Parents who put their kids in program don't care about them

[TheWho]

Like this:  The link (to the original post) is at the bottom.

My son was at ASR when base camp existed (he hated it) and he really changed a lot in Costa Rica (he apparently loved it.) He has written many essays (in others schools--he was only 15 when he left ASR) and I can think of no reason he would "lie" subsequently. He loved CR. I can certainly agree that giving the party line back could be a serious problem if groups were as coercive as described but that my son was still writing about CR in college admission essays seems uncoerced to me.

My son kept all his written work--even the self study which I guess was a severe punishment, although he did not describe it as such at the time. However, reading it (with him) years later, he explained his thought processes and it seems that he gained from putting his thoughts into writing. If he had to sit that would have been fine with him--standing at a meeting would not have been. However, the content of the self-study really seems to be the point and it is self-evidently valuable to him and to me, sharing it later.

I agree te education was mediocre but since my son did not like school anyway, I don't think there was a lot lost in 14 months. He did better in school upon returning home, so I think his increased motivation for living allowed him to catch up whatever was poorly taught (or not taught) at ASR. His SAT scores were fine but maybe they would have been anyway with or without ASR.

Currently my son is 19 and a student in NYC. He is in contact with several members of his peer group and most are doing OK--the exceptions seem to be those with heavy drug problems when they entered. That was not a problem for my son but I wondered when he was there if those students who were clearly addicted to drugs were well served in the program at ASR.

I think program match is important. I did not use an educational consultant. I wanted a program that was structured but not strict b-mod, had no sports teams and had an "artsy" student population where violence was not tolerated. The day before our first family resolution, a member of the peer group was kicked out for hitting someone. Although I was sorry for that boy, I was very glad my son was in a program where that would happen; if my son had felt bullied, he never would have opened his mouth.

While he was there, my son filed a complaint in writing against the PE teacher because he thought he was too much like a drill sergeant. This complaint was treated seriously and the PE teacher left. My son was depressed and rather shy (but very compassionate) so it is hard for me to reconcile what I am reading with him filing a complaint. If he had felt unsafe, he would not have done that.

Finally, I thought the consulting psychiatrist's approach to medication was cautious (which is good) and far better than we had experienced in the community--where meds are thrown around too freely IMO. Like another parent, my son had a say in his meds--mainly trying to find one that would lift the depression with the fewest side effects.

In short, I know no program is above criticism but getting away from the public school bullies (and then finishing h.s. at a private day school) gave my son the break he needed to get some perspective that adulthood could work for him if he could survive childhood.

As far as the person who said parents were not supposed to come to the weekends?? Every parent of the kids in the peer group was there including divorced parents who were not otherwise speaking. One child's parent could not go the CR and she appeared unhappy about that. Every other family had one or both parents in CR.

I was directed to this site by someone who is very confused about what to do for her son--she has exhausted local options and she fears the looming drug exposure in high school (with justification I think.) She knows me and my son well. She knows that I didn't just want to get rid of him for a while--and she can see how he has changed from a highly problematic young teen into a functional young adult. I am interested in whether ASR positively contributed to that change--or as someone stated, he "just grew up." Some of each is possible--but I fear that at home with the bullies, the huge high school, and the potential for serious drug use, and suicidality, he would not have survived to grow up.

Just a Mom

http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=242405#242405

[Anonymous]

That's nice.

It was bullshit when it was posted.

Reposting bullshit doesn't make it anything other than bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Guess that means you care. Of course you do, as a child torturer. What? No chance at social promotion outside the confines of cult? Take out your anger on helpless abduction victims? You are pathetic, but I don’t pity you. I hope you get the sentence your victims need.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=1080&start=0
Here's a link to one of the testimonies that should work. If not, well, just go to the Aspen Forum. It takes a little digging and research, but all those testimonies are there. And any caring official/parent doesn't mind a lil research.
And I guess we agree that these testimonies are all true now, as the "argument" was that they can't be believed because the "links didn’t work." Glad that's settled. Aspen is an abusive cult.

Well we have to believe you have fabricated the stories, once again, unless you can get these to work.  You try to trick us by making the first two link up and then assume no one will check the others.  This time you got caught.

http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=60

http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=30

http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=15

I will show you... I will post a story and then provide a link to the original post so that it can be verified.
...

God, you’re unbelievable. "pnce again?" "writing stories with links that don't work cause I don't think that 'we' will check them?" You know what you're saying is gobeldy gook, but you post it anyway....Incredible. You really are a tried and true cultie, and employee of BAIN, owner of Aspen education, funder of, and founded by mitt Romney.

Honestly, who do you think you're fooling? You know the only people who come here are survivors, right? The few stray officials get grossed out by your spectacle of accusing people of "writing stories". People are not that creative. This crap exists outside the limits of the human imagination. And what is the agenda “I haveâ€

[Anonymous]

Here's more fun info on asr. Inadvertently, the who gets the sick shit at asr on another thread, getting it more negative attention. If u read through this thread, you'll find  the other survivor testimonies posted. It's funny ‘cause a real dad who was thinking of sending his kid there, comes in at the end and says that he read most of it and is terrified he even thought of sending his kid there...that’s how actual parents respond to page after page of heinous cult abuse... Contrast that with that who’s creepy p.r. darting occlusion


http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... &start=170


_ We reviewed the law. Here's the update (moved from another thread):
Guest wrote:
You are correct, Robert.
Quote:
"DSS passed the information on to the state Office of Child Care Services, which sent an investigator, Eric Lieberman, to the academy.

Academy administrators told Lieberman it was true that students were denied sleep for 19 or 20 hours during the first LifeStep session, called "The Truth." Staff and students might stay up all night, then break for a nap between 5 and 7 a.m., then continue the session until 2 the next afternoon, the administrators said.

It (OCCS) cited the school for"using behavior management techniques which subject students to verbal abuse, ridicule and humiliation, denial ofsufficient sleep, and repetitive exercise as a response to an infraction of a rule."

OCCS also cited the school for monitoring students' telephone calls and mail. The agency said that the right to privacy incommunications, even for juveniles, can be restricted only by court order -- for example (editing note: this is exactly the argument TheWho used earlier in the thread and it's 100% illegal!), if a therapist believes that the teen's communication should be monitored, perhaps to support a young person through a crisis in relations with his orher family -- and then only temporarily.


This is undeniable proof that ASR is willingly, wontonly and intentionally breaking a law which absolutely does apply to them - and they've been doing it for years.

So this puts this issue to rest. Not only is ASR breaking the law, they've already been cited for it. Thanks for contacting ASR, Who and posting the results of your conversation. You've incriminated them. They must be thrilled about your being their field representative/mouthpiece!

You were saying, Who?________________

[Anonymous]

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22078
 Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:43 pm    Post subject: Island View is HELL
 

________________________________________
I am a now 17 year old girl from Canada. My parents sent me to Island View June 8th 2005, they thought it would be of benifit to my well being and depression problems. The truth was along with extreme verbal abuse and deprivition of my rights, I broke my wrist during a mandatory game of team competition(keep in mind this is the least of it, it's just one example that is "undeniably" legitimate.) they refused to take me to the hospital disreguarding that I was crying hysterically. For 3 months after my injury along with being forced to eat a massive breakfast which I had to "check off" with staff I was forced to do push ups, chin ups and eventually since my complaints did not head my parents were charged for me to lift weights to "strengthen" my broken wrist with the physical therapist. Finally when I was allowed to go home for a visit in November I had it x-rayed revealing it had started out as a hairline fracture and would have just needed a cast for six week but had now been displaced and healed incorrectly. I had been reprimanded for my complaints as well "special groups" were held on my lying and I was talked to with such disrespect and provacation it was unbelievable. Finally after much more aggravation and time spent in the "time out room" (a hexagon shaped cynderblock wall room where i was forced to sit on a cold tile floor) I had my hip bone taken to put in my wrist on February 7th 2006, I was flown back to Utah a week after where I was forced to walk around and not spend time to recover and treated like I was causing them termoil. 2 months after my bone graft in April I had to run "the mile" I can't tell you the constant everyday abuse I spent 13 months going through there. It's now june 2007 and my wrist is still not healed. every night i have nightmares about being back there and this weekend i was denied access to the states to drop my younger sister off at weight loss camp in new york because of the record they gave me after running away on a visit home and being 16 i couldnt be sent back . that was a year ago. i hope to sue the motherfuckers. i wish i could show ever parents what a day there is like.

[Anonymous]

Saying you are abused won't get you help, and your abusers punished.

A girl I know escaped a torture-cult, reported her abuse to a hospital. Instead of removing her from the environment until it was proved safe, and open a court case, the police merely sent her back.

Thanks, old friend, for some good sense and reason.

Why? Why are abusers not punished and kids not protected?

Firstly, there is corruption.

Secondly, there's the wealth of the torture-cults intimidating honest and brave DAs.

Thirdly, there's that by the time kids are strong enough to come forward, 5- 10 years have passed, along with the statute of limitations.

Fourthly, authorities are u unwilling or unclear on how to penalize abductors who, with the permission of guardians, kidnap humans and torture them

All in one: Snake oil... patent medicine.

Check out Dr. Linda Hazzard

Now there's a true believer. Believed so hard she cured herself to death. History never repeats itself, but it always rhymes.

In a very real sense, yeah, your attempt at sarcasm is just too true to be recognized as sarcasm, guest. And you remain a welcome guest. Preachin ta da choir is like playing with dead puppies. I'd rather waste my time talking politics with a drunk assed hucklebuck playboy. Pearls before swine. But this is a public forum so we have an audience. I've always wanted to drag this argument out into the more commonly accepted reality and see how it plays. Thanks, sincerely, for showing the rare sack to play into that. Belief in one's convictions, however misguided, is still an admirable quality. I'm not being snide, I mean that.

These kids are pretty normal. They're not the Rockwellian propaganda characters that never existed even in the day. Ask any old timer, they'll laugh to keep from crying then go quiet as they contemplate the fact that they'll too soon be dependent on this generation's dim wit for basic care. They'll do this on the way to the liquor store cause, sometimes, analgesic is the best you can do and they have their own prejudices against better varieties.

The kids are normal. The DOE quacks' fictitious "normal" kid is fucke up! Any kid who hasn't got the proper damage or the good luck and accumen to pass for one who does is tagged and bagged by the time they hit middle school.

Everyone's looking for a cure. If someone made little brain pills like Carter's little liver pills today they'd make a mint. Oh wait, they are! And when the pills don't work or the kid sells them for $5 hit in the locker room (as any pragmatic, right thinking capitalist would do) then we come into the freeish market answer; we just fucking brainwash them over to our way of thinking.

Just the other night, my good friend asked me--confrontationally--what the hell you do with a little girl who's cutting herself. I told him the only true and correct answer I know. I don't know. I don't know the kid, the parents, the situation. You have to know the kid well and love them well and forever. You can't pay somebody to do that for you. But there sure are a lot of hucksters, some self deluded as hell and those are the kinder souls, who will gleefully take your money for the empty promise. Count on it. If that fucks up your world try Dr. Linda Hazzard's starvation cure. It works if ya work it!

[Anonymous]

Saying you are abused won't get you help, and your abusers punished.

A girl I know escaped a torture-cult, reported her abuse to a hospital. Instead of removing her from the environment until it was proved safe, and open a court case, the police merely sent her back.

Thanks, old friend, for some good sense and reason.

Why? Why are abusers not punished and kids not protected?

Firstly, there is corruption.

Secondly, there's the wealth of the torture-cults intimidating honest and brave DAs.

Thirdly, there's that by the time kids are strong enough to come forward, 5- 10 years have passed, along with the statute of limitations.

Fourthly, authorities are u unwilling or unclear on how to penalize abductors who, with the permission of guardians, kidnap humans and torture them

All in one: Snake oil... patent medicine.

Check out Dr. Linda Hazzard

Now there's a true believer. Believed so hard she cured herself to death. History never repeats itself, but it always rhymes.

In a very real sense, yeah, your attempt at sarcasm is just too true to be recognized as sarcasm, guest. And you remain a welcome guest. Preachin ta da choir is like playing with dead puppies. I'd rather waste my time talking politics with a drunk assed hucklebuck playboy. Pearls before swine. But this is a public forum so we have an audience. I've always wanted to drag this argument out into the more commonly accepted reality and see how it plays. Thanks, sincerely, for showing the rare sack to play into that. Belief in one's convictions, however misguided, is still an admirable quality. I'm not being snide, I mean that.

These kids are pretty normal. They're not the Rockwellian propaganda characters that never existed even in the day. Ask any old timer, they'll laugh to keep from crying then go quiet as they contemplate the fact that they'll too soon be dependent on this generation's dim wit for basic care. They'll do this on the way to the liquor store cause, sometimes, analgesic is the best you can do and they have their own prejudices against better varieties.

The kids are normal. The DOE quacks' fictitious "normal" kid is fucke up! Any kid who hasn't got the proper damage or the good luck and accumen to pass for one who does is tagged and bagged by the time they hit middle school.

Everyone's looking for a cure. If someone made little brain pills like Carter's little liver pills today they'd make a mint. Oh wait, they are! And when the pills don't work or the kid sells them for $5 hit in the locker room (as any pragmatic, right thinking capitalist would do) then we come into the freeish market answer; we just fucking brainwash them over to our way of thinking.

Just the other night, my good friend asked me--confrontationally--what the hell you do with a little girl who's cutting herself. I told him the only true and correct answer I know. I don't know. I don't know the kid, the parents, the situation. You have to know the kid well and love them well and forever. You can't pay somebody to do that for you. But there sure are a lot of hucksters, some self deluded as hell and those are the kinder souls, who will gleefully take your money for the empty promise. Count on it. If that fucks up your world try Dr. Linda Hazzard's starvation cure. It works if ya work it![/quote]

[Anonymous]

Saying you are abused won't get you help, and your abusers punished.

A girl I know escaped a torture-cult, reported her abuse to a hospital. Instead of removing her from the environment until it was proved safe, and open a court case, the police merely sent her back.

Thanks, old friend, for some good sense and reason.

Why? Why are abusers not punished and kids not protected?

Firstly, there is corruption.

Secondly, there's the wealth of the torture-cults intimidating honest and brave DAs.

Thirdly, there's that by the time kids are strong enough to come forward, 5- 10 years have passed, along with the statute of limitations.

Fourthly, authorities are u unwilling or unclear on how to penalize abductors who, with the permission of guardians, kidnap humans and torture them

All in one: Snake oil... patent medicine.

Check out Dr. Linda Hazzard

Now there's a true believer. Believed so hard she cured herself to death. History never repeats itself, but it always rhymes.

In a very real sense, yeah, your attempt at sarcasm is just too true to be recognized as sarcasm, guest. And you remain a welcome guest. Preachin ta da choir is like playing with dead puppies. I'd rather waste my time talking politics with a drunk assed hucklebuck playboy. Pearls before swine. But this is a public forum so we have an audience. I've always wanted to drag this argument out into the more commonly accepted reality and see how it plays. Thanks, sincerely, for showing the rare sack to play into that. Belief in one's convictions, however misguided, is still an admirable quality. I'm not being snide, I mean that.

These kids are pretty normal. They're not the Rockwellian propaganda characters that never existed even in the day. Ask any old timer, they'll laugh to keep from crying then go quiet as they contemplate the fact that they'll too soon be dependent on this generation's dim wit for basic care. They'll do this on the way to the liquor store cause, sometimes, analgesic is the best you can do and they have their own prejudices against better varieties.

The kids are normal. The DOE quacks' fictitious "normal" kid is fucke up! Any kid who hasn't got the proper damage or the good luck and accumen to pass for one who does is tagged and bagged by the time they hit middle school.

Everyone's looking for a cure. If someone made little brain pills like Carter's little liver pills today they'd make a mint. Oh wait, they are! And when the pills don't work or the kid sells them for $5 hit in the locker room (as any pragmatic, right thinking capitalist would do) then we come into the freeish market answer; we just fucking brainwash them over to our way of thinking.

Just the other night, my good friend asked me--confrontationally--what the hell you do with a little girl who's cutting herself. I told him the only true and correct answer I know. I don't know. I don't know the kid, the parents, the situation. You have to know the kid well and love them well and forever. You can't pay somebody to do that for you. But there sure are a lot of hucksters, some self deluded as hell and those are the kinder souls, who will gleefully take your money for the empty promise. Count on it. If that fucks up your world try Dr. Linda Hazzard's starvation cure. It works if ya work it![/quote]

[Anonymous]

Saying you are abused won't get you help, and your abusers punished.

A girl I know escaped a torture-cult, reported her abuse to a hospital. Instead of removing her from the environment until it was proved safe, and open a court case, the police merely sent her back.

Thanks, old friend, for some good sense and reason.

Why? Why are abusers not punished and kids not protected?

Firstly, there is corruption.

Secondly, there's the wealth of the torture-cults intimidating honest and brave DAs.

Thirdly, there's that by the time kids are strong enough to come forward, 5- 10 years have passed, along with the statute of limitations.

Fourthly, authorities are u unwilling or unclear on how to penalize abductors who, with the permission of guardians, kidnap humans and torture them

All in one: Snake oil... patent medicine.

Check out Dr. Linda Hazzard

Now there's a true believer. Believed so hard she cured herself to death. History never repeats itself, but it always rhymes.

In a very real sense, yeah, your attempt at sarcasm is just too true to be recognized as sarcasm, guest. And you remain a welcome guest. Preachin ta da choir is like playing with dead puppies. I'd rather waste my time talking politics with a drunk assed hucklebuck playboy. Pearls before swine. But this is a public forum so we have an audience. I've always wanted to drag this argument out into the more commonly accepted reality and see how it plays. Thanks, sincerely, for showing the rare sack to play into that. Belief in one's convictions, however misguided, is still an admirable quality. I'm not being snide, I mean that.

These kids are pretty normal. They're not the Rockwellian propaganda characters that never existed even in the day. Ask any old timer, they'll laugh to keep from crying then go quiet as they contemplate the fact that they'll too soon be dependent on this generation's dim wit for basic care. They'll do this on the way to the liquor store cause, sometimes, analgesic is the best you can do and they have their own prejudices against better varieties.

The kids are normal. The DOE quacks' fictitious "normal" kid is fucke up! Any kid who hasn't got the proper damage or the good luck and accumen to pass for one who does is tagged and bagged by the time they hit middle school.

Everyone's looking for a cure. If someone made little brain pills like Carter's little liver pills today they'd make a mint. Oh wait, they are! And when the pills don't work or the kid sells them for $5 hit in the locker room (as any pragmatic, right thinking capitalist would do) then we come into the freeish market answer; we just fucking brainwash them over to our way of thinking.

Just the other night, my good friend asked me--confrontationally--what the hell you do with a little girl who's cutting herself. I told him the only true and correct answer I know. I don't know. I don't know the kid, the parents, the situation. You have to know the kid well and love them well and forever. You can't pay somebody to do that for you. But there sure are a lot of hucksters, some self deluded as hell and those are the kinder souls, who will gleefully take your money for the empty promise. Count on it. If that fucks up your world try Dr. Linda Hazzard's starvation cure. It works if ya work it![/quote]

[Anonymous]

The group of parents I’m speaking of couldn't be described as sociopaths. I don’t know if anyone can be. The Mentally ill are described with labels like “sociopathâ€

[Botched Programming]

Seems everyone is debating on whether or not the child needs to go to a program.  The majority of the kids on the board seem to think it is all in the parents mind and there is nothing wrong with them.  This is a typical childs reaction… I thought my folks were always wrong too.
But bottom line is the parents are in charge, if they see something wrong  they are going to seek a solution for their child… the kid has little to say  in the matter.. the same as if the child had a broken arm they are not going to discuss whether or not the child should see a doctor…they are going to seek advice and do the right thing.  If the child objects they will console him/her the best they can but they still need to get to the hospital, especially if they care for their child.

Up to 30,000 children benefit from programs each year and a hand full are not and that is what you are reading here.  Very few kids are abused in programs, in my opinion, because they would come out naming names and holding peoples feet to the fire instead of being obscure and blaming the industry as a whole.

If someone abused me when I was a teen, especially in school, people would know it!!  I would write his name in bold letters across the sky until I got my day in court and I would watch them cuff him and carry him off to rot in jail….. but you don’t see that passion here… abuse has been redefined here to mean things like not having a cell phone or moving wood across the property, only being able to talk to their parents once per week (for many it is more than they talked to them when they were home)… but anyway I think in all fairness to the readers it is important to keep it all in perspective.



...

Oh my God Who.....

You are all freaking talk. Here we are finally getting info out to people, (partially due to the botched up programming that was done to us during our experiences, partially due to technology of today) and you basicly call us liars.

If you would have been sent to a program when you were a teenager, people would not have believed you, because at that point you have been labeled, programmed, and the parent's being programmed as well (This is where you partially fit as you are a supposedly a program parent, as well as the other catagory, you are having program dollars hit your pocket for providing damage control).

Why not go and preach to the people on pro-program chat boards where you would be tolerated and maybe accepted, oh yeah..... I forgot you are on the payroll and would not get paid for "Preaching to the Choir."

But in all seriousness, you should consult a therapist and discuss this problem that you have with coming here to a place where nobody likes you, or agrees with you, even if it is open to the public. In your participating with ongoing confrontations with everybody you are displaying traits of Meglomania. You are constantly desiring battle with anyone who will engage. And you have a problem admitting defeat when you have lost the battle. (You lie to yourself.)

And all of this for what, so you can do your job at damage control for programs and put a dollar in your pocket.

High price to pay.... The loss of sanity to make a dollar.

::bump::

[TheWho]

Narcissistic personality disorder is a real thing.

Many of these parents probably do have something wrong with them.

Everyone has to have something wrong with them or they would be considered perfect.  
People are fascinated and relieved to know that everyone is flawed:
Like for instance:

Aretha Franklin,
Whoopi Goldberg,
Billy Bob Thornton
Muhammad Ali  and
President Ronald Reagan
Were all Aerophobic

Adolf Hitler was claustrophobic

Napoleon Bonaparte suffered from ailurophobia

Andre Agassi is arachnophobic

Being perfect isnt allowed in our society because it scares people,
so we come up with a name tag for everything to show they are not perfect and have a disorder of some type like:

Arachibutyrophobia
Proctophobia
or
Allodoxaphobia (which many regulars here on fornits suffer from)

If you don’t suffer from one of these we will come up with something and provide the right medication to ease your anxiety.




...

[Anonymous]

Oh goody! Another round of let's psychoannalise The Who. Ok, WTF, I've got some agression to blow off, I'll bite.

Your purpose is  to plant that seed of doubt in the uninvolved reader's mind that everyone is lying. That is the only reasonable explanation for your "conclusion" that it not giving names means the kid is lying, and then saying that even if they do give names they are lying.

There's another, simpler one. It's a double bind that magically supports any cult follower's prime beliefe; the program is always right, trust the process, if it doesn't work for you it's a flaw in you, conform or shut the fuck up and PLEASE dear GOD don't threaten my illusions!

[Anonymous]

You retards need to find another hobby.

[Anonymous]

The group of parents I’m speaking of couldn't be described as sociopaths. I don’t know if anyone can be. The Mentally ill are described with labels like “sociopathâ€