Author Topic: New Better Manifesto  (Read 6459 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
New Better Manifesto
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2007, 06:44:14 PM »
Quote
I'll tell you this, though: It'll take a lot less time than a couple months! So by ramming my meat into your twisted cunt I'm actually doing a lot less to you than you are to your own daughter.


Hey wait a freaking minute. You can have her after I'm done. She needs to be marathoned.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline CCM girl 1989

  • Posts: 1308
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
New Better Manifesto
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2007, 06:46:17 PM »
Quote from: ""Dr Fucktard""
I truly don't see what the goddam FUSS is all about... I bet I would've fooled around with CCM Girl too if she was willing to blow a crusty old fuck like me! What's the problem with a stiff ol' exec getting a little action? Us Fucktards get lonely once in a while too, you know.....



How nice of you to make an appearance Doc! I just love when people like this show up. BTW, it just proves my point about the majority of the posters on here being nuts.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
f you were never in a program, or a parent of a child in a program, then you have no business posting here.

Offline Dr Fucktard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1069
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
New Better Manifesto
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2007, 06:53:56 PM »
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
How nice of you to make an appearance Doc! I just love when people like this show up. BTW, it just proves my point about the majority of the posters on here being nuts.

 :roll:  Sounds like you may be in need of a little evaluation yourself there, CCM girl.. whaddya say we send the StraightMobile over so we can figure out just what's up with you.....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5006
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
New Better Manifesto
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2007, 07:00:23 PM »
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
This is the type of stuff that was being said to me:

Oh god, CMSGirly butthurt AGAIN. Forgot the astroglide or just on the rag?

Honestly. Who are you? You're a WWASPIE survivor and you were put in a litany of other programs and you're projecting your OPINIONS and experiences as a FUCKED UP TEENAGER and acting like that amounts to anything more than the opinions of a program apologetic with a ton of baggage and a habit of projecting your own shit on others, and flipping out if people have any criticism for what you say at all!


Please point out to me where I was out of line with you, other than telling you to fuck off.   Which can be debated as being out of line or not.  Yes, I said it.  I still say it.  If you think its perfectly OK for a staff member to fuck a patient, if you think its perfectly OK for an adult to fuck a child as long as the child thinks the guy is hot, I say fuck you.  If that makes me an asshole, I guess I'm an asshole.  You look back through that thread and tell me where I attacked you.

Quote
Nevermind the fact that the grievances I RESPECTFULLY brought up are 100% WRONG, period, the fact that I brought it up against one of your "approved programs" means you need to flip-out, bitch-out and wig-out and spread estrogen everywhere and PMS all over the thread because I didn't bow down to your fucking opinion.


If a program holds a kid against their will, forces or coerces them to adopt a set of values their are either not ready or unwilling to accept, it is a rape of the mind and soul.
Quote
Need a 50 waahhhhmbulance post again?



Also here is some more:


Because her parents threw her away like the worthless whore she is.



More charming words:


We will do this, we will do that, your credibility, WAH WAH WAH.

Sounds like maybe you need a good, long raping too.

And then after I'm done I'll brainwash you to like it and then you can post on Fornits how nice it was.

I'll tell you this, though: It'll take a lot less time than a couple months! So by ramming my meat into your twisted cunt I'm actually doing a lot less to you than you are to your own daughter.

Funny how that works, isn't it?



Is it okay to speak to me like this because my experiences and opinions are different then yours? I don't think it is. I say it how it is, and if you can't handle somebody being 100% honest with how they feel, and what they went through, then that is your problem.

I get attacked every time I speak out. It gets so tiring having to do the back, and forth. Like I said before, it's a full time job. I don't enjoy the attention. What I do enjoy however is being able to give parents who come on here looking for information, the right information.

Not all programs are bad.


Tell me again where I said any of those things.   Other than you being brainwashed.  I believe that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline CCM girl 1989

  • Posts: 1308
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
New Better Manifesto
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2007, 07:18:35 PM »
Anne, I don't think I ever said it was okay to "fuck" a patient. I just merely said that I didn't always consider it abuse. My opinion. I gave some examples of the houseparents being very close in age to the students, and they both were willing parties, and you all start throwing around the word rape, and sexual abuse.

Some of us fooled around, but I don't think there was any fucking going on until that student left that program, and was able to reconnect with a staff member. You see, we were watched pretty closely. You might be able to get away with a 30 second quickie?!! But, even then....that would be difficult to get away with. Never knew of one student who had sex while in the school with a houseparent.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
f you were never in a program, or a parent of a child in a program, then you have no business posting here.

Offline Anne Bonney

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5006
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
New Better Manifesto
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2007, 07:25:20 PM »
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
Anne, I don't think I ever said it was okay to "fuck" a patient. I just merely said that I didn't always consider it abuse. My opinion.




You said it wasn't abusive for a staff person to have a sexual relationship with a patient as long as it was 'consensual' and the guy was "hot", did you not????
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Botched Programming

  • Posts: 1197
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
New Better Manifesto
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2007, 07:27:42 PM »
CCM Girl...... Can you say Statutory Rape[/color]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline CCM girl 1989

  • Posts: 1308
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
New Better Manifesto
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2007, 07:32:59 PM »
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
Anne, I don't think I ever said it was okay to "fuck" a patient. I just merely said that I didn't always consider it abuse. My opinion.



You said it wasn't abusive for a staff person to have a sexual relationship with a patient as long as it was 'consensual' and the guy was "hot", did you not????


You got me Anne! I just don't classify it under ABUSE. Especially when they are close in age, and they both were consenting. That's my opinion. By the way, like I said before, things never got too far until the student was released. Too many people around.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
f you were never in a program, or a parent of a child in a program, then you have no business posting here.

Offline Nihilanthic

  • Posts: 3931
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
New Better Manifesto
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2007, 07:33:31 PM »
It's this simple.

I asked valid questions, I got an emotionally charged response and accusations.

Now, in case you don't know, NOBODY TELL ME WHAT I CAN OR CAN NOT SAY.  :D

Also, flipping out at me is just going to make me want to piss you off more.

I'll gladly cite the fucking post that started this if I have to, but the bottom line is this:

If all you do is bitch, moan, and pull argumentative fallacies to get around answering hard questions, you shouldn't be on fornits! No matter how attached you are to your OPINIONS, facts will always take president.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline hanzomon4

  • Posts: 1334
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
New Better Manifesto
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2007, 07:35:15 PM »
How about abuse of power? Staff/patient Teacher/student
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
New Better Manifesto
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2007, 09:03:41 PM »
Why are student - staff relationships inappropriate?

This is from a completely different forum, but seems to be most applicable here.  The circumstances that predate this posting were a so-called guru who persuaded an employee/follower to engage in a three year affair.  The shit hit the fan eventually, and it turns out the young woman really hadn't wanted this after all, but was brainwashed into it due in part to the 30 year age difference, the disparity in power (guru/follower), not to mention other influences as well... At the time of this writing, former follower/student was in a very precarious state psychologically, contemplating suicide.  The book this poster is paraphrasing (author Dr. Peter Rutter) has to do with inappropriate relationships between therapist and patient, primarily.

Amazon LINK for book description

=================================

LINK to topica list
Rutter takes the position that a "forbidden zone always exists in the relationship between doctor and patient, therapist and client, clergyman and congregant, lawyer and client, teacher and student. All of these professions carry a special trust not to abuse the seen or unseen dependent elements that inevitably develop." Because of the greater power of the professional, the client is unable to give truly informed consent, and it is thus the responsibility of the person in the more powerful position to control the necessary boundary between the two parties.

"Amorous relationships that might be appropriate in other circumstances are always wrong when they occur between any teacher or officer and any student for whom he or she has a professional responsibility. Further, such relationships may have the effect of undermining the atmosphere of trust on which the educational process depends. Implicit in the idea of professionalism is the recognition by those in positions of authority that in their relationships with students there is always an element of power. It is incumbent upon those with authority not to abuse, nor seem to abuse, the power with which they are entrusted."

The gender relationship between student and teacher is itself a risk factor, just given the sheer probability of an erotic attraction. There are a number of factors that could reflect a psychological vulnerability on the part of the student, such as low self-esteem, a need for authority, a pattern of repeated victimization, or difficulties with a personal relationship. "Transference" issues can come up in a close mentoring relationship just as readily as in a therapeutic relationship.  For example, a student may see her teacher as the kind of father she wished she had.

There are risk factors for the teacher as well. As with therapists, we sometimes see a pattern of predatory sexism related to a characterological impairment. This may be reflected in a series of repeated relationships, or deliberate manipulation of a professional relationship to meet personal needs. Attempts by the student to terminate the disturbing aspects of such a relationship often result in either intimidation or dependent, demanding entreaties on the part of the professional.

Sexual abuse is defined by the forcing of undesired sexual acts by one person to another.  Different types of sexual abuse involve:  Non-consensual, forced physical sexual behavior such as rape.  Psychological forms of abuse, such as verbal sexual behavior.

The use of a position of trust for sexual purposes. Position of trust is a legal term used in the U.K, the U.S, Canada, and perhaps other countries. It refers to a position of authority over another person or within an organization. Crimes committed by a person in a position of trust may be penalized more severely under the law.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
New Better Manifesto
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2007, 11:04:55 PM »
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989 on another thread""
Quote from: ""try another castle""
Despite the fact that this is a troll thread, I want to respond to CCM's ancient quote.

Teenagers are horny.
Being with someone older as a teen is sexy.
Being with someone older as a teen and that person has a position of authority over you is even sexier.
All of this is normal. There were so many adults I wanted to fuck as a teen it wasn't even funny. Had an adult been willing, I would have jumped at the chance.

Most teens would.

And any adult who takes advantage of this perfectly normal thing is a scumbag, because they should seriously fucking know better.

And I'm not talking about age in numbers. If you are 18 and you are dating a 16 year old that is fine and dandy as far as I'm concerned. If you are 35, however, that is fucked up. Why? Because of the authority dynamic. If you started dating that girl ten years later, even though the age difference is the same, the level of development is not, because that person is an adult and has learned how to set boundaries. Teens set boundaries, too, but no matter how rebellious someone is at that age, if they have a thing for an adult and those two go at it, most of that teen moxie is going to turn into mushy infatuation.

YES, it is consensual. But it's still messed up. I know several people who had consensual sex with adults while they were teens, and they always regretted it.


So, to answer the question from another thread eons ago, CCMGirl:

Quote
Does that make it wrong for the male staff since we welcomed it?

YES!!!

Just another poster who is a liar, and just another person with a foul mouth. I could care less. You're funny actually. Thanks for the laughs. Don't pretend like you know me. You don't.


See.  This is the type of thing that really makes me think she totally deserves it.  What the fuck did Castle do to her?  What did Rachael to deserve the comment about the time she got raped being "interesting".  She disclosed that publicly and it was brave to do... and what did she get for it?  She wasn't even attacking CCM as far as I remember, just questioning her Ken Kay-esque belief that staff fucking kids is just dandy.

If you want to know why it is wrong, look into why shrinks aren't allowed to ethically fuck their patients, regardless of age.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
New Better Manifesto
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2007, 11:11:58 PM »
From Rutter:

"Amorous relationships that might be appropriate in other circumstances are always wrong when they occur between any teacher or officer and any student for whom he or she has a professional responsibility. Further, such relationships may have the effect of undermining the atmosphere of trust on which the educational process depends. Implicit in the idea of professionalism is the recognition by those in positions of authority that in their relationships with students there is always an element of power. It is incumbent upon those with authority not to abuse, nor seem to abuse, the power with which they are entrusted."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
New Better Manifesto
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2007, 11:27:55 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""
My theory is that there are no good programs because the motivations are all wrong. Its sort of like a politician; no one who actually wants the office is a person who would be good doing it. People might start off running a therapeutic boarding school for good reasons, but they quickly leave and the ones who are running them for the money are all that is left. I am convinced that most of the abuse that you see in residential therapeutic facilities is because people are more interested in money than in the kids. They don't intend to harm the kids, but making a big profit naturally leads to it.

I agree with this.  I don’t think anyone wakes up in the morning and says to themselves “Lets create a school for abusing kids… lets figure out a way to isolate them from their parents and then just abuse them for the fun of it."

And what of the sadists and sociopaths?  Do they not exist?  What if the originator of a particular program was already a staff or student in position of authority...  who is already gone south on a power trip.  The term "power trip" is particularly apt, linking a drug term with the intoxicating effect of power.  Power tends to corrupt (create an addiction).  It's only a matter of time (frequency) and amount (dosage).  You'd be a fool to believe otherwise.  What most program owners have is pretty close to completely unchecked power (heroin)...

Regulations only work if enforced and there has to be jurisdiction to enforce (easy to get around when you simply change terminology from "counselor" to "coach", for example).  Program owners might think "oh... screw the state, they don't know how to help these kids, we do, etc..." and they create a justification to avoid regulation.  I'm sure greed plays a factor as well.  Gradually the money becomes more and more important...  sooner or later, It's all about the money and the power it entails.  A paycheck becomes a shackle, a lifestyle - a cage, a functioning program needed to sustain the family income.  The same most likely goes for the staff and many of the locals who might depend on the program to live.  

Remember the Milgram experiments?  The vast majority of people would electrocute others who would then scream in pain if they were told it was necessary. Those people who participated in that experiment were not held captive by any financial responsibility.  Imagine how bad the results would be if that was their job and the welfare of their family and lifestyle required it.  What did concentration camp guards do?  The mere historical existence of concentration camps should be enough proof that abusive programs can not only exist, but also easily pass undetected.  Human nature is fucked up.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
New Better Manifesto
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2007, 11:41:11 PM »
psy, why dont you try to fix the database so this doesnt happen or talk to the other Admins:

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=290398#290398

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=290400#290400

or are you going to say I timed this one just right to edit it myself....  I know the answer do you?

do you think program staff will want to post here knowing posts are still being altered and I.P.s are being outed.  I know I wouldnt if I worked for a school and wanted a place to safely tell my side of the story.

Why does this continue to happen?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »