'd everyone until kid started throwing up. another tactic was to make kids chug water then do jumping juacks till vomiting was induced.

2) my first day at ridge creek i remember sitting in a snow flurry which we all thought odd for april inmy long underwear with no clothes or shoes eating cold beef steak with extra salt out of a tinfoil packet. then i remeber running the furthest i had ever ran in my life i ran 3 and a half miles through the mountain woods that afternoon and my legs were sore for 2 days just from that. you never stopped being sore at ridge creek they made sure you were always sore.



3) intake? strip search. complete with bend, lift, and spread. mind you we were all coming from a secure facility. actually at my intake one kid refused to take off his clothes he was restrained and his clothes were CUT off of him, while he was held on the ground. we were all given long underwear and one by one told to go sit and eat breakfast. afetr breakfast they handed out our pants shirts and new boots and shoes. and we were told that there would be no complaining from any of us and that we all had unknowingly been subjected to rigorous physical tests by doctors we had recently seen and the reasons for these tests were to assure everyone that we would be physically capable of handling the program. They said there was no excuses here and we WOULD do as they said.

[quote}
August 10 at 3:43pm
1) What contact did you have with your family?
2) What role did your family play in this decision to move you to ridge creek?
3) Describe one very vivid memory of Ridge Creek and how it impacted you in a good way[/quote]

him:

August 10 at 4:27pm
Report Message1) no contact was provided between me and my family besides through letters which my counselors read first and decided whether to give them to me at all or when i would recieve them. The things they told each of us (my parents and I) were mostly lies we discovered later.

2) my family was the primary decision maker in sending me to ridge creek although i feel their decision may have been different had they been properly informaed of the situation at ridge creek.

3) one vivid memory i have of ridge creek would have to be when we travelled to sand rock alabama to go rock climbing for like 3 days. we still continued the shitty food and the horrid PT but we did see some beautiful scenery and got to experience a unique place;. either that or when i was restrained by two army rangers and other staff. while being held on the ground with a full grown man sitting on my back another adult male decided i needed a knee dropped directly into the side of my head which was already being held tightly against the ground. This affected me positively because from that point on i lost all respect for the program which led me to cause more trouble than they were willing to deal with which in turn led to my removal from that program as well as my return home, eventually.

August 10 at 7:30pm
1) Could you describe the assualts you mentioned?

2) Do you remember the names of the staff involved?

3) Did you ever see any official action from the police regarding these or other matters?

him:

sorry i have been real busy starting school and working i will finish the answers to these questions and have them to you by thursday. thank you for your interest.

August 26 at 10:45am
Well I'm ready and waiting. Fire away when you have the time. Good luck with school my friend.

Him:

August 26 at 1:40pm
1) the assaults i wittnessed were all borderline they were in grey areas where should force have been used? maybe, could things have been resolved without the use of said force ? certainly. my particualr assault was simply for dumping out my backpack, which i had been instructed to do but i did it in such away that was "intimidating" to the grown men standing around me. one of them grabbed me i dont know who, then i dont remember much just after a brief struggle being pinned to the floor and when attempting to glance up tommy wilburns knee came crashing into the side of my face. tommy wilburn is an ex delta force operative and us army ranger for 20+ years. he is a fighting machine and NEVER should be or should have been allowed to work with juveniles with behavior issues.

2) obviously tommy wilburn i remember another staff he was employed by HLA at the main campus as some kind of wilderness expert his name was matt and i dont remember his last name. Kevin another of the ridge creek instructors was present and assissted in my restraint.

3) the only action i ever wittnessed the police taking was to arrest students for the sole purpose of putting them on probation. once on probation the terms of that probation would read that the child had to finish the school or would be considered in violation of that probation. this was an interestin loophole the school used to keep kids parents from pulling them from the school.

i know these answers are brief please let me know if you need more info

August 26 at 9:04pm
no way man.. I've learned more about HLA from this Q/A than I ever have known.

Keep it coming in your own good time.

1) What tools did HLA/Ridge Creek attempt to teach you?

2) Did you have group counseling sessions?

3) Were students allowed to be in positions of power over other students?

Him:

August 27 at 3:18pm
Report Message1) tools attempted to teach? look they did do therapy and had they created an environment more friendly to acceptance of that therapy people would have gained much more from it. i learned some good things acceptance of my anger issues ways to cope and express that anger constructively etc but when you have your clothes and food taken from you after being given a lesson in anger management you start to kind of feel like a lab rat . ridge creek DID teach some leadership skills. now again they were taught in totally innapropriate ways. id it wrong i dont know it something ive struggled with basically i look at it like this: those people working at those facilities hadevery oppurtunity to do the right thing as often as possible. I believe that there were far more wrong decisions and inappropriate lessons they taught. the kids spoke in tounges the smuggled drugs and weapons NON violent kids actually planned a stabbing!


2) yes 3 times a week for 3 hours and sometimes aside from those they called them REALIZATIONS where they would confront you and trap you and play mind games and control games with you to find your buttons



3) Yes students were in charge of other students and those kids were the most undercover shady two faced kids at the school

[/quote]

[Anonymous]

The escort thing always makes me sick to my stomach. I am really surprised it is still legal to hire armed thugs to take your kid away to be brainwashed and tortured. It's like privatized stalinism, very ironic.


Interesting read though.

[Che Gookin]

Just goes to show outsourcing has been the flavor of the month for more than a month.

[Anonymous]

Those attacks committed by staff are crazy shit. Any other confirming sources on those remarks as I notice you said you were still looking into some of the information?

[Che Gookin]

Can't really say what I have or haven't confirmed at this point as there is quite a bit to wade through. I'm sort of letting the material stand on its own for right now.

My instincts tell me its all legit given that the bulk of the material lines up with the image I've gathered about HLA, but before I expand it into a full front page posting I would like to double check a few of the points of interest.

[Anonymous]

Those attacks committed by staff are crazy shit. Any other confirming sources on those remarks as I notice you said you were still looking into some of the information?

Assaults and attacks committed by staff are well documented on this site and other survivor sites.Facility Q and A has quite a few horror stories.

viewforum.php?f=52

[Anonymous]

this seems pretty accurate. i would like to note though that after around 03'-04' the staff at RCI lightened up, and the program is a little less difficult as what is stated in this Q&A. everything is pretty much the same, except now they eat HLA cafeteria's leftovers sometimes instead of MRE's, hike/run/pt slightly less, are forced to carry less weight at "mongo week", and the staff are not as hard-headed and abusive - as in, they dont make anyone chug water and then do jumping jacks anymore. but they still Pt the crap out of you if you slip up.


I would also like to note that the interviewee kinda brought this treatment upon themselves. not that he deserved to get sent away- no one does - but that he continued to be a jackass during his stay at HLA which resulted in him getting sent to RCI, SUWS, and 3 springs. most kids at HLA dont get abused to that extent unless they are real jackasses. most people smarten up and Pretend to go with the program, and have a pretty carefree time there. I'm not defending HLA, i fucking hate that place too. I'm just saying you make your stay there, and this guy made his own stay there very difficult for himself through his actions. granted, HLA staff overreacts and is abusive sometimes regardless, but you can pretend and get by. this guy refused to pretend and this is what he got. I admire his courage and integrity to an extent, but i also see this dude as stupid.

[psy]

@guest42:

I see what you're saying, but punishment in program is not always just.  Simply because he got sent to SUWS and Three Springs does not necessarily mean he deserved it.  You ever got punished for something you didn't do?  You ever see staff "single out" students they just didn't like?  Ever see somebody allowed to suceed who didnt deserve it simply because he would make a good "sucess story"?  Most programs have subjective criteria for punishment and advancement.  As such, these things do happen.  Is it really our place to judge...  especially when we weren't there and don't know the full circumstances surrounding the events?

[Anonymous]

this seems pretty accurate. i would like to note though that after around 03'-04' the staff at RCI lightened up, and the program is a little less difficult as what is stated in this Q&A. everything is pretty much the same, except now they eat HLA cafeteria's leftovers sometimes instead of MRE's, hike/run/pt slightly less, are forced to carry less weight at "mongo week", and the staff are not as hard-headed and abusive - as in, they dont make anyone chug water and then do jumping jacks anymore. but they still Pt the crap out of you if you slip up.


I would also like to note that the interviewee kinda brought this treatment upon themselves. not that he deserved to get sent away- no one does - but that he continued to be a jackass during his stay at HLA which resulted in him getting sent to RCI, SUWS, and 3 springs. most kids at HLA dont get abused to that extent unless they are real jackasses. most people smarten up and Pretend to go with the program, and have a pretty carefree time there. I'm not defending HLA, i fucking hate that place too. I'm just saying you make your stay there, and this guy made his own stay there very difficult for himself through his actions. granted, HLA staff overreacts and is abusive sometimes regardless, but you can pretend and get by. this guy refused to pretend and this is what he got. I admire his courage and integrity to an extent, but i also see this dude as stupid.

So, let me get this straight.   A kid is sent to an abusive facility.  He rejects the tenets of said facility and is punished for doing so and it is HIS fault?

[Anonymous]

no, not his fault. your twisting my words. You do what you have to do to survive, I did what i had to do to survive. this kid did not. Programs are unjust, and the only way to survive injustice is to pretend. Same applies for the soviet union and nazi germany. They were both unjust regimes, but some people survived despite all odds. why? they pretended. one must adapt to the circumstances. there is a time to protest, and a time to buckle down, and one must know the difference. this guy mixed up his timing.

It's not his fault for being punished. it is his fault though, for not avoiding punishment.

for example: say you get arrested for weed. Do you: A: scream at the judge and tell him the laws are unjust and you are political prisoner and flip out in court? or do you B: hire a lawyer, pretend to be an upstanding citizen and suck up to the judge? A will get you sent to prison. B will get your case dismissed.

[psy]

no, not his fault. your twisting my words. You do what you have to do to survive, I did what i had to do to survive. this kid did not. Programs are unjust, and the only way to survive injustice is to pretend. Same applies for the soviet union and nazi germany. They were both unjust regimes, but some people survived despite all odds. why? they pretended.

Well.  Let's think about the big picture...  One could also argue those rejiemes you mentioned could only have survived because enough people pretended, rather than protest.  If more people did what they believed to be right, rather than thinking about themselves, maybe things wouldn't have turned out so badly.  Not everybody takes the easy way out in such situations.  IMO, those that do protest should be commended for standing up, rather than lambasted as "stupid".  Sometimes doing the right thing and standing up for what you believe to be right isn't always "smart" from a perspective of pure self-preservation.   However... when people do stand up there is always a chance others will follow, and ... well look what happened after the riots at Cascade ...  abuse was exposed and the place went belly up.  There is always a chance that when you act as you believe, things can turn out in your favor.

Sure, in some programs, you can "fake it to make it", but in many programs the systems are rigged so much that success depends very little on your behavior and almost completely on your parent's financial resources.  In those circumstances, there is practical no reason not to protest as you're going to be screwed no matter what you do.

[Che Gookin]

this seems pretty accurate. i would like to note though that after around 03'-04' the staff at RCI lightened up, and the program is a little less difficult as what is stated in this Q&A. everything is pretty much the same, except now they eat HLA cafeteria's leftovers sometimes instead of MRE's, hike/run/pt slightly less, are forced to carry less weight at "mongo week", and the staff are not as hard-headed and abusive - as in, they dont make anyone chug water and then do jumping jacks anymore. but they still Pt the crap out of you if you slip up.

Mongo Week..

Elaborate please.

[Anonymous]

Mongo week, otherwise known as mondo or hell week, is the last segment of the RCI curriculum. First week you get in shape (lots of PT and hiking), second week you learn stuff (less PT and hiking, more learning knots, climbing and whatnot) third week is community service (pull up old refrigerators and washing machines from hills and ditches on the side of georgia roads and take them to junkyards) and the fourth week is mongo/mondo/hell week.

during mongo week the groups gets the bare minimum hours of sleep a day (six or seven hours i believe), and hikes virtually non-stop. they are forced to excercize all the skills they learned in the first few weeks, particularly navigation/orienteering, as the instructors usually just give you a checkpoint and tell you to be there by a certain time, then trail a distance behind you while your group finds it's own way. The difficult part about mongo week, which makes it mongo week, is that the group is forced to carry extra weight along with thier packs. this extra weight has in the past included: jugs of water, rocks, a locked coffin full of nutterbutters, a stretcher (sometimes with someone in it), and worst of all, "THE ROPE"........."THE ROPE" is a 150-200lb, 6" thick and 30-40' long ship anchor rope. the members of the group must distribute the weight of the rope evenly amongst themselves. while moving, no part of the rope may touch the ground, if it does, the whole group does PT with their packs on.

Imagine waking up a 6am, having 3min to pack up your stuff and be on your way hiking. then hike about 15 miles up and down mountains, carrying a 50 pound pack, the rope, and occasionally a stretcher or jug of water, untill midnight. then you wake up and do it all over again for another 6 days.

[Anonymous]

I forgot to mention, mongo week happens rain or shine, regardless of temprature. i've been out during freezing rain along with 110 degree weather. they only bring you in if there is a tornado warning and/or lightning. Also, THE ROPE gains about 100 extra pounds when it's wet (making it around 300lbs). the instructors in my group pre-soaked the rope just in case it didn't rain.

[Che Gookin]

Funny how those details got left out of that congressional hearing with all the weeping and wailing. Further, one expects nothing less from a proud member of Nutsack.