Wilderness Having a Rough Time Lately

[TheWho]

Are you queer for my gear or something?

Spoken like a true professional.

[Anonymous]

I also care about putting people who practice "therapy" that consists of abducting a human being, forcing them into agrarian slave labor, giving "higher" kids power over lower ones, coercing and allowing public peer denunciation of one individual child by the group for being bad, not working hard enough, etc, behind bars. I'm glad you agree with my goals.

We would all want to see those bastards behind bars,  I don’t think there is one human being who wouldn’t have a place like that shut down in a heartbeat.  If ever a child happened to be abducted, tortured and forced into slave labor (in this country) it would make national headlines… life time channel movies would be made, you would get to meet Jay Leno!!.  All a kid has to do is talk to a reporter who wouldn’t mind becoming famous and Wala!!  You would become an instant celebrity!!  But so far this hasn’t happened.


...

Kids are kidnapped and forced into agrarian labor all the time. Type in teen escort, see how many companies pop up.
When you lie about something that can be verified with a trip to google...do you that makes you look good?

As for being an instant celebrity ....that's not the sort of celebrity that anyone wants to be, and as many kids have gone public, had a feature or two on 20/20 and watched the country not blink an eye, you are spreading misinformation.

When you report what happened to you to the police they will tell you it's legal, because your parents gave permission for you to be kidnapped. They will tell you what you are saying is a lie (as you say) or your slave labor will be desribed as some form of disipline or therapy. Even if a kid is beaten to death, as with tla, worked to death, like in aspen, or even beaten to death, this is interpreted as being in line with "therapy".

[TheWho]

Kids are kidnapped and forced into agrarian labor all the time. Type in teen escort, see how many companies pop up.
When you lie about something that can be verified with a trip to google...do you that makes you look good?

Well I did what you said and I found a couple of teen escort services, but I couldn’t find any that would be willing to kidnap a child, which I wouldn’t expect because they wouldn’t be in business very long.
If this was a crime every school bus driver in America would be arrested.

As for being an instant celebrity ....that's not the sort of celebrity that anyone wants to be, and as many kids have gone public, had a feature or two on 20/20 and watched the country not blink an eye, you are spreading misinformation.

No one blinks an eye because you try to build up your story with false terms and redefined words like…. “I was abducted in the middle of the night and forced into agrarian labor campsâ€

[Anonymous]

A legitimate, traditional, boarding school would not accept a kid delivered by escort.
You are not to be trusted because you deceive the public by refering to them as schools, instead of the pseudo psych institutions they are- subjecting kids to heinous experimental treatment.

[Anonymous]

Kids are kidnapped and forced into agrarian labor all the time. Type in teen escort, see how many companies pop up.
When you lie about something that can be verified with a trip to google...do you that makes you look good?

Well I did what you said and I found a couple of teen escort services, but I couldn’t find any that would be willing to kidnap a child, which I wouldn’t expect because they wouldn’t be in business very long.
If this was a crime every school bus driver in America would be arrested.

As for being an instant celebrity ....that's not the sort of celebrity that anyone wants to be, and as many kids have gone public, had a feature or two on 20/20 and watched the country not blink an eye, you are spreading misinformation.

No one blinks an eye because you try to build up your story with false terms and redefined words like…. “I was abducted in the middle of the night and forced into agrarian labor campsâ€

[TheWho]

A legitimate, traditional, boarding school would not accept a kid delivered by escort.
You are not to be trusted because you deceive the public by refering to them as schools, instead of the pseudo psych institutions they are- subjecting kids to heinous experimental treatment.

"Excuss me officer"... yes son?  "I need you to arrest someone"... for what?  "I was abducted, abused and sent to  pseudo psych institution where they are- subjecting kids to heinous experimental treatment"...[/b]take that tin hat off, son, grow up and start talking like a man,  thats embarrassing.

[Anonymous]

A legitimate, traditional, boarding school would not accept a kid delivered by escort.
You are not to be trusted because you deceive the public by refering to them as schools, instead of the pseudo psych institutions they are- subjecting kids to heinous experimental treatment.

This is right on.

[Anonymous]

Yes, a real boarding school has real admission requirements, kids want to go there and there is usually a waiting list.

What kind of test scores did you need to get into your shitpit boarding school? Oh yeah, it was a urine test.

[TheWho]

A legitimate, traditional, boarding school would not accept a kid delivered by escort.
You are not to be trusted because you deceive the public by refering to them as schools, instead of the pseudo psych institutions they are- subjecting kids to heinous experimental treatment.

"Excuss me officer"... yes son?  "I need you to arrest someone"... for what?  "I was abducted, abused and sent to  pseudo psych institution where they are- subjecting kids to heinous experimental treatment"...[/b]take that tin hat off, son, grow up and start talking like a man,  thats embarrassing.

This is classic

[TheWho]

......we have friends that have children in traditional boarding schools who use transport services (escorts) to get their kids to and from the schools at times when they cant travel with them.  The kids dont mind, I think they would rather have their parents take them but they dont see it as abusive.


...

[Oz girl]

so basically what your sayin is that kids, after wilderness, should be given a herculean dose of shrooms.

interesting rx

no...not at all. But most kids (the ones who arnt sheep) do take shrooms at some point in their lives, and a good percentage of those people who take them do have a life changing experience. I know a number of kids in my wilderness group who were very much like me in the sense that they spent most of their time doing nothing productive, usually just spening hours a day playing video games. those people went on to have a very simmilar experience. Getting closer with nature is at the top of the list of the benefits which come from a positive psychedelic experience.

and Outward bound does have a troubled teen division. it's called outward bound ascent, it is unrelated to the wilderness Ascent. nols also has a troubled teen division.

for the summer camp comment, summer camp is not what i meant. kids can still benefit from hiking a few miles a day, climbing a few mountains, eating trail food, and sleeping outside for a month. it's just matter of how you do it. i'm sorry you feel that you had a negative wilderness experience. A good experience is tough, but is not abusively difficult. if you cant handle tough, sucks for you. life is tough.

when i was at HLA, the kids loved ridge creek (the wilderness associated with hla). it was like a vacation from hla. it was tough, yes, but it was still positive. sure, it was all millitary style, but I and all my freinds learned alot from it. Since getting out, i've talked to alot of grads and pulls. The majority thought RCI was the only positive thing about hla. they wished they only got sent to RCI, because 99% of their change came at RCI, and they even enjoyed it to some degree. the Kids who didnt like it, who complained 2 years after, were all spoiled fatasses who couldnt even carry a pack.

and i'm not a troll. i may be annon, but i've been posting here for a long time, avoiding all troll-type activities. i may disagree with you, but i'm not a troll. thewho is a troll. i'm not. I went to a number of programs and wildernesses. 99% of programs out there are shit. i have alot of negative shit to say about it, and no one ever gives me greif about it. but whenever i try to point out honestly the one or two good programs, or a few positive things that came out, i get shit on.

You know I have heard similar arguments and if wilderness was enjoyable or therapeutic for you then great. I can see how a certain type of physically fit kid would get something out of  some aspects of wilderness. There are also some wilderness adventure holidays that disadvantaged or at risk kids get taken on here which thus far have good reputations (at least to the best of my knowledge). There is also a family based one I posted about which raised some concerns for being run by an organisation associated with a bizarre offshoot of the mens movement. It is some sort of father son thing.  Not one of them takes a kid who does not want to go. None last any longer than a week and all feed the kids much better food than just "trail food".

However much about your post speaks volumes about all that is problematic about the attitude of the industry. Why for instance do you assume that a kid that does not get something out of wilderness is a spoilt Fat ass? Would you say this about a kid who did not do well at a particular recreational sport? In the case of overweight kids would you honestly say that referring to them as a fatass would help them to get to a healthy weight and to gain a good body image? I am not calling you a troll just asking questions.

[Anonymous]

Escort services take kids AGASINT THEIR WILL, in handcuffs, or drugged, to programs. There are articles about this all over the net. Type in "want to make your kid disappear". There is another medical survey available by typing in "Alison pinto" where kidnapping is described in detail by the victims. There are police reports available everywhere about this subject. They also verify that though they are notified of the abducting, the police do nothing, as they consider it the right of the parent. Type in "close thayler learning academy" or "abduction "intervention" this info is all readily available.. You are lying.

And you are lying about something that is easy to verify as a lie. Thank you for spoiling whatever credibility you have in the eyes of whoever may be witnessing your bullshit.

This happened to me, personally. Are you saying, monster child torturer, that I am lying??

[TheWho]

Escort services take kids AGASINT THEIR WILL, in handcuffs, or drugged, to programs. There are articles about this all over the net. Type in "want to make your kid disappear". There is another medical survey available by typing in "Alison pinto" where kidnapping is described in detail by the victims. There are police reports available everywhere about this subject. They also verify that though they are notified of the abducting, the police do nothing, as they consider it the right of the parent. Type in "close thayler learning academy" or "abduction "intervention" this info is all readily available.. You are lying.

They are not abductions or kidnapping (you watch too many movies). I think the problem most kids are having understanding this is that before you are of age (18 or 21) the parents make the rules and have all the say in what you do.  If they want to "home school" you that is their choice.  If they decide to hire an escort service (bus company) to pick you up against your will and drive you to a public institution (local public school), kicking and screaming, to get you an education, then that is their choice also (whether it is a local public school or a TBS).  The police are not going to come to your rescue nor should they unless there is a teacher who is abusing you and then you need to talk to your parents.  But all this talk of abduction and kidnapping is such crap.. all kids are forced to do what the parents decide until they are of age.

 

And you are lying about something that is easy to verify as a lie. Thank you for spoiling whatever credibility you have in the eyes of whoever may be witnessing your bullshit.

This happened to me, personally. Are you saying, monster child torturer, that I am lying??

Yes I am, I am saying you are lying.  As long as your parents gave consent then there is no crime.  The law allows for emancipation if you choose to head out on your own.. but if you don’t choose this then don’t belly ached and blame others.  Either emancipate yourself or wait until you are of age to care for yourself.



...

[Anonymous]

You know I have heard similar arguments and if wilderness was enjoyable or therapeutic for you then great. I can see how a certain type of physically fit kid would get something out of  some aspects of wilderness. There are also some wilderness adventure holidays that disadvantaged or at risk kids get taken on here which thus far have good reputations (at least to the best of my knowledge). There is also a family based one I posted about which raised some concerns for being run by an organisation associated with a bizarre offshoot of the mens movement. It is some sort of father son thing.  Not one of them takes a kid who does not want to go. None last any longer than a week and all feed the kids much better food than just "trail food".

However much about your post speaks volumes about all that is problematic about the attitude of the industry. Why for instance do you assume that a kid that does not get something out of wilderness is a spoilt Fat ass? Would you say this about a kid who did not do well at a particular recreational sport? In the case of overweight kids would you honestly say that referring to them as a fatass would help them to get to a healthy weight and to gain a good body image? I am not calling you a troll just asking questions.

I am speaking from my personal experience. I met up with quite a few kids from my group. the only ones who said they hated it (still) were fatasses then and now. They want never wanted anything to do with the outdoors, to them, life was on a computer screen (everquest mostly). i wouldnt expect much more of them.
I was pretty overweight myself when i went to multiple wildernesses, and still am. i complained my ass off the first trip. afterwards, i got over it, and lost some weight while i was at it. I found hiking much more enjoyable than running in circles or on a treadmill, biking in one place, or lifting weights in a small room surrounded by other people doing likewise.
I wouldnt call these kids a fatass in person. I think alot of the reason many kids dont get much physical activity is because they have never been introduced to something they enjoy. they much prefer videogames over going to the gym, and it's easy to see why. theres plenty of things one can do to work off weight which are much more viable for these people. wheather it be hunting, badminton, rock climbing, snowboarding, sailing, even walking more. the key is weaning people off the computer and helping them find their niche. i was just lucky that hiking became something i enjoy. another key is food - not just how much, but what you eat too. I dont mean protein vs. carbs, i mean organic vs. chemically treated. 99% of the stuff in most supermarkets (even the vegetable isle) is toxic, and eating it will make you very fat and ill. just improving the quality of food makes a difference. I lost alot of weight switching from supermarket style boxed or packaged food to locally produced, organic food. i eat alot more but i'm much healthier.
the reason i continue calling these people fatasses is because they make no effort to find an activity they like. whenever they do ANYTHING, they complain about it being too physically demanding. with that attitude, what do you expect?

[Anonymous]

oh yeah, and about the whole escorts for traditional boarding schools.....LOL. if you do that, you've got serious issues with helicopter parenting. i went to boarding school in europe for two years when i was nine and ten. i traveled alone, except for special treatment airlines give to minors travelling alone.

When i was escorted to my program, the two guys that picked me up were really, really shady. the first one was a really big redneck guy who claimed to be a retired cop. the other was a guy who claimed to be an ex marine. on the drive to the airport, i overheard the marine saying that he's being deployed by blackwater into bolivia for some sort of narcotics operation. the ex-cops pickup truck had a gun rack with a few shotguns on it. He also carried a gun, and was able to bring it on the plane. this was post 9/11.

-----
People to never trust your kids with:
marines - check
cops - check
rednecks - check
covert narcotics operatives - check
mercenarys - check
members of the NRA - check
People who drive beat-up pickups with gun racks - check

if i had kids, and was completely oblivious to the problems in the industry, i would still never trust my kids with these people. who in their right mind would trust a bunch of triggerhappy drug warriors with their kids?

nothing against the armed forces...just the marines have a very dangerous mentality. they are mostly either brainwashed or naturally extremely violent meatheads. they all have tapes saying "kill, kill, destroy, kill, kill, kill, destroy..." stuck on repeat in their heads. not litterally, but thats the mentality.