Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Hyde Schools
Re: HAPA
heretik:
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---
--- Quote from: "heretik" ---Listen I am not sure why you are acting in this manner but I see no need to talk to me like this. I did not know that my word would be subjected to such inquiry. I have no need to lie or embellish. I received a email/Pm the other night, I have noticed you are also a moderator. Let me make myself clear please, I am not this person. So please stop with the subtle sarcasm, if you have a question just ask.
Let me explain myself a little better, my first sweat I did was at a Nordic Lodge with a Finnish family. Some people would confuse this to a steam room but in fact they were carrying out a Indian ritual, I was 14 years old, that was over 40 years ago. I said hundreds Ursus, I believe I was being moderate. It is not uncommon for people to sweat on a weekly bases, which would then put the number at 52 per year x 10 years, that would be hundreds. I have been sweating for 40 years with a average of 30 times a year, some years less then others.
Addiction to sweating well if this is how you choose to see it, I would say fine. I could find more destructive venues to be hung up on.
--- End quote ---
What you're describing and what James Ray was doing are two very different animals.
I still don't get this 'guru chasing' culture.
--- End quote ---
I agree, Anne. For that matter, doing a sweat in a Finnish or Nordic steam house / sauna, or however heretik chooses to describe it, is also a lot different than the sweat that takes place during the New Warrior Training Adventure (or TAW).
· · ·
Fwiw, for reasons of relevance, a currently active thread re. the James Ray sweat lodge tragedy that occurred last year:
* aparently, adults want to go to programs too
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28923
--- End quote ---
I mentioned the Nordic Lodge because this is where we actually did our sweats, outside on the grounds of the Nordic Lodge. A finnish family owned the lodge back in the seventies. This lodge was in Kenyon R.I.(part of Charlestown R.I.) off of Rt. 2. In and around this area there is a rather large population of Narragansett, Mohegan, Wampanoag and the Algonquian Indians. So sweating with Hihawatha Brown, Tarzan Brown, Sunny Spears, Thunderbolt Spears, Hizi Brown, Randy Noka, Sunny Noka and a mixture of others (all natives I grew up with) was not unusual.
There were actual sweat huts made from Mother nature herself or as the Narragansetts like to do was burrow into the side of a hill and hollow out a room, stick a pipe down through the top so when things got to hot they would open the entrance and this flume. There idea off cross ventilation, I will say, it worked.
Off topic for a second; clarification.
http://www.google.com/search?q=+Nordic+ ... en___US378
Today you will find the Nordic Lodge to be a dining extravaganza, absolutely superb. I swam in this pond often. They had a dock that went about 40ft into the lake at the entrance of the dock (on top of the dock) sat the Steam/Sauna house. In the winter we would jump in the freezing water then run back to the sauna. What a rush.
Back on topic;
So as you can see the sweating I was involved in was not any different then I had done with MKP.
As far as this character James Ray. I read a bit more about him and this guy is just to much for me.
Ursus:
--- Quote from: "heretik" ---Back on topic;
So as you can see the sweating I was involved in was not any different then I had done with MKP.
As far as this character James Ray. I read a bit more about him and this guy is just to much for me.
--- End quote ---
Involvement with MKP entails a lot more than a few sweats. It also entails a fair amount of indoctrination, if you will, into a certain mindset as facilitated by group exercises of male-oriented newage psychobabble, confrontational pseudo therapy, as well as various experiential exercises over the course of the New Warrior Training Adventure (or TAW).
And then, of course, there are the "I-Groups" you can participate in afterwards, to keep you in tune with "the culture of your peers."
This is not so very different from James Ray's motivational speaker exploits, save that a single person is allegedly at the helm rather than a group of folk, as well as differences in specific word usage in the requisite special lingo. Come to think of it, this same psychological toolbox from the human potential movement, IMHO, is resorted to by Hyde School and always has been! :D
What all of these groups have in common is their negation of the value of one's critical thinking abilities, the use of experientials to enhance the impact of "The Message," and the use of "The Group" to speed up the inculcation process and stuff cotton into the mouths of potential nay-sayers, not to mention the economic benefits of using recruits to do the job of recruiting.
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: "heretik" ---Let me explain myself a little better, my first sweat I did was at a Nordic Lodge with a Finnish family. Some people would confuse this to a steam room but in fact they were carrying out a Indian ritual, I was 14 years old, that was over 40 years ago. I said hundreds Ursus, I believe I was being moderate. It is not uncommon for people to sweat on a weekly bases, which would then put the number at 52 per year x 10 years, that would be hundreds. I have been sweating for 40 years with a average of 30 times a year, some years less then others.
Addiction to sweating well if this is how you choose to see it, I would say fine. I could find more destructive venues to be hung up on.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---What you're describing and what James Ray was doing are two very different animals.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: "heretik" ---I am not sure what you mean by this statement?
--- End quote ---
Sorry, don't know how to help ya there. It's pretty clear to me. James Ray was not doing what you described above. I have no problem with 'sweats' done as their intended.....I DO have a problem with unqualified people running their own version of them for profit. The way I see James Ray, from everything I've read, is that he came across an idea (in his case, Native American sweats lodges), saw a huge opportunity to fulfill two things for him. To make a shitload of money and to be viewed as a "guru".
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---I still don't get this 'guru chasing' culture.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: "heretik" ---I am not chasing Guru's Anne. Don't see the need for one.
--- End quote ---
I wasn't really referring to you, moreso the people that seem to run from self-help guru to self-help guru, but if the shoe fits.
Ursus:
Going back to a previous post:
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---Along similar lines of inquiry...
--- Quote from: "heretik" ---Sitting in some Psychiatrist's office just wasn't working for me, I needed to be connected holistically. The natural earth made this possible for me.
Large Group Awarness Therapy can be therapeutic in so far as serving to restore good health, being healthy and promoting recovery from unhappiness. This would be the LGAT's I have encountered in workshops I support. Yes MKP does have aggressive in your face LGAT's, I am not interested in those particularly. They just don't appeal to me because of my past issues, so I would not ascribe to them but I also can't say they don't work for others. They do, I have witnessed this.
--- End quote ---
Gee. I had always understood LGAT to stand for Large Group Awareness Training... Could you possibly explain to me how the Mankind Project equates "training" with "therapy?"
Moreover, could you go into a lil more depth about the so-called therapeutic benefits? Do you believe that MKP considers their NWTA or TAW to confer benefits or insights analogous to those obtained through therapy, as your post above states vis a vis your own experience?
--- End quote ---
@heretik: Still waiting to hear about those so-called therapeutic benefits...
Also, could you possibly, if you feel up to it, share some more specifics as to your positive experiences with the Mankind Project? Your descriptions thus far have been somewhat vague, and more focused on your time in the Finnish / Nordic sauna than on what did or did not transpire during your New Warrior Training Adventure... Thanks!
Anne Bonney:
Just even the phrase "New Warrior Training" would give me pause for thought. I mean, is this meant to bring about peace in one's life or become some "warrior". And a warrior for what?
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