Charging Parents as Accomplices

[Nihilanthic]

Rachael, I apologize if you have covered this many times over and I missed it.  But why did your mother think you had a problem if all the professionals in town thought you were okay?  I remember you saying you had high grades and all and you were not really big into substances (Drugs alcohol), why the detox?  She must have been hooked onto some notion that made her not believe the pros.  I missed that part of it, I guess.

Because it was a clone of STRAIGHT INC. and her mom was fucking insane, dumbass!

[TheWho]

Rachael, I apologize if you have covered this many times over and I missed it.  But why did your mother think you had a problem if all the professionals in town thought you were okay?  I remember you saying you had high grades and all and you were not really big into substances (Drugs alcohol), why the detox?  She must have been hooked onto some notion that made her not believe the pros.  I missed that part of it, I guess.

Because it was a clone of STRAIGHT INC. and her mom was fucking insane, dumbass!

Hey !!!  Careful, shouldnt you be looking for data to back up your claims?  Dont resort to name calling, porn, hate sites or gorillas, the questions was not addressed to you.

So again, show us the studies which concluded that:

1.    Most parents just knee jerk into sending their kids away for treatment.
2.   That Ed Cons make up problems.
3.   The vast majority of children in programs don't need any help at all.

Again its only fair you hold yourself to the same standards.  So you need to defend these 3 positions, they were not made by any program , they were made by you, Niles.



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[Nihilanthic]

1. Most parents just knee jerk into sending their kids away for treatment.
2. That Ed Cons make up problems.
3. The vast majority of children in programs don't need any help at all.

Unless the claims are backed up accordingly that IS the truth by deduction!

I've said this before.

The burden of proof is on the parents to prove their kid needs help
The burden of proof is on the Ed-Cons to get a diagnosis
The burden of proof is on the program to show they have a problem and need treatment, and give that treatment, prove it works, and not hold them for a long stay to make more money or because they rely on a curriculum of "personal growth" to be completed before release.

I need a damn template for this reply now.

[TheWho]

1. Most parents just knee jerk into sending their kids away for treatment.
2. That Ed Cons make up problems.
3. The vast majority of children in programs don't need any help at all.

Unless the claims are backed up accordingly that IS the truth by deduction!

I've said this before.

The burden of proof is on the parents to prove their kid needs help
The burden of proof is on the Ed-Cons to get a diagnosis
The burden of proof is on the program to show they have a problem and need treatment, and give that treatment, prove it works, and not hold them for a long stay to make more money or because they rely on a curriculum of "personal growth" to be completed before release.


I need a damn template for this reply now.

Sure it is Niles, if parents say their kids need help they need to provide some evidence, get some testing done etc..... I think we all agree with this.... but right now we are looking at what So again, show us the studies which concluded that:[/u]

1.    Most parents just knee jerk into sending their kids away for treatment.
2.   That Ed Cons make up problems.
3.   The vast majority of children in programs don't need any help at all.

You seem to like studies, so provide us with an example of what you consider to be acceptable evidence.



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[Nihilanthic]

1. Most parents just knee jerk into sending their kids away for treatment.
2. That Ed Cons make up problems.
3. The vast majority of children in programs don't need any help at all.

Unless the claims are backed up accordingly that IS the truth by deduction!

I've said this before.

The burden of proof is on the parents to prove their kid needs help
The burden of proof is on the Ed-Cons to get a diagnosis
The burden of proof is on the program to show they have a problem and need treatment, and give that treatment, prove it works, and not hold them for a long stay to make more money or because they rely on a curriculum of "personal growth" to be completed before release.

I need a damn template for this reply now.

[TheWho]

1. Most parents just knee jerk into sending their kids away for treatment.
2. That Ed Cons make up problems.
3. The vast majority of children in programs don't need any help at all.

Unless the claims are backed up accordingly that IS the truth by deduction!

I've said this before.

The burden of proof is on the parents to prove their kid needs help
The burden of proof is on the Ed-Cons to get a diagnosis
The burden of proof is on the program to show they have a problem and need treatment, and give that treatment, prove it works, and not hold them for a long stay to make more money or because they rely on a curriculum of "personal growth" to be completed before release.

I need a damn template for this reply now.

We all agree with you Niles, you are not a bad guy, but lets finish with what you said.  The parents need to provide proof for their claims (agreed), the programs need to provide proof for their claims (agreed), Niles needs to provide proof for his claims (oh no !! you changed the rules, why are you exempt?)

Provide your proof, Niles, dont hold others to a higher standard.



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[Nihilanthic]

1. Most parents just knee jerk into sending their kids away for treatment.
2. That Ed Cons make up problems.
3. The vast majority of children in programs don't need any help at all.

Unless the claims are backed up accordingly that IS the truth by deduction!

I've said this before. The burden of proof is on THEM.

The burden of proof is on the parents to prove their kid needs help
The burden of proof is on the Ed-Cons to get a diagnosis
The burden of proof is on the program to show they have a problem and need treatment, and give that treatment, prove it works, and not hold them for a long stay to make more money or because they rely on a curriculum of "personal growth" to be completed before release.

Until they back up what they've claimed for 30 years, they're fulla shit, and having taken so long and not ponied up any proof at all, I'd say its bullshit. Who wouldn't? Oh, Who wouldn't!

[TheWho]

I've said this before. The burden of proof is on THEM.

The burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim(s) and we are all looking for you to prove your statements or retract them.

You provided the links and the definition...



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[Nihilanthic]

Exactly, THEY MADE THE CLAIMS! THEY DON'T BACK THEM UP!

They've had 30 years!

Edcon's do not DX, programs do not prove their effectiveness, and parent CHOICE is not a good enough reason for incarceration!

[TheWho]

Exactly, THEY MADE THE CLAIMS! THEY DON'T BACK THEM UP!
They've had 30 years!

Edcon's do not DX, programs do not prove their effectiveness, and parent CHOICE is not a good enough reason for incarceration!

Okay, How about your claims?  Do you intend to back them up?



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[Nihilanthic]

I don't have to!

They said they do something, I say prove it. They have not.

You can not say I have to prove a negative.  :roll:

You don't get it. I don't have to prove innocence if someone says I committed a crime, they prove it. Those programs have to prove they do what they do and I'm freely allowed to say "I want some proof".

[TheWho]

I don't have to!

They said they do something, I say prove it. They have not.

You can not say I have to prove a negative.  :roll:

You don't get it. I don't have to prove innocence if someone says I committed a crime, they prove it. Those programs have to prove they do what they do and I'm freely allowed to say "I want some proof".

I agree 100%  What I am saying is you need to prove what you say, your claims (not anyone elses)... and you havent done that yet.  Lets not have double standards.



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[Nihilanthic]

I'm telling them to prove what they say.

You're trying to keep them from having to do that by saying I have to prove that what they're not proving is in fact not true.

That is like making an accused person prove his innocence.

It doesn't work that way.

Go take Logic 101

[TheWho]

I'm telling them to prove what they say.

You're trying to keep them from having to do that by saying I have to prove that what they're not proving is in fact not true.

That is like making an accused person prove his innocence.

It doesn't work that way.

Go take Logic 101

forget everyone else for a moment.. now you come on here and make statements about what the majority of parents, Edcons and children think and do without a shred of evidence.

You said the vast majority of children in programs don't need any help at all.

All I am asking is how you back up those statements... do you just make it up, pull it out your ass, like you claim others do or do you have data to support what you say.  Don’t criticize others if you cant live up to those standards yourself.  You have been jacking people up for years here and now it is your turn:

back up your statements or maybe state they are just your opinion... that would be acceptable too.



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[Anonymous]

Back it up THE WHO - Niles doesn't have to prove a damn thing.  The proof is in the pudding.

Approximately 10,000 to 20,000 kids are sent to so-called "specialty" schools (sic) every year without their parents having to show good or in fact, any cause, whatsoever.

Logic, not speculation, tells you that since these schools are designed primarily to enable parents to control their child's behavior, the majority of the kids who are (cough-cough) "enrolled" in these facilities are there by order of their parent - not the state and/or judicial system.

Parents can lock their kids up for any number of reasons, including the condition of being a normal teenager.

:roll: