StrugglingTeens changes their tune

[Anonymous]

wait a minute who.  I am losing you.  The expression "Evidence based treatment" has a meaning.  It is not something "out of the box" or "outside the norm" unless there is a basis to suggest it works and the way professionals (your word) show a basis to believe it works is by publishing  results.  You can't agree to what I proposed as # 4 and then say that facilities can advocate methods out of the norm for illnesses and a variety of diagnosable conditions, many of them contained in the DSM 4, without providing the specifics that demonstrate their efficacy.  And I am sure you would agree with me that no professional would be satisfied with proof from a few parents or adolescents that the facility changed their lives. Either we are talking about professional treatment or we are not.

[TheWho]

Are there any programs or schools that you support that allow the parent(s) and teen to communicate with each other at any time they wish in private and in person from day one? Also will these programs or schools allow the teen to leave with their parents for any reason deemed appropriate by the parent(s) without staff being present from day one?

No I don’t.  Most places that I know of have a waiting period before the child can call home and then after that they can only call at specified times.  Each program is different.

From the research I have conducted, I cannot find "good" programs or schools specifically intended for the treatment of adolescents. Do you have any proof of these "good" programs or schools whom you defend?

I would suggest speaking to the schools themselves.  Most schools will have a list of parents with whom you can speak to who had children attend the program and this will give you a feel for if your child would be a good fit or not.

You may have listed this information on some other post, so you will forgive me if these requests are redundant.

I don’t want to list the names of schools here on the forum.

These questions are not rhetorical, I am truly interested in your responses.

If some parents wish to opt-out and send their adolescents to an expensive parenting service, I don't have a problem with that. There will always be irresponsible parents looking for the easy way out. The problem I have is that wherever these adolescents are dropped off, they seem to lose all respect and dignity as young people. They lose their rights and are abused. In these cases, the blame falls onto the program or school if the parent has been deceived. In these cases, the parent is only guilty of ignorance. In other words, if a parent wants to send their adolescent to a program or school that treats the youth with respect and offers freedom from any abuses, I am willing to offer my interest. Strict government regulation would be a good first step to insure this type of dignified parenting service is fair and ethical.

Yes, regulation would make many people feel more comfortable.  TBS’s are typically for those kids who did not respond to local services and or standard therapies.  This is not something you want to jump into blindly or lightly.

When you get old and cannot take care of yourself, remember that your child might have the decision to take care of you at home or send you away to a nursing home, a nursing home where the advertised care is abundant and the truth is pain and isolation. If you could see the nursing homes I have seen, you would understand. This is not an issue of "troubled teens", this is an issue of a social epidemic.

Yes, good point, nursing homes are a lot like the Troubled teen industry.  There are good ones and bad ones and not all the people that are there need to be there.  I am sure there are people who feel we should shut down all the nursing homes too.


...

[Anonymous]

and while we are at it who- I thought of another item that we should be able to agree should be standard and required practice at every facility.

 All employees of the facility that provide treatment or therapy or educational services to the adolescent should be considered  mandatory reporters of allegations of child abuse and the facility will promptly report to the appropriate child welfare agency in the state that the adolescent lived in before being sent to the facility all reports of sexual or physical abuse that the adolescents discloses they were subjected to before arriving at the facility.
One of the saddest problems in the industry Who are the children that are sent away by parents that abused them and then told atthe facility that they are responsible for being there as a result of the bad choices they made. It is particularly important that the report of possible abuse be made in the state where the child originated because that is where the alleged abuser is going to be.

Can we make this item # 5 who?

[Anonymous]

who- your response to wdtony is typical of the naive or intellectuallly dishonest responses you provide because
1) the nursing industry is only like the facilities that you support in that they both involve providing traetment for people.  Nursing homes are subject to an enormous number of regulations by both the federal and state government with respectto staffing, have reports about their histpory available from public agencies and provide medical treatment in accordance with the standard of care.  The facilities you support- not so much

Your comments about getting a list of parents from the chool to speak to sounds good but there are always people that will say wonderful things about awful places.  You used Straight as an example of a bad place.  One of the reasons Straight and its progeny continued for so long and hurt so many people was because of the available of a seemingly endless supply of parents and even graduates that  described the program in glowing and life saving terms. There are still people out there that will tell you how wonderful Straight was. Sadly some of them are the parents of people who post on this forum.

[TheWho]

wait a minute who.  I am losing you.  The expression "Evidence based treatment" has a meaning.  It is not something "out of the box" or "outside the norm" unless there is a basis to suggest it works and the way professionals (your word) show a basis to believe it works is by publishing  results.  You can't agree to what I proposed as # 4 and then say that facilities can advocate methods out of the norm for illnesses and a variety of diagnosable conditions, many of them contained in the DSM 4, without providing the specifics that demonstrate their efficacy.  And I am sure you would agree with me that no professional would be satisfied with proof from a few parents or adolescents that the facility changed their lives. Either we are talking about professional treatment or we are not.

Not sure I agree.  A professional therapist could see a TBS as a possible answer for a child who has not responded well to their medication or local therapist.  A highly structured environment, living among their peers might be a last hope for the child and may get them back on the right path.  If the school doesn’t have a clinical study to provide everyone, I don’t think this should stop the child from attending.  I think we can all agree that if standard practices were effective, for these children, then there would be no need for TBS’s.
#4 - unless the treatment is specifically approved by an outside therapist it must be evidence based and consistent with any applicable standard of care.

I think the way it is worded allows the parent to choose a TBS (on their own) but they need to get the approval of a local therapist first to insure the particular TBS’s model would not be harmful to the child.


...

[TheWho]

who- your response to wdtony is typical of the naive or intellectuallly dishonest responses you provide because
1) the nursing industry is only like the facilities that you support in that they both involve providing traetment for people.  Nursing homes are subject to an enormous number of regulations by both the federal and state government with respectto staffing, have reports about their histpory available from public agencies and provide medical treatment in accordance with the standard of care.  The facilities you support- not so much

So based on the abuse we see taking place in nursing homes we can conclude that this enormous amount of oversight and regulation is ineffective.  This is why I don’t feel regulation is the answer for the TBS industry.

Your comments about getting a list of parents from the chool to speak to sounds good but there are always people that will say wonderful things about awful places.

Yes, there are, I typically suggest talking to several people.

 

You used Straight as an example of a bad place.  One of the reasons Straight and its progeny continued for so long and hurt so many people was because of the available of a seemingly endless supply of parents and even graduates that  described the program in glowing and life saving terms. There are still people out there that will tell you how wonderful Straight was. Sadly some of them are the parents of people who post on this forum.

Yes there is that risk.  But speaking with past customers is an acceptable and effective way of learning about a school or business.



...

[Anonymous]

who- envision a nursing home industry that was not regulated. Do yo think older people would be treated better?  I think a bad sitiuation would be much and that there would be many more cases of abuse.  Maybe it would sort of be like the industry you tout.  By the way, I have trouble every time you use the word therapeutic and put it in front of the words boarding school because I think that is about marketing and nothing else unless one is specific about the therapy.  I have an idea.  Maybe nursing homes should all change their names to therapeutic nursing homes.  We could call them tnh's. It might be good for business.  they woudl do exactly what they do now but the people that send familiy members there would feel more comfortable with their choices.

And no who- the expression "evidence based treatment" has a meaning.  It does not refer to anything that someone who buys abuilding and sets upa web site can sell to parents as good for their children,

BUt lets come back to my list.  Later today I will relist the items and we can see if we can tighten the language and continue.

[Anonymous]

for those who haven't figured out his game, make it simple is actually theWho.

[TheWho]

who- envision a nursing home industry that was not regulated. Do yo think older people would be treated better?  I think a bad sitiuation would be much and that there would be many more cases of abuse.

You could be right, but we can agree that all the oversight and regulation hasnt done that much to protect these people.  Have you ever visited a nursing home?  Not the nicest places to live some of them.

Maybe it would sort of be like the industry you tout.

That’s my point, the ones you tout and the ones I tout are the same except TBS’s are unregulated.

By the way, I have trouble every time you use the word therapeutic and put it in front of the words boarding school because I think that is about marketing and nothing else unless one is specific about the therapy.  I have an idea.  Maybe nursing homes should all change their names to therapeutic nursing homes.  We could call them tnh's. It might be good for business.  they woudl do exactly what they do now but the people that send familiy members there would feel more comfortable with their choices.

If they are based on healing then maybe you have a point.  The reason they use the term TBS’s is because they are boarding schools which provide therapy.  This way they can differentiate themselves from regular boarding schools.
If it was just about marketing they would call themselves PBS’s for “Panacea Boarding Schools”, but since they realize they cant cure everyone they call themselves TBS’s.

And no who- the expression "evidence based treatment" has a meaning.  It does not refer to anything that someone who buys abuilding and sets upa web site can sell to parents as good for their children,

I don’t recall challenging the definition, I accept its meaning.

BUt lets come back to my list.  Later today I will relist the items and we can see if we can tighten the language and continue.

I think we left off here:

#1- there should be unaffiliated therapists providing therapy. The family should be involved in the  therapy and the facility should be as close to the family's home as is reasonably possible.
#2 Unmonitored phone calls should be available to the adolescents
#3 A fixed or predetermined length of stay... or maybe a small window of 14 -16 months..... 6-9 months .... 30 - 60 days etc. depending on the school/program.
#4 -Unless the treatment is specifically approved by an outside therapist it must be evidence based and consistent with any applicable standard of care.



...

[Anonymous]

for those who haven't figured out his game, make it simple is actually theWho.

On what do you base this speculation? Or is it speculation (maybe you're an admin)?

[Anonymous]

who- how about my # 5-reporting sexual and other abuse in the state where the alleged abuser resides.  That requirement makes sense.  It would also eliminate virtually every facility you tout.  So would your agreement to number four but that is for later.   Are we also in agreement that no adolescent will be admitted without the agreement of a licensed thaerapist unaffilaited with the institution and located in the state where the adoelscent's family resides.  I think we lost that one somehow.



And lets be clear who- I am not advocating any faxcility.  There is no secret here.  When we are done with this list there will be no facility that you can name or a parent can find that will abide by them    

[TheWho]

who- how about my # 5-reporting sexual and other abuse in the state where the alleged abuser resides.  That requirement makes sense.

Not sure why it needs to be reported in the state the child resides.  I would think it would be important to report it to the community where the offense occurred.  Is there some type of law to this effect?

 

It would also eliminate virtually every facility you tout.  So would your agreement to number four but that is for later.   Are we also in agreement that no adolescent will be admitted without the agreement of a licensed thaerapist unaffilaited with the institution and located in the state where the adoelscent's family resides.  I think we lost that one somehow.

No I think we discussed it but settled on this wording:
#4 -Unless the treatment is specifically approved by an outside therapist it must be evidence based and consistent with any applicable standard of care.

And lets be clear who- I am not advocating any faxcility.  There is no secret here.  When we are done with this list there will be no facility that you can name or a parent can find that will abide by them   

I think this was implied at the very beginning.  At least it was on my end.  I did this same thing on cars.. a few of us defined the ideal car i.e 100 miles to the gallon…. 500 horsepower etc.  but we knew it did not exist.  This is a great exercise because it puts the industry in perspective from a customer’s point of view of what the ideal TBS would look like.  After we are done we could rank the items in order of importance.  There isn’t a school that is meeting all of our requirements because , for 1, unless they are reading this they have never seen our list and 2 we are just 2 people out of thousands and we could be missing some very important items which we have not thought of.  The schools themselves have been in the business for awhile and could probably add some perspective as well as psychologists in the field and other professionals.

How about this:

# 5-reporting sexual and other abuse to the proper authorities.

...

[Anonymous]

The proper state is the state where the abuse occured and the key is making all employees at the facility mandatory reporters.  Do you agree with that? 

Lets take a break though who so you can provide a list of wilderness programs that meet what is on the list so far?

I think that would be 0

Without the names of facilities you could be just making things up.

The list- who?

[TheWho]

The proper state is the state where the abuse occured and the key is making all employees at the facility mandatory reporters.  Do you agree with that?

Sounds great…

Lets recap on our wish list:

#1- there should be unaffiliated therapists providing therapy. The family should be involved in the  therapy and the facility should be as close to the family's home as is reasonably possible.
#2 Unmonitored phone calls should be available to the adolescents
#3 A fixed or predetermined length of stay... or maybe a small window of 14 -16 months..... 6-9 months .... 30 - 60 days etc. depending on the school/program.
#4 -Unless the treatment is specifically approved by an outside therapist it must be evidence based and consistent with any applicable standard of care.
#5-reporting sexual and other abuse to the proper authorities.

Lets take a break though who so you can provide a list of wilderness programs that meet what is on the list so far?

What we would need to do is get a copy of each schools procedure and then compare it to the list we have put together.  I would imagine many of the not so good schools would fall out.. not so sure the number would be zero though.

Without the names of facilities you could be just making things up.

Making what up?

The list- who?

We could start with NATSAPs list of schools and start going thru them one by one, but we would need to get a copy of their procedures to determine which of the items they adhere to.  I don’t see much luck in doing that.  Do you have access to any of them?



...

[Anonymous]

you could be just making things up

Are you just now figuring this out?