Author Topic: Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki  (Read 15237 times)

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Offline Covergaard

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Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki
« on: November 09, 2007, 04:41:36 PM »
If you have been at a wilderness therapy program and if you either miss it on Fornits wiki or would like to add additional information, please fill out this questionnaire:

The wilderness category on Fornits wiki looks like this:

General information:
    Name
    Address for check-in facility.
    Year established
    Number of detainees in each group.
    Gender, coed or unisex
    Program duration
    Owner:
Program structure:
    Admission: Were you escorted, tricked or volutary into the program
    Did they have a level system? What were the requirements to graduate to the next levels?
    Living conditions: Real backpack or homemade back-breaking contraption.
    Sleeping: tent or bivouac.
    Food: Mineral withholdment as part of the process of breaking or normal food
    Communication: Where letter censored or evenlopes opened before you were allowed to read them. The errorlist or impact letter. At what point were this given to you.
    Education: What kind of workbook did they offer?
    Staff: Qualification and training
    Punishments or consequnces: What kind did they use?
In the news
    Links to news about the program
External Links
    Info pages and homepage of the program
    Groups on the internet: Myspace, Msn, Yahoo, Google
    Links to treads in forum


If you have a workbook from the program and want to upload it. Please use this page

If you dont have all the info, please state what you got. All contributions are welcome.

Please place your info in a reply to this tread.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2007, 05:51:38 PM »
you've got some of it right, but not all, and if you really want to use this to influence change or elimination of truly abusive programs, you really need to get it right, including all terms being unbiased on their face  
For example, "detainee" is a term showing bias, whereas "participant is not so biased.  And, particularly for over-18 programs, leaving is voluntary, as indeed is entrance.

Real backpack or "homemade back-breaking contraption" leaves no middle ground either.  And, a properly-tied "bundle", for sake of better term, isn't so back breaking as your phrase suggests.

PLEASE, don't presume all wilderness programs are bad things, or do bad things, or have unhappy participants any more than Burger King.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Che Gookin

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Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2007, 04:49:03 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
you've got some of it right, but not all, and if you really want to use this to influence change or elimination of truly abusive programs, you really need to get it right, including all terms being unbiased on their face  
For example, "detainee" is a term showing bias, whereas "participant is not so biased.  And, particularly for over-18 programs, leaving is voluntary, as indeed is entrance.

Real backpack or "homemade back-breaking contraption" leaves no middle ground either.  And, a properly-tied "bundle", for sake of better term, isn't so back breaking as your phrase suggests.

PLEASE, don't presume all wilderness programs are bad things, or do bad things, or have unhappy participants any more than Burger King.



It is the fornits wiki.. what are you expecting.. we hate programs here.. Middle ground thinking is what gets kids into programs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Covergaard

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Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2007, 08:49:06 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
PLEASE, don't presume all wilderness programs are bad things, or do bad things, or have unhappy participants any more than Burger King.


Not all wilderness programs are bad if they are done right.

The TV-serie "Brat Camp 5" used a special version of Anasazi's programs where the mothers went out in the desert also and guest what. Suddenly the length of the program only needed to be 3 weeks because the parents learned a lot too.

One mother did learn one word for a start and that word was "No".

She had made her own business working alot. Because of that she felt that she had to compensate the child with gifts all time. Suddenly the child became unbearble demanding. When this mother returned back to the UK after 3 weeks against the therapists advide, all thought that it is going to turn out badly, but it didn't because the mother had learned her lesson.

Interviewed 9 months later the mother spoke only of normal confrontations but also about an overall behaving daughter.

Beside the defunct Aspen Family Camp I have found only one parent / child wilderness program - Soltrek's. Why are american parents not prepared to do the work themselves all the way instead of playing honeymoon for 3 days in the end of a normal program?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Femanon4Che

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Re: Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2008, 08:03:17 AM »
General information:

      Name: PM me
      Address for check-in facility. (address not known) High Impact, Near Tecate, Mexico
      Year established: (n/a) closed in 2002
      Number of detainees in each group: Girls: average of 13 Boys: average of 15
      Gender, coed or unisex: Genders separated living area, walking area shared but used at separate times during the day.
      Program duration: average 2 months
      Owner: Allie and Miguel (last name unknown)

Program structure:

      Admission: I was first admitted into Casa By The Sea in Ensenada, Mexico. The administrator of CBS, Dace Goulding recommended to my mother the High Impact program and I was escorted by the driver usually hired for CBS to the High Impact facility.

      Did they have a level system? What were the requirements to graduate to the next levels?: They utilized a system based on demerits vs points earned by laps walked in a day. Because I was from CBS they told me I was expected to already know the rules, and therefore any rule breaking would be considered a "Cat 2", which represented 80 demerits. I could only earn about 100 merits a day and the "rules" were beyond strict so I basically made no progress toward "graduating" until the staff decided to allow me to have "Cat 1" consequences which only represented 5 demerits. In order to avoid consequences I needed shut down my conscious mind, and not move my body in the slightest way, once I had enough merits as calculated by the staff (I was never aware how many I had at any time) they allowed me to return to Casa By The Sea.


      Living conditions: The "living conditions" consisted of a large desert property, the "facility" was a fenced in dirt lot that was made up of 3 sections: the walking circle, the girls side and the boys side. On the girl's side, near the entrance of the compound there were 4 tall chain link cages with about a foot and a half of open entry/exit space on each cage. there stood a pile of wood to the left side of the cages and a fire pit used for cooking to the right. In the middle of the compound was a concrete slab that hoisted a large green military tent which served as our community living quarters. We spent 6 hours a day sitting indian style on the concrete listening to the same solitary tape about the 12 steps of AA. instructed not to move even in the slightest. There was a crude concrete building at the southern most side of the compound that was used by the staff as sleeping quarters and our community bathroom. There were two shower areas that consisted of a cold stream of water that came from the ceiling that we all used at the same time. There were 3 toilets with no doors and they were often clogged or not in working condition at all yet since we were given such strict time limits, girls usually used them anyway, often causing overflows that we were expected to clean up with our bare hands. The walking circle was a separately fenced off area that was shaped like a rectangle and had deep grooves in the dirt that had been formed from the large amount of walking we were required to do for 4 hours everyday. The facility was located at the bottom of a hill where a top the hill stood the house and personal property of the couple who owned and operated High Impact, There names were Miguel and Allie, I am not sure of their last names. I have been told that down the road from the property there lived a mexican drug lord, but of that I cant be entirely sure.

      Sleeping: The "sleeping conditions" consisted of a concrete slab covered by a large army tent in which we slept in a sleeping bag or on a towel on the floor. We were also not allowed to use the bathroom at night so there was a bucket kept in the middle of the tent that we all had to use during the night.

      Food: We cooked our own food, by building a fire and boiling the ingredients. Breakfast: boiled oat slop (or unsweetened oatmeal) with no sugar or flavoring. Lunch: rice and beans. Dinner: rice and a leg or breast of chicken. Most times the chicken still had the skin on the meat, that most times still had feathers inside of it that we were FORCED to eat, as well we were forced to eat the giblets (organs) of the chicken. At select times we were awarded a tomato or an orange.

      Communication: Our letters from our parents were delivered to us as a fax, any information they didn't consider us privileged enough to have would be crossed out with permanent marker. I am not sure if the letters I sent to my parents were in anyway "tampered with" or edited before being faxed over but I do know that they read our letters and did not send those that they deemed "manipulative" The first letter I wrote to my mother explained that I was being held dog cages and being abused (via the extreme restraining methods) and the owners of the program confronted me, telling me I was lying to my mom and that I was a pathological liar. They then told me they would not be sending that letter to my mom and that my communication with my mom would be cut off until I "learned to be honest with myself".

      Education: None, there were NO academics.

      Staff: Im pretty sure none of them had any qualifications, I think one staff member used to be in the army but it was clear that the owners had NO qualifications at all, in fact I would highly question their level of education.

      Punishments or consequences: The "consequences" were small pieces of paper that we would fill out when we were given a consequence by a staff member. Staff would do this for "rule violations" such as "playing" which was actually translated into moving at all, itching your face, shifting your weight, moving your fingers even in the slightest bit and licking your lips (due to the fact that we were not allowed chapstick or sunblock) I once asked to use some chapstick because I was repeatedly getting consequences for "playing" with my lips (licking my lips to try to ease the cracking and bleeding) and they instead forced me to clench a piece of wood in my mouth for 2 weeks. I can't remember if there was any reason for this but I was sentenced to carry a large bag of sand about 30-40lbs around my neck for more than 45 days. The main punishment was being restrained, this punishment would be doled out for any reason what so ever, including but not limited to crying, collapsing from pain or exhaustion or complaining about injuries or illnesses. Being restrained felt like being raped without penetration. It was violent and the point was to inflict as much pain as possible for as long as the staff cared to do so. When a child was being restrained the staff would put the child's arms behind their back and force them upwards until the hands are touching the back of the head, (often times the arms would pop out of the shoulder sockets) The legs would either be held pinned in a hog tied position against the child's back or held spread eagle by 2 staff members while the third dug their knee and all their body weight into the child's lower back. The head was forced to stay up with the chin on the ground, usually the method to obtain this position would be to pull the hair back and grind the chin into the rocky dirt.  At times the staff would take turns restraining, take breaks and then resume the abuse or just sit on top of the child for hours and hours on end. This was most always done on the hot desert dirt floor, my stay was during the summer months so often after a whole day of being restrained and left laying on your stomach we would be missing large patches of skin and the rest of our body would be badly burned (either by the hot sand or the sun). Water was also often withheld as a punishment, we were expected to ration it and in the case that someone decided to steal and drink our water, we would not be allowed to refill our water for another few hours. A peer punishment system was set in place, detainees who had achieved a certain amount of points would be instructed to "watch" the other detainees and inform staff of any infractions of the rules. Here again, normal actions like scratching an itch, shifting your weight while sitting or moving your fingers were usually called by the upper levels and consequences would be given.

In the news: http://www.wwaspsinfo.net/paradisecove/ ... 03.02.html

External Links

      Info pages and homepage of the program:  No Longer Exists
      Groups on the internet: www.Troubled-Teen-Industry.com
      Links to treads in forum: http://troubled-teen-industry.com/index ... &Itemid=67
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 05:09:19 PM by Femanon4Che »

Offline Oscar

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Re: Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2008, 03:06:30 PM »
Femanon4Che: Thank you very much. I will improve our datasheet about high impact with your information.

The Anti-wwasp forum has worked really hard helping Jensp with the location of High Impact. Our favorite is this location. What is your input? We always try to locate the location of each program because they have this thing by opening under a new name.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Femanon4Che

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Re: Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2008, 01:21:58 AM »
Thanks Oscar, actually I was the person who pin pointed that area on the map (SN formally Ladilucix). I am no longer working with Antiwwasp.com however so if its possible to update your records on who sourced that information you can give credit to www.Troubled-Teen-Industry.com.

I am still not 100% positive that this is indeed the property, but from what I assume there have been upgrades to the facility and that could mean that they are still running a program there.

I would like to provide some visual materials for your wiki as well... I will dig up some photos that have relation to the topic as well as create a "blueprint" of the facility at the time I attended. I would also like to mention a few more details and a background story you may find useful. would you perfer I update the wiki myself or should I just keep posting my information here?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Oscar

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Re: Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2008, 11:22:51 AM »
You can choose whatever option you like and you can also write Covergaard in private by mail. While he is still in recovery, he is able to work on computers. We would be happy to ad your website to our sources but we don't remove the old. On the wiki all sources should appear unless they are referrals to the program. I will be looking at your website and include both the information in this thread and what is on the website. We are happy to work with you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Femanon4Che

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Re: Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2008, 01:46:58 PM »
Thanks Oscar!

I will put a few more materials together and post them here as well as email Covergaard.

My only issue with linking my work or my name with Antiwwasp is that kev and antiwwasp have a reputation i would like to completely seperate myself from and since I was the one who took hours to manually comb google earth for that needle in a hay stack property I think that anyone who is looking for more information on High Impact should come find me at www.Troubled-Teen-Industry.com  Antiwwasp no longer has any active members who went to high impact so I want to make sure the source leads back to the individual instead of blanketing credit to a website. A website in fact that is skimming dangerously close to referring programs (again), and you all stand very strong on that issue so I would assume that would be your concern as well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2009, 02:00:48 PM »
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Quote from: ""Guest""
you've got some of it right, but not all, and if you really want to use this to influence change or elimination of truly abusive programs, you really need to get it right, including all terms being unbiased on their face  
For example, "detainee" is a term showing bias, whereas "participant is not so biased.  And, particularly for over-18 programs, leaving is voluntary, as indeed is entrance.

Real backpack or "homemade back-breaking contraption" leaves no middle ground either.  And, a properly-tied "bundle", for sake of better term, isn't so back breaking as your phrase suggests.

PLEASE, don't presume all wilderness programs are bad things, or do bad things, or have unhappy participants any more than Burger King.


It is the fornits wiki.. what are you expecting.. we hate programs here.. Middle ground thinking is what gets kids into programs.


And your kind of thinking is what led to me boycotting fornits for the last 9 months or so.

Keep thinking the way you do and watch were you'll get....nowhere. if you want to take shit down, you got to think rationally, not dogmatically.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2009, 02:03:55 PM »
middle ground thinking doesnt get kids into programs. dogmatic thinking does. and your guilty of it, gookin. you might not force kids into programs but i dont even want to imagine what the consequences of your thinking would lead should you take serious action.

read the art of war buddy. you'll learn alot.

now is not the time to fight fire with fire.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2009, 10:21:13 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
you've got some of it right, but not all, and if you really want to use this to influence change or elimination of truly abusive programs, you really need to get it right, including all terms being unbiased on their face  
For example, "detainee" is a term showing bias.

It doesn't show bias, it is the proper term for someone imprisoned without due process. Also approproate would be captive.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline FemanonFatal2.0

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Re: Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2009, 11:33:55 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
you've got some of it right, but not all, and if you really want to use this to influence change or elimination of truly abusive programs, you really need to get it right, including all terms being unbiased on their face  
For example, "detainee" is a term showing bias.

It doesn't show bias, it is the proper term for someone imprisoned without due process. Also appropriate would be captive.

lol would you prefer that we label the detainees as "students"? In that case, that would be an outright lie, since there was absolutely no education system offered at High Impact. I'm curious to see what kind of unbiased term could be used to label a teen that is being held against their will in a behavior modification program, especially those like the notoriously abusive "wilderness programs" or "boot camps" that High Impact was. Is there some politically correct term that I'm simply not aware of?
::)

You programmies are ridiculous!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
...Rebellion Becomes Duty...[/size]




[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]

Offline ladyblade91ws

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Re: Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2009, 05:49:08 AM »
Not sure why I am even doing this - it has been so long...but here goes

General information:
Name:  Wanda (Toney) Short
Address for check-in facility:  I was sentenced in 1984 in Montgomery Co. PA to VisionQuest
Year established
Number of detainees in each group: I think maybe 12...but I was in the COA for much of my "stay"
Gender, coed or unisex: Coed...one girl's teepee and three boy's teepees
Program duration: I was sentenced originally to 9 months (3 in wilderness, 3 on wagon train, 3 in residential home) but it ended up being 11 months at WCE (wilderness camp east in Franklin, PA) and 2 months on the FoxTrail train...13 months in all because I was a "non conformist" and had so many injuries that included orthopedic surgery (two) that I was trapped in WCE.
Owner: who knows...Bob somebody

Program structure: Supposed to be a three month wilderness stint then promote to the wagon train, do a 2 week quest, then to a half way type house residential program to reaquaint you with the world...that was not my experience.  The Wilderness section was an outdoor setting...living in teepees and inlcuded school time, physical training like workout sessions..., and that is pretty much it.  I never seemed to break down like they wanted so I was in physical confrontations every day...sometimes more than once and had extensive injuries even requiring surgeries and hospital holds.

Admission: Were you escorted, tricked or volutary into the program: I was sentenced by a judge and taken into custody.Did they have a level system? What were the requirements to graduate to the next levels? Yes, but I never quite made them...I didnt follow the healing track or whatever.Living conditions: Real backpack or homemade back-breaking contraption.
Sleeping: tent or bivouac. Teepee in WCE and on the train.
Food: Mineral withholdment as part of the process of breaking or normal food - I do not recall ever being unable to eat...in fact they forced you to eat more than you wanted...that was terrible because then they would slam you (physical restraint) and if you puked you were hurt even more...
Communication: Where letter censored or evenlopes opened before you were allowed to read them. The errorlist or impact letter. At what point were this given to you.  There was absolutely no contact with letters in or out of the program. No phone calls. I had one visit from my parents after my 2nd surgery.  The next time I communicated with them was a year later when they picked me up at my release.Education: What kind of workbook did they offer?
Staff: Qualification and training:  Different levels of staff...the highest ones were called SPS - Senior Professional Staff adn they wore a button or a cord on their jeans at the knee level to signafy.  
Punishments or consequnces: What kind did they use?: Restraint, emotional abuse, yelling, hurting, threatening, lying, not let you sleep or sit/lay down, stand for hours in one spot, etc...terrible things they would say to get you to "snap".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Wilderness therapy questionnaire for Fornits Wiki
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2009, 03:44:45 PM »
Quote from: "Covergaard"
If you have been at a wilderness therapy program and if you either miss it on Fornits wiki or would like to add additional information, please fill out this questionnaire:

The wilderness category on Fornits wiki looks like this:

General information:
    Name
    Address for check-in facility.
    Year established
    Number of detainees in each group.
    Gender, coed or unisex
    Program duration
    Owner:
Program structure:
    Admission: Were you escorted, tricked or volutary into the program
    Did they have a level system? What were the requirements to graduate to the next levels?
    Living conditions: Real backpack or homemade back-breaking contraption.
    Sleeping: tent or bivouac.
    Food: Mineral withholdment as part of the process of breaking or normal food
    Communication: Where letter censored or evenlopes opened before you were allowed to read them. The errorlist or impact letter. At what point were this given to you.
    Education: What kind of workbook did they offer?
    Staff: Qualification and training
    Punishments or consequnces: What kind did they use?
In the news
    Links to news about the program
External Links
    Info pages and homepage of the program
    Groups on the internet: Myspace, Msn, Yahoo, Google
    Links to treads in forum

If you have a workbook from the program and want to upload it. Please use this page

If you dont have all the info, please state what you got. All contributions are welcome.

Please place your info in a reply to this tread.

Why isn't "What did I do to get myself sent to a  program" one of the questions?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »