A tout is a

[TheWho?]

I just see the name "Who" and I know it's cram filled with self righteousness and bullshit and made up realities you tell yourself to convince yourself you have a daughter

         

[Froderik]

A week ago I posted a list of whatever I thought represented minimum standards for any facility that wanted to treat adolescents away from their homes for the variety of "conditions" that the tough love industry purportsto treat.
  My post was as follows:

       The difficulty with the who's generalities about the industry is that it ignores the awful pain and suffereng experienced by all of the adolescents that were horribly harmed over the years as the industry became more sophisticated and the families that were promised they would be helped and were actually ripped asunder by an industry that said it was about kids and families but was actually about money and junk science using kids as guinea pigs and the kids and families being hurt today in theindustry's most recent incarnation.  If you and your industry are serious about doing what is right let's talk about some general rules based on the law and what we know and you seem to acknowledge about adolescent development and the lack of support for facilities that abuse kids and call the abuse- therapy.
Can we agree on these fundamental principles.

     
1)   All facilities, however they describe themselves, will provide the minimum education required in the state in which each adolescent resided before arriving at the facility.  The right and obligation of adolescents to an education will be acknowledged and not treated as a privilege which must be earned.

2)   Facilities, whatever they call themselves, will not seek to have health insurance pay any portions of tuition in the absence of a report for a psychiatrist who is unaffiliated with the facility, that the child has an illness that is recognized in the DSM 4 and that the facility treats in a manner consistent with the standard of care for that illness.

3)   efore using the word therapy to describe any of what they do the child who is to receive the therapy will be diagnosed with a condition or an illness and the facility will represent that the therapy is appropriate for the condition or illness.

4)   No facility, however they describe themselves, will accept adolescents who are picked up by transport services in the middle of the night recognizing that the use of such services is destructive to the relationship between children and their parents and is an act of cowardice and immaturity on the part of the parents.

5)   Recognizing that the relationship of children with their parents is important, no  facility will accept a child whose parents are divorced  where the placement will impact on the non custodial parents visitation rights without first being provided with a court order permitting the placement.

6)   All facilities will include in their promotional material specific details on the educational levels and certifications of all employees providing professional services. The distinction between services being provided by licensed professional and services being provided by others will be made clear.

7)   All facilities will make available information about the number of adolescents  admitted to the program in the past five years and the number that successfully “graduated” from the program..

   All facilities will make it clear that it does not approve or tolerate physical abuse of adolescents, the use of exercise as punishment, the withholding of food or sleep as therapy or punishment, and the humiliation of adolescents as therapy. 

9)   All facilities will permit adolescents regular and unmonitored contact with their parents after an initial blackout period not to exceed two weeks.

10)   No adolescent will be admitted to a facility based on a diagnosis contained within the DSM 4 unless they have first been treated for the condition that the facility diagnosed on an out patient basis in the community in which they live and if the diagnosis includes a disorder premised on an inability to get along with their parents the family has had a course of family therapy with a licensed therapist.

       I suspect this would not work for the industry because if they followed them an industry, based on junk science, would seek to exist. [/b]         The post and what follows appears on page 2 of a topic called "struggling teens changes their tune"



         The poster who calls himself who but appears to be a tout for the industry engaged me.  He called most of the points "reasonable but when I asked which facilities followed them he refused to respond.  Instead he manipulated and steered the conversation in a remarkably condescending way and then started a new thread here he could get a list that was more general on the board.  So I asked him to describe the facilities that met his new list he still would not respond.  Similarly he declined to provide any information that wilderness programs help with any illness in the dsm. I ended the conversation when who refused to play fair but said I would come back today of he was ready to engage in a serious way.  Are you who or do you still want to quit?

   



         

I haven't read this yet, but thought I'd bump it to keep the thread going..

[DieYuppieSkum]

I just see the name "Who" and I know it's cram filled with self righteousness and bullshit and made up realities you tell yourself to convince yourself you have a daughter

         

ok... and?  You DON'T have a daughter... and if you do have one then bring her in her and let her parade around these treatment centers for herself.

See you don't get it. No one wants to hear how YOU think it helped your kid... It only matters if SHE thinks it helped... which  means she either does not exist at all or she hates you for sending her and the program tore you two apart... Go ahead and pick one because either way it defeats your cause and either way proves you are a fucking liar.

[TheWho?]

Quote from: TheWho?

         

ok... and?  You DON'T have a daughter... and if you do have one then bring her in her and let her parade around these treatment centers for herself.

See you don't get it. No one wants to hear how YOU think it helped your kid... It only matters if SHE thinks it helped... which  means she either does not exist at all or she hates you for sending her and the program tore you two apart... Go ahead and pick one because either way it defeats your cause and either way proves you are a fucking liar.

Who me?

[DieYuppieSkum]

sorry.. in a fit of typing rage I completely missed the question mark.


My statement however STILL applies to the real who.

[Anne Bonney]

The Who got PWNED again.  Even harder this time.  Nice work MIS!!!!!




The whole point that this makes is that none of these places would exist if they had to follow this cursory list of what amounts to basic human rights.  That's why no one can name a 'safe' or 'effective' facility.  They know the second they do, we'd be able to debunk it by comparing it to this list.

A week ago I posted a list of whatever I thought represented minimum standards for any facility that wanted to treat adolescents away from their homes for the variety of "conditions" that the tough love industry purportsto treat.
  My post was as follows:

       The difficulty with the who's generalities about the industry is that it ignores the awful pain and suffereng experienced by all of the adolescents that were horribly harmed over the years as the industry became more sophisticated and the families that were promised they would be helped and were actually ripped asunder by an industry that said it was about kids and families but was actually about money and junk science using kids as guinea pigs and the kids and families being hurt today in theindustry's most recent incarnation.  If you and your industry are serious about doing what is right let's talk about some general rules based on the law and what we know and you seem to acknowledge about adolescent development and the lack of support for facilities that abuse kids and call the abuse- therapy.
Can we agree on these fundamental principles.

     
1)   All facilities, however they describe themselves, will provide the minimum education required in the state in which each adolescent resided before arriving at the facility.  The right and obligation of adolescents to an education will be acknowledged and not treated as a privilege which must be earned.

2)   Facilities, whatever they call themselves, will not seek to have health insurance pay any portions of tuition in the absence of a report for a psychiatrist who is unaffiliated with the facility, that the child has an illness that is recognized in the DSM 4 and that the facility treats in a manner consistent with the standard of care for that illness.

3)   efore using the word therapy to describe any of what they do the child who is to receive the therapy will be diagnosed with a condition or an illness and the facility will represent that the therapy is appropriate for the condition or illness.

4)   No facility, however they describe themselves, will accept adolescents who are picked up by transport services in the middle of the night recognizing that the use of such services is destructive to the relationship between children and their parents and is an act of cowardice and immaturity on the part of the parents.

5)   Recognizing that the relationship of children with their parents is important, no  facility will accept a child whose parents are divorced  where the placement will impact on the non custodial parents visitation rights without first being provided with a court order permitting the placement.

6)   All facilities will include in their promotional material specific details on the educational levels and certifications of all employees providing professional services. The distinction between services being provided by licensed professional and services being provided by others will be made clear.

7)   All facilities will make available information about the number of adolescents  admitted to the program in the past five years and the number that successfully “graduated” from the program..

   All facilities will make it clear that it does not approve or tolerate physical abuse of adolescents, the use of exercise as punishment, the withholding of food or sleep as therapy or punishment, and the humiliation of adolescents as therapy. 

9)   All facilities will permit adolescents regular and unmonitored contact with their parents after an initial blackout period not to exceed two weeks.

10)   No adolescent will be admitted to a facility based on a diagnosis contained within the DSM 4 unless they have first been treated for the condition that the facility diagnosed on an out patient basis in the community in which they live and if the diagnosis includes a disorder premised on an inability to get along with their parents the family has had a course of family therapy with a licensed therapist.

       I suspect this would not work for the industry because if they followed them an industry, based on junk science, would seek to exist. [/b]         The post and what follows appears on page 2 of a topic called "struggling teens changes their tune"



         The poster who calls himself who but appears to be a tout for the industry engaged me.  He called most of the points "reasonable but when I asked which facilities followed them he refused to respond.  Instead he manipulated and steered the conversation in a remarkably condescending way and then started a new thread here he could get a list that was more general on the board.  So I asked him to describe the facilities that met his new list he still would not respond.  Similarly he declined to provide any information that wilderness programs help with any illness in the dsm. I ended the conversation when who refused to play fair but said I would come back today of he was ready to engage in a serious way.  Are you who or do you still want to quit?

   



         

[TheWho]

You make this getting "pawned" thing sound so negative.  MIS's list was well intended.  I think in all fairness to her we should give her credit for coming up with the first draft and a foundation for all of us to work from.


...

[Anne Bonney]

What color is the sky in your world?  Is it pretty? 

[seamus]

pretty vacant

[TheWho]

Nice and sunny, we had a snowy weekend so its nice to see the sun.  Ski country made out fairly well also.  I had this heated driveway installed.  I expected it to melt and then run down to the lowest level and puddle up but it seems to just evaporate upon impact.  I think they call that sublimation.  I imagine if it snows hard enough it would puddle up.


...

[TheWho?]

You make this getting "pawned" thing sound so negative.  MIS's list was well intended.  I think in all fairness to her we should give her credit for coming up with the first draft and a foundation for all of us to work from.


...

Nevermind, ignore what i just said!

[Anonymous]

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TODAY TO HELP A PROGRAM KID?

[Che Gookin]

I woke up and puked in the toilet from a hard night of debauchery in Macau. God damn.. I love dancing girls... and casinos.. and dancing girls.. and casinos.. and dancing girls...