Author Topic: This should be interesting  (Read 3196 times)

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Offline The Fornits

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This should be interesting
« on: February 27, 2008, 12:07:01 AM »
Sorry, just got in. I had to change the description. I can't promise anybody safety. This is going to get some clams' attention. They're fucking brutal to critics, especially escapees. My jaw hurts. LOL

Seriously, let's just trade useful info such like what you've already provided, Mike, and not encourage a lot of private disclosure.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

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Re: This should be interesting
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2008, 12:57:19 AM »
Quote from: "The Fornits"
Sorry, just got in. I had to change the description. I can't promise anybody safety. This is going to get some clams' attention. They're fucking brutal to critics, especially escapees. My jaw hurts. LOL

Seriously, let's just trade useful info such like what you've already provided, Mike, and not encourage a lot of private disclosure.
You're absolutely right.  I'm hoping the anonymity provided through this forum will provide some sort of protection.  I'll be working with ... ppl we know ... to clamp down the forum's security even further to that effect.

But check this out:

http://forums.enturbulation.org/viewtop ... 323#p80323
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: This should be interesting
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2008, 06:33:16 AM »
Did you consider registering another domain that's easy to spell (www.letmego.com or something like that, wahtever's not taken), and having it redirect to this forum?

We need to make getting from seeing a sign to getting on this forum as easy as possible.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

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Re: This should be interesting
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2008, 09:18:48 AM »
Quote from: "Anonymous"
Did you consider registering another domain that's easy to spell (www.letmego.com or something like that, wahtever's not taken), and having it redirect to this forum?

We need to make getting from seeing a sign to getting on this forum as easy as possible.
That's an excellent idea.  I'll think of a name today then register a domain.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Ursus

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Re: This should be interesting
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2008, 09:30:29 AM »
Love this quote from user 'capricious': "L. RON is GONE yet the CON goes ON!"
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Offline psy

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Re: This should be interesting
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2008, 12:12:45 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Love this quote from user 'capricious': "L. RON is GONE yet the CON goes ON!"
It's from a song by the foolish marcabs afaik... It was yoinked from youtube.  Good thing I saved a copy (requires a flash player): http://www.fornits.com/psy/foolishmarcabs.flv  The reference to "Lisa" is to Lisa McPherson, of course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline x.sea.org

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Re: This should be interesting
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2008, 02:11:51 PM »
Hi!  Just found this site, linked from somewhere, not sure which board.  It's incredible to see so many people willing to help people get out.  Leaving the SO can be very rough as usually a person has no money, no job, is often in a strange city or country, has lost touch with pre Scn friends, and on leaving is cut off from everyone they know in Scn.  Pretty daunting. 

Things are certainly hotting up in the Rescue Sea Org members area.  I've revived a project I've had on the back burner for awhile.  It is a website designed specifically for Sea Org members that are still in but starting to question and those that are newly out and require immediate assistance.  It will contain key data on the abuses of Scn and the lies that Scn management tells its members, available or linked to in one place so things are easy to find. 

The site is currently up even though it is not complete.  It will be added to daily, with a target date of Mar 15 for completion.  The flow of exiting SO members is increasing and I think the dam is about to break.  We want to make that exit as easy as possible.  There are many exes now who are willing to give a hand to those who leave, and we are fairly well networked.

I'd like to link to your site.  Please take a look at mine.  I'm open to suggestions as my site is still being compiled.  I have 2 addresses for it.  The current one is a google pages address where I am putting it together.  Here's the link.

http://x.sea.org.googlepages.com/home

I also own the domain name www.exseaorg.com and this will be working shortly - next few days.  I hope you can use this site as a resource for those who contact you. 

Regards,  Carla
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Offline psy

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Re: This should be interesting
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2008, 04:42:13 PM »
Quote from: "x.sea.org"
Leaving the SO can be very rough as usually a person has no money, no job, is often in a strange city or country, has lost touch with pre Scn friends, and on leaving is cut off from everyone they know in Scn.

Same exact situation in the cult I was in.

First step in resolving the situation would seem to be to get temporary accommodation, then get identification back using the cops if necessary, then attempting to reconnect with parents / other friends who can hopefully help out in the effort of getting a job / permanant accomodations.  That being said, there has to be a backup for those who don't have friends or family to reconnect with.

Do you have many volunteers?  Churches should be a good place to start looking.  Although it might not seem like a good idea at first, if you can get an agreement that there will be no preaching it might be a great idea.  Catholics, despite what many say, are often good at that.  The refugees are going to need some talking to, though during those days by an ex-member.  How many lines is the 1-866-XSEAORG?  If many leave all at once, it's going to be far too much for one person.


I'd like to comment on this open letter from an OT8 and ask a few questions is you have time:
Quote from: "BTs2Free"
Responsible for keeping dossiers “ethics files” on the people which contained copies of Knowledge Reports (there’s Scientology policy that states that if you don’t write people up when you’ve witnessed an unethical action, you yourself become an accomplice to the crime and could get the same penalties or justice actions – HCO PL KNOWLEDGE REPORTS), also containing OW write ups (personal write-ups in your own handwriting admitting to your own “overts”, “withholds” and “crimes”.

Same exact thing where I was.  They called them "Dirt Lists".  Most programs on this site do this orally, though...  what is the difference between an overt, a withhold, and a crime, though?

Quote from: "BTs2Free"
If overts came up in O/W write ups or sec checks such as masturbation or something that resulted in a Hill 10 that wasn’t known about, they were publicly humiliated in front of the whole org and then over-boarded.

Typical...  I won't even get into the petty things I was humiliated for in "group" (also called "Raps").

Quote from: "BTs2Free"
There is a section that literally asks you for the addresses and phone numbers of close friends and family in case they ever needed to be contacted “in case of emergencies” etc. A life history also requires that you write down every sexual act you’ve ever done and every drug you’ve taken including how many times. Life history forms are also checked on the meter “if you’ve left anything out” and cleared to F/N.

Same in the program I was in.  This was the master "Dirt List".  Most programs on this site did/do this.

Quote from: "BTs2Free"
If Scientologists and SO members were allowed to have outside legal representation, heads would roll and there would be quite a few fines and prison sentences.

Same situation again.  An idea on how one might get these kids/adults legal representation?  A poster here, Nihilanthic suggested a writ of Habeus Corpus.  Another idea that's been passed around has been to actually sue a person inside the cult to force them to appear in court and get legal representation.  All this is theoretical, of course, and a lawyer should probably be consulted.

I'm not sure how effective phone numbers can be thanks to the Sea Org controlling the phone lines.  An idea I had a while back with another cult was to distribute disposable cell phones with numbers pre-programmed, but the efficacy of that would seem to depend largely on how effective the Sea Org is at searching it's members for contraband.

Quote from: "BTs2Free"
I had hardly any experience with real employment, only the skills I had learned in Scientology. Luckily, I’m bright, skilled as an artist and at computers and know what pressure actually means! LOL. So, I’ve managed to get myself into a comfortable position for myself and am doing very well. I’m loving life to the fullest right now.

I think there needs to be a lot more of this on your site... to let the insiders know that those who leave or "aren't following the program" aren't doomed to fail (or, in "program" language, "dead-insane-in-jail").  Perhaps more stories of those who have left the Sea Org / Scientology and are doing well on their own.

It does take help, though, and the kids who leave, especially, are going to need it.  Let me know how myself, or others here can help.
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Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
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Offline Nihilanthic

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Re: This should be interesting
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2008, 06:45:24 PM »
I'm officially coming forward as an anonymous envoy and would like to help out in any way that I can with this.

Also let me say that this completely changes things. The program industry might be more distributed, harder to pin down, and have a lil more money, but they're not nearly as dangerous as CoS is to OUTSIDERS. However, its given us some good lessons in how to deal with this sort of institution/group.

Thusly, its time to be serious again. We're all in danger now, and not just from the likes of harassment from Mrs Sue-Sue. We're in REAL danger of our lives, probably at risk of having scilon agent provocateurs like Mr. Who flood in, and be socially engineered to give out information that could be used against us, and they WILL Show up at any publicly announced event we will have.

Old fornits, its been good knowin' ya! Really, I'll miss you. But I guess things are getting worse, before the get better.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline x.sea.org

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Re: This should be interesting
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2008, 09:38:52 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
date=1204494133]
Quote from: "x.sea.org"
Leaving the SO can be very rough as usually a person has no money, no job, is often in a strange city or country, has lost touch with pre Scn friends, and on leaving is cut off from everyone they know in Scn.

Same exact situation in the cult I was in.

First step in resolving the situation would seem to be to get temporary accommodation, then get identification back using the cops if necessary, then attempting to reconnect with parents / other friends who can hopefully help out in the effort of getting a job / permanant accomodations.  That being said, there has to be a backup for those who don't have friends or family to reconnect with.

Do you have many volunteers?  Churches should be a good place to start looking.  Although it might not seem like a good idea at first, if you can get an agreement that there will be no preaching it might be a great idea.  Catholics, despite what many say, are often good at that.  The refugees are going to need some talking to, though during those days by an ex-member.  How many lines is the 1-866-XSEAORG?  If many leave all at once, it's going to be far too much for one person.

The 1-800-XSEAORG is one line.  It should be enough.  Chuck has been in contact with many Exes and can put people in contact with other Ex SO friends.    There are many people on the XSO, ESMB and OCMB boards that would be willing to drop everything at a moments notice and go get someone, give them a place to stay, help them find a job etc.  It has been discussed numerous times.  Although they are not all posting on these boards, the  Ex SO outnumber those currently in by about 10 to 1.  SO members in the USA currently number about 3000.  If they all decided to leave on the same day we'd be hopping busy, but I don't think that is going to happen.  Other countries have less people in the SO. 

Additionally to our own resources, Anonymous has appeared on the scene in January, and have many people willing to give a hand if needed.

Quote from: psy link=topic=25375.msg310057#msg310057
I'd like to comment on [url=http://x.sea.org.googlepages.com/openletterfromanot8
this open letter from an OT8[/url] and ask a few questions is you have time:
Quote from: "BTs2Free"
Responsible for keeping dossiers “ethics files” on the people which contained copies of Knowledge Reports (there’s Scientology policy that states that if you don’t write people up when you’ve witnessed an unethical action, you yourself become an accomplice to the crime and could get the same penalties or justice actions – HCO PL KNOWLEDGE REPORTS), also containing OW write ups (personal write-ups in your own handwriting admitting to your own “overts”, “withholds” and “crimes”.

Same exact thing where I was.  They called them "Dirt Lists".  Most programs on this site do this orally, though...  what is the difference between an overt, a withhold, and a crime, though?

An overt is a contrasurvival act or wrongdoing.  A withhold is anything you don't want found out.  Usually this would be an overt you are hiding, but could also be something you are embarrassed about or perhaps a secret plan to leave.  A crime per the Scn definition are acts that would harm Scn. such as publicly denouncing it.  Some felonies are also included. 

Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "BTs2Free"
If overts came up in O/W write ups or sec checks such as masturbation or something that resulted in a Hill 10 that wasn’t known about, they were publicly humiliated in front of the whole org and then over-boarded.

Typical...  I won't even get into the petty things I was humiliated for in "group" (also called "Raps").

Quote from: "BTs2Free"
There is a section that literally asks you for the addresses and phone numbers of close friends and family in case they ever needed to be contacted “in case of emergencies” etc. A life history also requires that you write down every sexual act you’ve ever done and every drug you’ve taken including how many times. Life history forms are also checked on the meter “if you’ve left anything out” and cleared to F/N.

Same in the program I was in.  This was the master "Dirt List".  Most programs on this site did/do this.

I didn't know it was a common thing.  It used to be uncommon in Scn.  It has become more prevelant.  Every bad point Scn ever had has become worse.  The good things have virtually disappeared.

Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "BTs2Free"
If Scientologists and SO members were allowed to have outside legal representation, heads would roll and there would be quite a few fines and prison sentences.

Same situation again.  An idea on how one might get these kids/adults legal representation?  A poster here, Nihilanthic suggested a writ of Habeus Corpus.  Another idea that's been passed around has been to actually sue a person inside the cult to force them to appear in court and get legal representation.  All this is theoretical, of course, and a lawyer should probably be consulted.

I'm not sure how effective phone numbers can be thanks to the Sea Org controlling the phone lines.  An idea I had a while back with another cult was to distribute disposable cell phones with numbers pre-programmed, but the efficacy of that would seem to depend largely on how effective the Sea Org is at searching it's members for contraband.

Sea Org members are not allowed to have cell phones and they do get searched.  On some bases they can get to an outside phone pretty easily, just walk down the street, although they may find themselves being interrogated about what the phone call was about.  In LA all they have to do is walk away, them find a phone that isn't in plain sight of an org.  The hardest place we have to deal with is the Int/Gold base in Hemet.  It is completely surrounded with big fences, razor wire, motion detectors and armed guards on motorcycles.  It is also home to the most dedicated members, although I think some of them may be ready to come out.  There are currently about 50 people - senior execs of the Church, imprisoned in the SP Hall.  Some of them have been there a couple of years now.  Those we are the most worried about.

Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "BTs2Free"
I had hardly any experience with real employment, only the skills I had learned in Scientology. Luckily, I’m bright, skilled as an artist and at computers and know what pressure actually means! LOL. So, I’ve managed to get myself into a comfortable position for myself and am doing very well. I’m loving life to the fullest right now.

I think there needs to be a lot more of this on your site... to let the insiders know that those who leave or "aren't following the program" aren't doomed to fail (or, in "program" language, "dead-insane-in-jail").  Perhaps more stories of those who have left the Sea Org / Scientology and are doing well on their own.

It does take help, though, and the kids who leave, especially, are going to need it.  Let me know how myself, or others here can help.

More stories are a good idea.  I have seen a thread on one of the boards about how people handled their resumes, etc.  I think I'll ask the posters if I can use their material. 

Perhaps what you could do most immediately is post links to the new website.  I can write up a new thread announcing it.  I should have the new www.exseaorg.com address functional within a day.  I'd prefer to use that.  It's easier to remember.

Thank-you,
Carla
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Offline psy

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Re: This should be interesting
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2008, 09:55:24 PM »
When you get the main site up, i'll start a "Helpful Links" thread and post your site there.  In addition, if you know Arnie Lerma, get him to give me a shout about you confirming you're not OSA and i'll make you a moderator on this subforum.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)