Getting Tough on Private Prisons for Teens - Maia on regs

[hanzomon4]

Call me naive, but IMO, the industry's days are numbered. Not because of anything that is happening now, but because it is only a matter of time before enough of us end up in legislative positions to push for eradication as opposed to reform.

Think about it, the majority of clientele for these programs are upper/middle class whites of some influence. (Hell, I went to RMA with a DuPont as well as Barbara Walters' daughter [briefly].) What are the odds that there won't be a few who think the program was full of shit and end up on the hill? If you keep shoveling kids into these places, pretty soon all you are going to have left is a country full of survivors... and some of them, one day, are going to be in positions of influence. Contrary to popular opinion, not all of us are completely low functioning and paralyzed, or conversely, frothy programmies spouting feel-good jargon left and right and talking about how raps taught them to communicate effectively as a courtroom attorney.

Yeah yeah, I know that the numbers aren't *that* high... yet.

My point is, at some point, the country is going to *have* to deal with this, and with us, because they can't kill us all, and they most certainly have killed enough.

Besides, I doubt any of *us* are going to be sending our kids to one of these places. So... there's a bit of a chunk of the next iteration of parents who won't be buying into that. The TTI is building their own obsolescence, by creating a generation of very unhappy campers.

I'm rather jaded when it comes to ideas of reform vs. revolution. (You are talking to an ex-marxist, after all.) Reform is just lip service to people who want change, in an effort to make the shell game seem more legitimate. Revolution is normally spouted by people who wouldn't know the first thing to do if revolution actually happened. They believe in ideals, and don't understand pragmatics.  They don't forsee or try to predict possible scenarios for the aftermath and how to handle it or how to do damage control. If revolution happened, I would be as surprised and as unprepared and as taken aback as any of those industry fuckers who didn't even see it coming.

I'll go on record as casting my vote for the "eradicate the industry" tactic, but the key is in the pursestrings. Money and fear are what keeps this thing alive, so that's what must be addressed. We can't hit the people who run these places, we all know they are crazy. It's about smear... negative advertising... where's Karl Rove when you need him? He could make everyone in this country hate the TTI with a thirty second time slot. Yeah, he's an asshole, but he knows how to play people.

All I'm saying is that there are a lot of people in this country who watch TV... that's all I'm saying.

The problem with this idea is that the kind of "extremeist negativity" coming out of posts like this. Most people in this country won't even listen to it, because it sounds too extreme/off the wall. You have to fight it on their level, which is a more moderate stance.  The biggest asshole in the world can't convince the American public to shut down the industry, not in a million years.  you are going to have to start whereever you CAN make a difference. Look at how long it took for women and blacks to get the right to vote. change doesn't happen overnight. Those of you who promote NATSAP and/or the entrie industry getting get shut down as a result of the GAO investigation or any subsequent legislation, are actually getting in the way of reform. Nobody really takes you seriously. Except the trolls.

No, it took extreme stances to get real change for women and blacks. It wasn't popular at first back then. Get ride of slaves, or jim crow? Let women and niggers vote? That was some radical folks proposing those ideas, no less radical then we are. The difference perhaps is that this is now and that was then. When we look at the past struggles of blacks or women we don't always hear some of the specifics plus the issue is final in our eyes looking back. In the present orgs like Natsap or folks like Sue Scheff may not look obviously evil, groups like fornits and the ideas from it's members may look to radical, the issue is not final. Hindsight is 20/20 and socially accepted "compromises" like jim crow only delayed the radical, but right, solutions. This is about changing society not being popular and for that goal radicals are the cure.

[Anonymous]

I've worked in two different companies and have spent time working under the auspices of five different programmes. All of them regulated to one extent or another and all of them had abuse happen.

You can't force human nature to not rear its ugly head when you have a system that empowers the worst part of human nature.

So, tell us, in the 2 companies/5 programs you worked in, did you report the abuse you witnessed? To management? outside of the program? how high up the chain did it go? was management aware of it, or was it strictly line staff? or did you watch?

[Deborah]

Look at most Federal regulations, they're minimal guidelines, and the industry is against them?  The argument I remember hearing before was about the cost involved to meet requirements...that's beyond lame.  The response and general noise Catherine Freer's people are issuing is going to do them more harm than anything, especially in light of the current legal troubles of several programs.

Get rid of them all, let God sort them out.

Another argument is that it would stiffle the program's creativity. It puts too many "limitations" on the program.

Read CFW's latest- letter to the GAO Investigator  :rofl:
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 275#289275

[Che Gookin]

I've worked in two different companies and have spent time working under the auspices of five different programmes. All of them regulated to one extent or another and all of them had abuse happen.

You can't force human nature to not rear its ugly head when you have a system that empowers the worst part of human nature.

So, tell us, in the 2 companies/5 programs you worked in, did you report the abuse you witnessed? To management? outside of the program? how high up the chain did it go? was management aware of it, or was it strictly line staff? or did you watch?

log in and try asking me again.

[AuntieEm]

Perhaps not, but legislation could go a long way in providing at least some protection, and ensuring a minimum baseline of safety standards. I agree legislation is not the magic wand, and needs to address much more than just the licensing and accreditation that NATSAP promotes. After all, my son died in a regulated, licensed and accredited facility that had a good track record, a well known clinical program and all that. I mistakenly associated licensing and accreditation with regulation, like many other parents. Hopefully the hearing and the media attention will get the word out about how little regulation and oversight there is in the industry. Legislation at least starts to address this, it's not a panacea by any means.

Quote:
Creating a comprehensive system of civil rights for children is in my opinion a far stronger way of protecting children.  

This is a really good point, and is something I plan to pursue, I've already starting talking to some protection and advocacy groups about this. I hope the GAO addresses the civil rights of kids in programs. It shouldn't be any different than a hospital stay. Physical abuse and neglect aside, there are all kinds of civil rights issues. ALL kids in programs should not only have a bonafide diagnosis and treatment plan, with parental permission for any medication changes, but also access to an advocate not employed by the program. there has to be better oversight of any institutionalization of children for any reason.

In cases of human and civil rights, if there are laws on the books that make oppressive/abusive/violent actions illegal, the laws do not make the problems go away, BUT, they do provide legal recourse to those whose rights have been violated, and that is fundamentally of value. Put another way, outlawing murder and stealing does not end murder and stealing, but without those laws, victims have no recourse.

A comprehensive system of civil rights for children is long overdue. While this would not be any kind of a cure-all, it would provide a remedy under the law for individuals who have been wronged.

I share the fears expressed by others that regulation may only provide false reassurance to parents/the public.

AuntieEm

[hanzomon4]

Bump