I'm headed off to get my daughter from sage walk

[Anne Bonney]

Hmmmm....  How does TheWho know about the hard work of doing things for oneself?  He was a trust-fund baby and given everything he has ever had.

Also, where were these "positive results" when TheWho's daughter came home and was engaged in heavy drinking and drug use, according to TheWho, "witihin hours of getting home"?  Sounds fishy.  TheWho is holding out this utter failure as success?  

He also didn't mention that his daughter fell on her face after "wilderness" and another forced stay at ASR for an additional 16 months.  How two programs over two years can be spun as "success" when the kid gets fucked up on drugs and booze as soon as she steps off the bus is beyond me.  

He also "forgot" to mention that his kid cut him off completely from her life and will not any longer see or talk to him.  Sure sounds like "success," alright!

People need to keep TheWho in perspective.

 :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:


I'd say that sums his situation up.  LGATs work wonders, huh?  Eh, thought reform is thought reform.  Sad really.  At least the daughter's away from it now.  They'll probably end up like my father and I did.  What a shame.

 ::noway:: [sigh]

[TheWho]

And if you can't, you don't eat.

No, they still eat.  At least when my daughter went she still ate.  There were kids who couldn’t get the hang of starting a fire for quite awhile.

But when you play little league, your ability to eat or take a shower or sleep doesn't depend on whether or not you can hit a home run.

Same with wilderness.  The fire making is a challenge, something to attain, like a homerun.  Not reaching the goal doesn’t mean you cannot shower, eat or sleep.

Yeah sure. They learn how to shut down. They learn to not trust people they were supposed to be able to trust. They learn to be skeptical of any kindness. They learn to be hypervigilant. They learn to deal with PTSD.

You initially sounded like someone who had experienced wilderness but apparently you are just trolling us.  You must be the same guy who said he was subjected to Chinese torture and mind control.  You lose a ton of credibility when you try to talk about something you know nothing about or making up stories.



...

[Troll Control]

You lose a ton of credibility when you try to talk about something you know nothing about or making up stories.

You got that right.  This is why not a single person believes a single word of what you say.  You are the Prevaricator in Chief of Fornits.

Captcha:  "action today" - right on!

[Anne Bonney]

You initially sounded like someone who had experienced wilderness but apparently you are just trolling us.  You must be the same guy who said he was subjected to Chinese torture and mind control.  You lose a ton of credibility when you try to talk about something you know nothing about or making up stories.

 ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::blah::  ::blah::  ::blah::  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::whip::  ::whip::  ::whip::  ::whip::  ::whip::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::

[TheWho]

You initially sounded like someone who had experienced wilderness but apparently you are just trolling us.  You must be the same guy who said he was subjected to Chinese torture and mind control.  You lose a ton of credibility when you try to talk about something you know nothing about or making up stories.

 ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::blah::  ::blah::  ::blah::  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::whip::  ::whip::  ::whip::  ::whip::  ::whip::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::

I wouldnt rub it in too much.  You may chase him/her away, they posed a good argument but were a bit confused about the benefits of wilderness.  There are alot of people here (yourself included,Anne, if I am not mistaken) who think these wilderness programs hire people who practice mind control and weird stuff like Chinese torture which is a little strange.  So they probably got this idea reading stuff here on fornits, so it ma not be their ideas.
Ease up on the person, they may have ideas of their own to contribute.


...

[Anne Bonney]

I wouldnt rub it in too much.  You may chase him/her away, they posed a good argument but were a bit confused about the benefits of wilderness.  There are alot of people here (yourself included,Anne, if I am not mistaken) who think these wilderness programs hire people who practice mind control and weird stuff like Chinese torture which is a little strange.  So they probably got this idea reading stuff here on fornits, so it ma not be their ideas.
Ease up on the person, they may have ideas of their own to contribute.


...

Once again, you put words in others' mouths.  These programs that use the therapeutic community method of 'treatment' are using brainwashing techniques that were developed by the Chinese and the Koreans.  It has a lot of names, behavior modification/re-education/thought reform/redirection.....but its all the same when you break it down to its basics.  That's why it can never be made safe.  The basics, the fundamentals, the very things that make the programs "work" are dangerous in and of themselves.  In order to achieve these miraculous changes you pro-program people are so fond of babbling about (yes, they do produce changes...but for how long and at what price?) against the will of the child (you've admitted that none of them would choose to be there), you have to break that will first and that's never pretty.

[Troll Control]

You initially sounded like someone who had experienced wilderness but apparently you are just trolling us.  You must be the same guy who said he was subjected to Chinese torture and mind control.  You lose a ton of credibility when you try to talk about something you know nothing about or making up stories.

 ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::blah::  ::blah::  ::blah::  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::whip::  ::whip::  ::whip::  ::whip::  ::whip::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::

I wouldnt rub it in too much.  You may chase him/her away, they posed a good argument but were a bit confused about the benefits of wilderness.  There are alot of people here (yourself included,Anne, if I am not mistaken) who think these wilderness programs hire people who practice mind control and weird stuff like Chinese torture which is a little strange.  So they probably got this idea reading stuff here on fornits, so it ma not be their ideas.
Ease up on the person, they may have ideas of their own to contribute.


...

Is TheWho now claiming to be a hermaphrodite?  Why does he refere to himself (herself?) as a "him/her"?  Also, why does he quote him/herself and refere to self as someone else?  Very strange indeed...

[TheWho]

Once again, you put words in others' mouths.  These programs that use the therapeutic community method of 'treatment' are using brainwashing techniques that were developed by the Chinese and the Koreans.  It has a lot of names, behavior modification/re-education/thought reform/redirection.....but its all the same when you break it down to its basics.  That's why it can never be made safe.  The basics, the fundamentals, the very things that make the programs "work" are dangerous in and of themselves.  In order to achieve these miraculous changes you pro-program people are so fond of babbling about (yes, they do produce changes...but for how long and at what price?) against the will of the child (you've admitted that none of them would choose to be there), you have to break that will first and that's never pretty.

Look, Anne, get past the Chinese water torture, no one is buying it.  You are using scare tactics.  They use behavior modification.  You used Behavior modification on your own kids, you just don’t know it.  If they did something good you said “Good Jobâ€

[Troll Control]

I didn't read anything about "Chinese water torture" except your conflation of "techniques developed by the Chinese and Koreans."  

To anyone educated in this arena it is painfully obvious and verifiable through documentation that the indoctrination process and behavior modification program used by "the industry" have their roots in the reeducation camps of North Korea.  To deny this fact is moronic.  

Denying this fact shows that the utterer is woefully uneducated in psychology.  I hope this clears up TheWho's conflation of the issue.

[TheWho]

Like this?

[Troll Control]

Wow, TheWho is really just not a very smart person.  He answers the charge of conflation with further conflation.

Anyway, to use your example, douchebag, how different is this from the "OP" at TB?  Not much from where I sit.

This idiot just augurs himself deeper and deeper into the turf each time he responds.  If there is anyone left that thinks TheWhore is anything other than a complete dope, then that person is the only person alive dumber than TheWhore.

[TheWho]

Wow, TheWho is really just not a very smart person.  He answers the charge of conflation with further conflation.

Anyway, to use your example, douchebag, how different is this from the "OP" at TB?  Not much from where I sit.

This idiot just augurs himself deeper and deeper into the turf each time he responds.  If there is anyone left that thinks TheWhore is anything other than a complete dope, then that person is the only person alive dumber than TheWhore.

Resorting to name calling.  Tsk,Tsk.  You just got owned.  Discussion over.

[Botched Programming]

They use behavior modification.  You used Behavior modification on your own kids, you just don’t know it.  If they did something good you said “Good Jobâ€

[TheWho]

  There is a big difference in rewarding a child for a job well done and being forced to change in fear of reprisal or extreme consequences.

They are both considered behavior modification.

The examples you give above do not compare with a child being stripped from their families, friends, and people that they trust. Having to endure "Fear Tactic" therapy. Suffering extreme consequences for not being submissive and allowing an unlicensed counselor get in their head and botch up the programming they are trying to do on the kids. Then the end result is a child who is emotionally and mentally broken. That's what happens when the average kid is traumatized in the programming process by brain butchers at programs.

I agree 100%.  There is no chance I would send any of my kids to a place like that nor would I suggest anyone send their children there.


...

[Anonymous]

The overwhelming majority of kids that go thru Sagewalk do well and move on with their lives but there are always the few that leave early or do not benefit from the program and come on to fornits to try to make it seem like it is abusive.

They will hound you because they don’t want other parents reading about how well your daughter did and are hoping that by beating you up you will leave.  They are trying to get even with the school or their parents.
You need to remember that the definitions are different here:

Getting a ride = Abduction
Having a curfew = Incarcerated
Cooking your own meal = Abuse
No cell phone = Torture

ABDUCTED: 2-5 men coming to your bedroom in the middle of the night, and forcing you into a car. They will probably put you in handcuffs. If you try to escape they will apprehend and beat you. Sometimes a group of adolescents from the cult will be sent to abduct the youth

INCARCERATED---- ABUSED---- TORTURED:

Strip searched upon arrival, without due process. Often by other kids.

 You are not allowed to move without permission from another child. If given permission, two children must hold you. You must be in arms distance of another child, or two, at all times. INSIDE THE BUILDING.

If you wish to leave the building for another, there is another level of interference- staff. Staff must grant you permission. This will not be granted if your group is being punished. If some activity is scheduled- a “work assignmentâ€