Missing Puzzle Pieces

[KIDSofEP]

Was anyone in KIDS of NJ when it closed??  
Does anyone know if some of the phasers were subsequentially placed in other facilities such as AARC?  

Specifically, I am curious to know if the "Bish*ff,Jean" named individual on the KNJ
names list was later relocated to AARC.  I believe her father may have been a clinical staff trainee in Jersey and the family was formerly involved with KIDS of EP from '86 or early '87.

Thanks in advance for any information at all on this matter.
Todd

[Anonymous]

I don't know that.  But I knew Jean Bishoff.  She came in while I was there in Kids of Bergen County, before it became Kids of North Jersey. That poor girl was targeted from the moment she entered. They humiliated her (as they did many of us) unjustly.  She seemed like a nice person, and for the the life of me I couldn't see anything wrong with her. She didn't mean a lick of harm to anyone - I hope in the months, years after I left they hadn't changed that side of her. I remember them giving her a hard time because she wore pantyhose without underwear (big deal, I've done it)- they confronted her in full group about that - in front of boys and girls sides - how ridculous. It seems so petty, but the way they would take trival matters like this and blow them so far out of porportion - it almost seems like they were making problems to give that girl. I hope she's ok today. The newtons could have easily destroyed her mind.

[KIDSofEP]

Thanks much anon for your response.  I agree that Gene (Jean) was a hardcore victim of the program, not only in NJ but in El Paso as well.  Everyone always had it rough and the program was no country club, but I think it is agreed that some people had a much more horrible experience than others.  Jean was one of those people.  She was nonviolent and was only laughed at when she would be rebellious.  She was passive and was frequently stood up and confronted for sleeping in raps in El Paso.

AARC may have a different Evelyn Bish*ff on staff after reading the AARC bbs post, however there is a post on thekidsbbs.com that possibly Jean's father was a clinical staff trainee in Jersey.  Do you have any recollection of that??

I also wish Jean the very best and hope that she is well.  If I do run across her at any point I will refer her to this bbs so she can say hello.
Thanks again for your response.

[Anonymous]

I seem to recall that she was related to the above mentioned Bishoff, but I can't be sure of anything sometimes. The memories are foggy. May I ask you this:  You were in Kids of EP I think you said.  Did you ever see dr. newton or his wife while there? It seemed they were always with US. Did they have the same all-powerful presense in EP?  Also, when were you there?

[KIDSofEP]

Oh yes, I was definitely in KIDS of EP from 86-90 (actually 12/89) and I have a website about it at kidsofelpaso.com :smile: .  Newton was there frequently, possibly monthly.  He would come in and lead clinical rap and man the rapstools for open meeting.  We did feel the meglomaniacal presence of him and Ruth often.  Especially when EP was going through media exposure/litigation.  He was in EP a lot and when he wasn't, he was often on speaker phone for staff meetings etc.  It sucked~hard and often.

edited to reflect 12/89 NOT 12/86.

[ This Message was edited by: KIDSofEP on 2003-07-02 10:59 ]

[Anonymous]

oh, that's your website! I've been there also. I probably spend too much time at sites like that and this, doing my own form of personal research on the whole experience.  I was in Hackensack 88' to 90' - other end of the country but the same big white room, I'm sure.

[John Olsakovsky]

On 2003-07-01 18:16:00, Anonymous wrote:

"oh, that's your website! I've been there also. I probably spend too much time at sites like that and this, doing my own form of personal research on the whole experience.  I was in Hackensack 88' to 90' - other end of the country but the same big white room, I'm sure.

"

Having been in both big white rooms, I can tell you that the chairs in NJ were far more comfortable.  You had to get the older, heavier ones with the softer plastic & the wider seat.  

And NJ did get the leftover chairs from El Paso.  At least some of them, anyway...

Yes, Jean's father was a clinical trainee in New Jersey.  I remember that pretty distinctly.

[ This Message was edited by: John Olsakovsky on 2003-07-01 21:02 ]

[KIDSofEP]

Yup~that's me @ kidsofelpaso.com.  We were on blue chairs at the same time, just in different places.  Strange concept to even fathom, even stranger still to know that the abuse continues today.  Posts like "I attended an open meeting this month" on the STRAIGHT BBS gives me chills.

The chairs in EP did suck.  I think we changed chairs once and went to (or from?) the chairs with clear plastic connector on them so that they were all connected when the group sat bleacher style in rows versus Therapeutic Community style in a divided half circle.  We used to bust the hell out of those clear connectors when motivating.  

Regarding the chairs trip to NJ, "some of them" is key, JohnO...I managed to "lift" two chairs as a pnip (person not in program) from the back of a loaded semi trailer behind KIDS of EP on Boeing street.  It's ironic because there was also a picture published in the paper (currently in thekidsbbs.com private photo album) of Richard Vald*z loading them onto the trailer...hehehe.  Ron H*ll took one of the chairs and has since committed suicide.  I took the other and still have it.  Unfortunately it is just the frame sans the blue plastic seat part, but it is a world of memories from "the bad 'ol days" nonetheless.

Regarding Jean's father...thanks for the information.  It is interesting to know and even more interesting to ponder that the family may still be associated with AARC.  I almost feel like I wish I could hear from Jean just to be certain she is not a drug war POW somewhere from our era now in her late 20's/early 30's still falling asleep in some group somewhere or mumbling something about being powerless...

[Anonymous]

On 2003-07-01 06:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I don't know that.  But I knew Jean Bishoff.  She came in while I was there in Kids of Bergen County, before it became Kids of North Jersey. That poor girl was targeted from the moment she entered. They humiliated her (as they did many of us) unjustly.  She seemed like a nice person, and for the the life of me I couldn't see anything wrong with her. She didn't mean a lick of harm to anyone - I hope in the months, years after I left they hadn't changed that side of her. I remember them giving her a hard time because she wore pantyhose without underwear (big deal, I've done it)- they confronted her in full group about that - in front of boys and girls sides - how ridculous. It seems so petty, but the way they would take trival matters like this and blow them so far out of porportion - it almost seems like they were making problems to give that girl. I hope she's ok today. The newtons could have easily destroyed her mind."

Quoted from another bbs.

Through all the years that I have had the site up, the bbs, etc. I always contended that the program was some horrible experience that I was subjected to for several years in the late '80s. For some reason I actually felt a strange sense of personal guilt (yup, I'm sharing my feelings) after reading the following post on the nj bbs. I realized (yup~the cultspeak continues) that the program that I was involved with destroyed lives. Of course I have always known this, however my role somehow seemed to flip from victim to perpetrator. I was actually a big part of this mindwarping machine that resulted in several suicides from my group, and countless fucked up souls...

Many of us did NOT experience what others did as some people were in fact "targeted" and were confronted, held accountable, and restrained relentlessly, not to mention humiliating factors such as publicizing bowel incontinence issues, emphasis on sexual history such as incest and even molestation by adults. How many times was "so and so" on the guys side confronted about having sex with an old man.... That is theoretically holding an adolescent accountable (yuppers~ more program talk) for sexual contact with an adult...the legal system views that situation differently. Adults go to prison and children go to therapy to learn that "it wasn't their fault" yet in guy's rap the issue was turned to reflect it all as an "unmanagable" secondary to being "powerless over drugs".

I don't even know if what I am saying makes any sense, but being a part of the whole experience just felt differently to me after reading the above post.
I hope Gene (Jean) is alright.

[Anonymous]

I was the little girl (yes, 15 is little, it just is.)  who had an accident in my sleep at a host home.  I remember waking up in the morning and being terrified when I realized what had happened.
I never in my wildest dreams would have done something like that on purpose. My oldcomer, who I just could not get to believe a word I said, did not believe it was an accident. If front of the entire group, she made it public issue. I was screamed at for a while, cried, pleaded all I could that I wasn't some sick person, that it truly was an accident. I don't know how it happended! I was too afraid to ask to go to the bathroom after we were locked (yes we WERE locked in the host home bedroom), and I of course thought it could wait till morning. It just happened in my sleep, but the nightmare of what they did to me in group the next day, and the abuse I suffered mentally at that host home will last forever. I remember group/staff saying "it's biologically impossible for that to happen while you're sleeping, we have proof! We looked it up! The liars.  I have risen above. I know the humiliation they put me through was unfounded.  The above post mentioned becoming the abusor from having been abused.  Please don't feel any guilt. Whatever you did while there was not your fault, I promise that. I don't blame the other phasors who jumped on the humiliation band wagon in my case - they, like me, were products of their environment.  We are not those people anymore, we are not victom or abuser. We are survivors. And Life is pretty wonderful. BTW, from what I understand, the oldcomer I had is still with Newton or a follower of his. Karma, baby.

[Anonymous]

One more thing...
that was a very difficult post for me to make. I think that was one of the worst moments of the whole experience for me. I almost didn't post it because of the pain of the memory, but I thought it was time. I had to face what happened. So please, if anyone has anything cruel to say about it, please don't. Just keep your cruelty to yourself. I think we've all had enough of that.

[Anonymous]

Nothing cruel to say to you, nothing at all.  
I think sometimes what you had to say about surviving the madness is forgotten about and bbs rapport flips to the unfortunate same sort of trolling found on any internet based forum.  I appreciate the sentiment of your post.  There were several in my group as well that were humiliated because of bowel incontinence, some that were ridiculed and confonted as they must have had "good feelings" from it or something according to staff.  This was devastating and I am sure is not without long term ramifications.  

Personally, my most humiliating memory was in exercise rap.  I had terrible acne at the time and I began to bleed from a pimple or something on my face.  I didn't know I was bleeding at the time but I did know that staff and several phasers were looking at me dead in the face and laughing.  No one laughed at me before the program, I fought a lot and didn't take bullshit from anyone.  Now, I was being stared at by staff and my peers and being laughed at for some unknown reason.  Staff later asked a fifth phaser to take me to the restroom and let me look at my face.   It sounds not half as bad as it felt at the time.  Certainly there were many more humiliating moments in the program, being badgered to own up to sexual stuff that I didn't even IMAGINE before the program, etc. but the pimple incident hurt me inside.  It was topped later that same night when I tried to write my MI on the incident and my fourth phase oldcomer (that was in school at the time) laughed and told me to write my MI on a "REAL" problem I had that day.

The guilt that I mentioned in the previous post was relative to the notion of how could I even be involved in such torment and cruelty to other people when it is so far removed from who I am today.  I just kind of ripped through my phases after over a year on 1st phase and was basically no one, but there were those that caught all kinds of hell who were harmless, meek, and just trying to go with the flow, not even only "rebellious" people.  Jean was of those people as were others that are no longer with us.  

Thanks again for your post and kind words.

[Anonymous]

I think we've just had an Oprah moment.
LOL.

[Anonymous]

I also remember wetting the bed because I would get yelled out if the whole host home had to be woken for me to be unlocked and brought to the bathroom... I also hated girls rap when girls would confess something the staff would make them go into very, very graphic about it..it was such child exploitation and thank God there was never a fire in the host homes..imagine being locked in a room with an alarm on the door..we were luckily cause we could have died while waiting for the host parent to get us out!!!

[Anonymous]

Do you know how many times I've thought about that? The danger was incredible. Miller swears he stopped putting locks on doors in 1983, I believe that's the year he stated in a courtroom somewhere along his legal trail.  If we could have proved it in time, he would be in jail today.