BEWARE SABOTEURS

[wesfager]

As you know there will be a conference in St. Pete July 25 - 27.  I will be a speaker at that conference.  FACTNet, with 30 million web page hits, is the most read cult awareness web based organization in the world.  Foreign governments go there to get information on cults.  

Rick Ross is an internationally known cult expert and has done as much as anyone to expose  post Seed Straights for what many of them are or were--destructive, mind-control cults.[1] Some person or persons has tried to descredit Mr. Ross on this board by throwing around data presented by the so-called Church of Scientology (TM).  Mr. Ross reports on that Church and that Church reports on Mr. Ross. I, for one, am not interested in what that Church has to say about anything.  Quite frankly, L. Ron Hubbard himself was one of the biggest liars the world has ever known.  

I understand there has been some in-fighting amongst our own people.  This is bad for business.  There's no need for our enemies who lurk here to know that stuff.  

When reputable outsiders like FACTNet or Rick Ross are invited in or volunteer to help us tell the story, one must realize that because  they report on cults,  there are going to be published reports against these people.  Please consider the source.

As for FACTNet's endorsement of the conference,  I would be extremely disappointed if anyone from our growing community of cult survivors did anything to intentionally sabotage our relationship with FACTNet.

Footnotes:
[1] I do not claim that all second generation Straights are abusive programs or mind control cults.

Thank you,

Wes Fager
Oakton, VA

[ This Message was edited by: wesfager on 2003-07-13 21:34 ]

[ This Message was edited by: wesfager on 2003-07-14 11:34 ]

[ This Message was edited by: wesfager on 2003-07-14 11:42 ]

[wesfager]

I wrote, "As for FACTNet's endorsement of the conference, I would be extremely disappointed if anyone from our growing community of cult survivors did anything to intentionally sabotage our relationship with FACTNet."

I, of course, mean:

"As for FACTNet's endorsement of the conference, I would be extremely disappointed if anyone from  OUR OWN GROWING COMMUNITY of cult survivors does  anything to intentionally sabotage our relationship with FACTNet, including anyone from OUR OWN COMMUNITY who intentionally portrays SAFETY in a bad light to FACTNet.

Wes



[ This Message was edited by: wesfager on 2003-07-14 03:16 ]

[Anonymous]

I wonder who is trying to sabatage the conference?  Could it be satan?  Or that other group of survivors, or are they one in the same.

[KIDSofEP]

"That other group of survivors"
...who would that be?  Do we now have factions, splinter groups, schisms, cells, camps, circles, and survivor rings?

[ClayL]

OH my Goodness,I must be waay of in deep roving center field. I have no idea what anyone is talking about.

CL

[Antigen]

I must be either extremely lazy or very cowardly. Your call. But I don't see a lot of need to do anything about this.

For one, trying to control what other people do is an excercise in diminishing returns. You'll wear yourself out and never get around to doing anything else.

For another, I've found that when people go around insulting me and telling lies about me, in the long run they're doing me a favor. People like that tend to burn their own bridges. Some folks figure that out about them pretty quick and give no credence to the lies. As for the rest, I'v been saved the trouble of having to find out some other way that that they're too dumb to consider the source.

In other words...
Them that knows me
Knows me well
And all the rest
Can go to Hell

The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.


--H.L. Mencken

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American P.O.W. 10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous

[Anonymous]

Nobody I know is trying to Sabotage any relationships with Rick Ross or FACTNET. We all pretty much agree with what he has to say about Straight and that's all that matters in this relationship. Whether or not we agree with Ross on non Straight related stuff is irrelevant as we are entitled to have opinions that differ with others, but I'm sure there is plenty of unity in that we acknowledge the problems surrounding Straight. But it is unreasonable to accept everything anyone says about everything all the time and require that as a prerequisite for relationships. We agree on the essentials: STRAIGHT SUCKS! Under that banner, our clarion call is unified.

[Anonymous]

yeah right anon, you are so fos it's dripping out of my monitor.  Obviously your version of honesty is right up there with Newton and and all the other assholes that ran straight.

[Anonymous]

To the contrary, I made not even one false statement in my post. I don't know of anyone personally who is out to sabotage relationships with Ross or FACTNET. I never said that they didn't exist though. The hostility of your response toward me is the reason for disunity on this board. Name calling and all that reactionary bull that made up your response to me is a sign that you are the one who is "FOS", not me.

I don't have to agree 100% with anyone to find agreement enough to hear out their views or have common ground with them. Do you really expect people who went through Straight to trust people blindly without any reservations, if you do, THAT is "FOS". I reserve the right to be objective about words people say. So, be specific, if you can, with what you don't like about my post. If you can't be, it's because I've just shot holes through your response. Those of us who whose thought processes were controlled in Straight simpy won't allow anyone to brainwash them into their viewpoints today.

I don't understand the fear in your response. What are you afraid of? Free speech? Okay, for the record, I endorse the relationship between FACTNET and the survivors of Straight on this board. I see no reason to hinder that, never have seen a reason to hinder that. But I still retain the right to have my own thoughts. I won't be dominated by anyone's fear and I will speak my mind. You can call me "the enemy", but there are many here who recognize me as "a friend". So, put down your weapon, and come out with your hands up. Your days of disinformation are over.

[Antigen]

On 2003-07-17 02:42:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I don't understand the fear in your response. What are you afraid of? Free speech? "

No, I don't think that's it. I think people are afraid of cult members of various stripe pulling all kinds of unscrupulous and dirty tricks becase, well, we know them fairly well.

America when will you be angelic
When will you take off your clothes....
America after all it is you and I who are perfect
Not the next world.
--Allen Ginsberg

[Anonymous]

What the hell is all this "cult member" bullcrap?! It's not my fault that some of you are paranoid, but I am not a "cult member" and why the hell would you suggest this? What is your idea of a cult member anyway? Someone who says what he thinks gets called a "cult member". Well that just stinks to high heaven. Ah but who cares.

I had thought that this quote was the theme of this forum:

Here's freedom to him who would read;
Here's freedom to him who would write;
None ever feared that the truth should be heard,
But those who the truth would indict.
-- author unknown (circa 1914)

Don't be hypocritical. You write what you want without any fear of reprisal or being falsely labeled "a cult member" in the present tense.

What dirty tricks? Am I tricking people by suggesting that we think for ourselves? How could that ever be construed as a "dirty trick". I thought that was "general common knowledge". Keep in mind, I haven't even formed an opinion yet on a certain something, and I am getting clobbered by the thought police on this board. I think you are just hyper. Or maybe you DO have some people here who are actively working to discredit people, but I'm not. I've got much better things to do. I just like posting.

I don't expect people to agree with me all the time, but don't call me a "cult member". That's just wrong and hurtful. I've got love for people here. I don't even get involved with the "deep things" of ISAAC or FACTNet or the other acronyms. I check out Wes's site every now and then. It's quite good. But I enjoy relating to people here mostly. There are real people here, with real problems, that need uplifting. But it is my choice to stay out of the "other stuff" (except when the the "other stuff" becomes a black hole sucking me in against my will and turning me into a friggin' cult member ::ftard:: ).

[Antigen]

On 2003-07-18 01:07:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What the hell is all this "cult member" bullcrap?! It's not my fault that some of you are paranoid, but I am not a "cult member" and why the hell would you suggest this?

Are you refering to this?
"No, I don't think that's it. I think people are afraid of cult members of various stripe pulling all kinds of unscrupulous and dirty tricks becase, well, we know them fairly well."

If so, I didn't call you a cult member. And I don't even think it. What I mean is that, because Rick Ross is an enemy of Scientology, Scientologist tend to attack him. Similarly, Straightlings, DFAF people, PFC parents and staff and others occasionally come around here and verbally attack people who criticize their cults. Check out the Elan forum for an extreme experience.

So when you come along with this years old attack story on Rick Ross, well the first response was to tell you to consider the source. But you got all bent out of shape and made a persecution out of it.

Buddy, no one's accusing you of anything. Why must you keep going on asif they had.

This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
         
http://www.aidoann.com/guncontrol.html' target='_new'>Adolph Hitler

[Anonymous]

Well, because you were responding to MY post, that's why! But I'm glad that you have cleared things up.

I started to write a lengthy post about cults, interventions on cults (when is it appopriate etc.) religious liberty, the constitution, the unusual alliance between the ACLU and citizen militias, 501c3 (tax exempt status w/ gov't) and it's restrictions on political speech for those who have one, and on and on and on and luckily (for you) my aol got disconnected and erased my entire message. Ha. I guess it wasn't "meant to be". It would have opened pandora's box and there would be no end to the feuding on this forum.

Oh it could have been an interesting debate, or a miserable neverending journey through "opinion hell". And so with that in mind, never mind. Maybe on a different forum perhaps?

[ClayL]

I can't tell you how many times that has happened to me. Probably not enough, but a lot....

CL

[Antigen]

On 2003-07-19 22:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Well, because you were responding to MY post, that's why! But I'm glad that you have cleared things up.

I suppose I'm way to litteral. That does get me in trouble. Once, a couple of years ago, someone asked rhetorically why Conservative Christians get so violently bent out of shape over things like long hair, tie-dye, beads and pot leaves. Well, I answered that it's because a lot of them associate all of those symbols with a vast Communist conspiracy to take away the youth of the nation and make them into zombies who would then come back and kidnap them and brutally murder them and.... all the rest of the horror stories that were floating around during the rather contentious years surrounding the Nixon admin. It was an ugly couple of weeks after that.

I still stand by my answer, though. That is it, the hot button that drives normally kind, gentle, responsible people out of their friggin' minds and results in things like the Baptist minister who threatened to beat a friend of mine with a baseball bat for gathering signatures for a medical marijuana petition just outside of legal distance from a polling place.

Doesn't mean I think my friend is a commie and I don't think you're a clam, either. But I do think I gave a reasonable answer to the question, "why is everyone jumping all over this."

Thought that is silenced is always rebellious. Majorities, of course, are often mistaken. This is why the silencing of minorities is necessarily dangerous. Criticism and dissent are the indispensable antidote to major delusions.
--  ALAN BARTH, The Loyalty of Free Men, 1951.