Author Topic: Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..  (Read 4638 times)

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Offline Che Gookin

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Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
« on: February 05, 2008, 08:19:11 PM »
Botched Programming and I had the following convo about fliers...

Quote

[Today at 06:55:26 PM] Botched Programming: you gonna help me out with making a standard flyer???

[Today at 06:55:44 PM] Che Gookin: be happy to.

[Today at 06:55:55 PM] Che Gookin: a good  1 page flyer is a better bet anyway.

[Today at 06:56:04 PM] Che Gookin: the entire orange papers might be a bit much.

[Today at 06:56:17 PM] Botched Programming: I'll pm you my real e-mail address

[Today at 06:56:26 PM] Che Gookin: you have yahoo or msn?

[Today at 06:56:39 PM] Botched Programming: yea... I sorta butchered it to suit my own need

[Today at 06:56:56 PM] Botched Programming: nah... just my work e-mail

[Today at 06:57:12 PM] Che Gookin: I hear you there.

[Today at 06:57:32 PM] Che Gookin: ok.. well what exactly where you thinking of getting across to these said dophers?

[Today at 06:57:50 PM] Che Gookin: you just want them to read the orange papers?

[Today at 06:58:31 PM] Botched Programming: nah... we want it to reflect any thing we can think of

[Today at 06:58:47 PM] Botched Programming:  can include different websites as reference

[Today at 07:00:11 PM] Botched Programming: We can talk about losing freedom of choice by being in treatment centers

[Today at 07:00:15 PM] Che Gookin: yeah.. well what would make you think?

[Today at 07:00:28 PM] Che Gookin: gotta hit them in the first few sentences.. or you've lost them.

[Today at 07:00:57 PM] Che Gookin: What is the biggest criticism of AA by active members?

[Today at 07:01:10 PM] Botched Programming: and brainwashing techniques used by treatment centers that are followed up by 12 step programming

[Today at 07:01:31 PM] Che Gookin: See you'd loose them with that if you slap them in the face with it.

[Today at 07:01:56 PM] Che Gookin: you have to start them on the road of catching a clue.. can't stuff it up their ass no matter how tempting.

[Today at 07:02:31 PM] Botched Programming: We should create a think tank in YLF

[Today at 07:03:08 PM] Che Gookin: Well I want to do that for Teen Challenge for sure.

[Today at 07:03:48 PM] Botched Programming: But I do want to deliver more papers for sure

[Today at 07:04:10 PM] Che Gookin: I have to say the common denominator amongst all of these is lack of freedom of expression

[Today at 07:04:29 PM] Che Gookin: like in AA if you talk about something not alky related it is considered "cross talk".

[Today at 07:04:58 PM] Che Gookin: Teen Challenge is pretty much if you don't start with Jesus and end with Jesus you are in deep doo doo.

[Today at 07:05:38 PM] Che Gookin: I think playing on that theme of lack of freedom of expression could tap into a vien of resentment and get some decent results.

[Today at 07:05:56 PM] Botched Programming: The big thing that I experienced in NA was how working the steps was the only thing that was going to change your life

[Today at 07:06:38 PM] Che Gookin: yeah.

[Today at 07:07:00 PM] Che Gookin: well I suggest playing on both themes, but be brief and quick about it.

[Today at 07:07:05 PM] Botched Programming: also the thought that if one ever used again the only result is Jails, Institutions, and death

[Today at 07:07:25 PM] Che Gookin: and then provide somel links for them to follow up on

[Today at 07:08:36 PM] Che Gookin: thing is... you have to change content every few weeks.

[Today at 07:08:43 PM] Botched Programming: Which of our people can clearly articulate this stuff and put it in a soft gently way???

[Today at 07:08:52 PM] Che Gookin: ummm... hmmmm Not me.

[Today at 07:09:09 PM] Che Gookin: the question is less Articulation.. and more catchy.

[Today at 07:09:09 PM] Botched Programming: the most soft spoken is the one loudest heard

[Today at 07:09:44 PM] Che Gookin: and sometimes a picture speaks a thousand words.

[Today at 07:09:57 PM] Botched Programming: true

[Today at 07:10:15 PM] Botched Programming: well time to fly.... hit me up tomorrow

[Today at 07:10:32 PM] Che Gookin: deffo... I'

[Today at 07:10:51 PM] Che Gookin: I'll start a think tank thread on the YLF forum.

[Today at 07:10:56 PM] Che Gookin: get this rolling.


Let's get some ideas going for some hard hitting fliers..

Discuss.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

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Re: Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2008, 01:37:38 AM »
Find ways to generate doubt, and then give them the means to exercise it and find out the facts for themselves.

Find different ways to go for people who are either new to the koolaid, or have been in on it a while.

Be clear and to the point.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2008, 01:46:17 AM »
1 picture speaks a thousand words.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ZenAgent

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Re: Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2008, 12:12:50 PM »
Use their own dogma against them.  Cite the professional opinions debunking their cult-ish ways.  ICSA's library is a fine place to look for info on the twelve-stepping teetotalitarians.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline Che Gookin

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Re: Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2008, 03:07:28 AM »
Perhaps you can post some specific examples of this to get the ball rolling?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ZenAgent

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Re: Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2008, 10:28:20 AM »
I'll look around.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline Botched Programming

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Re: Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2008, 12:06:09 PM »
After spending my years in the NA cult something that comes to mind is how just like any other cult, their literature is designed get in your head.

At the beginning of the meetings they pass out cards and read the propaganda that is written on them. What many people don't know is these are the words of "Jimmy K" the cult leader himself. If anyone has read NA's sacred book "The Basic Text," in almost every chapter in the first half has paragraphs that are "Italacized" these too are the words of their leader.

They say the message of the writings in the book is suppose to bring you hope, when it actually is designed to make a person think that they can not live without the program.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Che Gookin

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Re: Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2008, 12:13:22 PM »
just remember.. confronting a system based on illogical thinking is best approached with logical facts. the act of humiliating a member of na or a cult in general has been proven to have the exact opposite effect. this is demonstrated by rick ross and his bungling of the waco siege where he encouraged the feebs to humiliate david koresh to attempt to lower his standing amongst his followers. it obviously didn't work at waco,  and direct confrontation didn't work at Benchmark either.

at benchmark each and every student was given the chance at a bus ticket home, and some food money... none of them took it.

you want these fliers to be nonconfrontational, but at the same time thought provoking.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ZenAgent

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Re: Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2008, 02:50:00 PM »
Bill W. asked for a shot of whiskey before he kicked off, and the AA whackos around him refused, I guess to maintain Bill "died sober"...as if that really means shit.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline ZenAgent

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Re: Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2008, 02:58:44 PM »
http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_bookre ... thecli.htm

There's a place to start...interesting quote, although maybe not useful in a flier critical of just the AA/NA crowd:

"Hopson on the AA 12-step programs being applied to non-substance-abuse treatment in an attempt to add nonreligious spirituality to therapy."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline Che Gookin

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Re: Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2008, 09:42:34 PM »
Well I'd suggest rather than attempting to actively draw someone away from the culty thinking of NA, we may want to consider putting the information out their for them to digest. Let them figure it out for themselves, and make avaliable for them a place to easily access further information.

I'd steer away from the boiler plate rebuttals.

I'd avoid attempting to diminish the standing of the leaders or backers of whatever group it is.

Just put some facts out there in easily consumable portions. (2 inch rule applies)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline sicktomystomach

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Re: Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2008, 02:33:57 AM »
From: http://www.aarc.ab.ca/the_AARC_program.html

The AARC program offers comprehensive assessment, treatment and aftercare, based on the concepts of:

    * Twelve Step Recovery models of Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous (AA/NA)

The Twelve Traditions

Quote
One—Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity.

Except those who screw up too bad and are "banished"

Quote
Two—For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
That's why permission slips are required so youth can get a jacket from their parents when the season changes? And parents will be kicked out and lose contact with their own children if they miss a meeting to attend to something like changing residence without a permission given in advance.

Or - ONE authority... I thought everyone had their own "higher power" that would make as many authorities as there are clients and family members.

Quote
Three—The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.
And to renovate your house according to program standards, and to remove any children from the home (placing them in foster care if necessary) who can not participate in the program, and to not have any roommates or tenants who are not involved in the program, and to give the program more money than you can afford to give, and to lock up clients under the supervision of other clients in your home... and ... and ... and

Quote
Four—Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.
I don't imagine the female AARC clients who had to go "door knocking" for an MLA during a campaign did so "autonomously".

Quote
Five—Each group has but one primary purpose—to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.
That and to make money... lots of money. 

Quote
Six—An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.

An endorsement? http://www.sportcourtalberta.com/Adoles ... covery.pdf

Quote
Seven—Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.


One example of many:

AARC’s sixth annual “Tournament of Miracles” hosted by Bob Tessari, Tesco Corpo-
ration and the Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre (AARC) will be held at SilverTip
Golf Course in Canmore, on Thursday, August 19, 2004.
Every year has been a sell out, and this year will be no exception! Each year Tesco,
along with other sponsors and golfers help AARC raise over $100,000 for the teen
drug treatment centre. These funds help ensure no family is turned away because
they are unable to pay the full cost of treatment.
AARC reaches out to teens and their families who are in a bitter battle with the
ravages of addiction. The Centre is often the last hope for the adolescent family. To
date, AARC has graduated 251 clients, which includes over 650 family members.
The Calgary community benefits from the success of the AARC graduates. Inde-
pendent validation of AARC’s treatment outcomes reported that over 80% of our
graduates are today clean and sober, in school or working and reunited with their
families, instead of being a drain on society.
Dr. F. Dean Vause, the Board of Directors, the clients, families and staff of AARC are
indeed grateful for the continued support of Tesco Corporation.
“When I came into treatment, my life was a mess. My drug use was out of control
and I had lost everything in my life. Today I am a completely different person. I have
a job, I’m going to school, and most importantly, I am no longer bound by my addic-
tion.”
Ben - AARC Graduate
Karen McKay
Fund Development Manager


Self supporting -  :D

Also see http://www.thunderbay.ca/docs/business/3288.pdf Page 36 "Institutional" for more evidence of AARC's lack of outside contributions.

Quote
Eight—Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever nonprofessional, but our service centers may employ special workers.

Why are kids court ordered to anything non-professional? Why does a "non-professional" agency claim to cure mental illnesses which require "professionals" to treat? Why does the program go on about it's unique blend of personal and clinical experience? Why is Dean Vause referred to as a psychologist in the media if he isn't one? What do you call a doctor who treats the kids in the program and their judge-spouse who orders children there without parental consent? Non-professionals? Or are they the "special workers"?

Quote
Nine—A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.

Why are we expected to follow a "chain of command" if it's not organized? newcomer, oldcomer, oldtimer, graduate, peer counselor, clinical counselor... ? Sounds pretty organized.

Quote
Ten—Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.

The legal matters of a graduate would be an outside issue, and I would consider the following an opinion: In closing, I had the opportunity to spend a full day clinically addressing the
accident and the shame Amy felt. She felt horrible and deep guilt to the family
of the deceased.
From http://www.albertacourts.ab.ca/jdb/2003 ... pc0129.pdf

Quote
Eleven—Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films.

See Twelve

Quote
Twelve—Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.

Right. That's why AARC/Vause regularly graces the pages of the Calgary Sun and other media outlets and is a favorite of "Society Columnists"
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline try another castle

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Re: Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2009, 12:22:40 PM »
How about this?

Have a picture of a sobriety chip. (with an actual number value on it, such at 30 days, 5 years, etc. I'm leaning towards a large span of time, such as five years.) Then underneath the chip have it say "What are you really counting?" Then an URL to whatever you were wanting it to link to.


It's very nebulous, and only hints at something critical of 12 step. So it might pique their curiosity to check out the website. Maybe we can have a portal site that links to the other pages, and on the portal explain the full intent of the flier. I think that chips are one of the most telling things about 12 step, because it is a technique used to keep people in the fold. It's a shame-based deterrent to keep people from using, drinking, leaving, because if they do, they have to start their sobriety countdown all over again. (Not leaving directly, but the group uses fear in an attempt to convince the person that if they leave, it's only a matter of time before they start using again.)

It continues to remind you that you are part of a group, and the chips are little cookies of approval.

As someone who was in the fold 18+ months, I can tell you with authority that people who had time there way longer than what was required by the state would come in visibly fucked up and collect chips. My question was, if you are drinking/using, and you are no longer required to be there, why the fuck are you still there collecting chips that essentially say nothing about what you are really doing? Cause you are counting the amount of time you have been in 12 step, not how long you have been sober, that's why.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline FemanonFatal2.0

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Re: Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2009, 04:51:44 AM »
How about:

You ARE NOT powerless!

and go on to say how AA misleads their members into dependance and relapse by exploiting an addicts weakness instead of encouraging will power and self motivation.

or

Addiction is NOT a Disease

and go on to mention that a disease and a disorder are two different things and a behavior, such as choosing to injest a substance is neither.

AA is a CULT

and go on to make the similarities in comparison to other known aspects of cults.

or

Recovery is NOT a Religion

and go on to talk about the way that converting to a "god concept" is held as a requirement for recovery is not only unconstitutional but it is only evidence that AA/NA is only a modern day religious crusade.

Just a few ideas.

BTW if you need help with the design concept of these flyers let me know I can knock one out for ya.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
...Rebellion Becomes Duty...[/size]




[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]

Offline try another castle

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Re: Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2009, 04:55:46 AM »
Actually, on second thought, you should just put up fliers that advertise happy hour for all of the local bars. Free pitcher with every 30 day chip.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »