Maybe that and the fact that the Running Springs campus was more remote than the Idaho campuses.
I haven't been to the Running Springs campus, but I assure you, the Idaho campus was quite remote. It was *very* difficult to run away, and mad props to the people who did. Both campuses, of course, were remote by design.
I don't recall Shan ever saying that it couldn't have happened, or that you were making it up. I have been in those threads, too, and if memory serves, she talked about how it never would have happened during our era. But I could be remembering it wrong, or was simply not in the threads you are referring to.
You are right, regardless of when we were there, we all suffered, and this is not a contest to see who was more oppressed than anyone else. (and I also think it would be pointless to argue the fact, and almost impossible to determine, since it is based on personal experience, and not data that can be objectively analyzed.) However, I think that it is VERY important to discuss the differences, because it exposes the evolution of the entity that is CEDU. IMO, there were some things about the newer incarnations of CEDU that were far more scary (to me) than what we went through. i.e. the punitive system. I read the transcripts from the lawsuits that were filed against the schools, such as being forced to be out in the cold as punishment, cutting the lawn with scissors, and being buried alive. We also never had that awful variation of a full-time where we had to stay out in a tent, and we never had people on bans from each other for almost the entire time we stayed there.
Most of all, we didn't have Dr. Ulrich dosing us up all the time.
Here is my theory:
When an ideology loses it's efficacy, exposes it's hypocricy, and shows cracks in its armor, something else has to replace it. In this case, it was a less subtle, and harsher punitive system. Before I even found out about the schools closing, I always had a theory that the basic ideological underpinnings of CEDU were far too contradictory, oppressive, and coercive to be effective indefinitely. They would eventually collapse upon itself, and people would see it for what it really was: bullshit. This happens in a lot of cults. People lose faith in the leader, want to leave, and so forth. At this point does the cult become less subtle and more bizarre. The timeline of a cult is almost always like this, as you can see. Jonestown started off as seeming like a really good idea, despite the fact that behind closed doors, things were bizarre and damaging to the psyche. However, as things went on, the craziness became more obvious to outsiders, until everyone was forced to commit suicide. Synanon is another example of this evolution of cult ideology, as are the Branch Dividians, and Heaven's Gate. (I'm eagerly anticipating the fall of Scientology.)
CEDU's ideological efficacy actually lasted an unusually long amount of time, since it started in 67. My theory on this is because it was forced upon teens, who have not completely evolved in their identities, and have not left their formative years behind them. The younger the student, the more damaging this is. I know that at 16, I had some solid footing to go off of (despite the fact that I was completely indoctrinated.) My initial recovery time after I graduated was short, compared to people who were sent there when they were 14. Despite the fact that the dogma was less (but still significantly) influential in later years, I think it might have been easier to shed that part of the trauma, but certainly not regarding casting off of what everyone suffered as a result of the punitive system.
Here is what was different when we were there:
It was no tolerance. (It always has been, but it was more influential when we were there, simply because of the evolutionary stage the dogma was in.) It was unheard of to do what you guys did, because we drank more kool aid. We ratted on each other, we ratted on ourselves, we looked upon people who resisted with disdain, we took care of our feelings on a regular basis, out of total fear that we would be "living our death" if we did not. I know that you guys went through this too, but by then, CEDU-think was showing its age. You resisted, and your punishments became more severe as a result. All in all, everything was a regular suckfest for any CEDU survivor.
Interestingly enough, I've noticed that there seem to be a lot more people who still believe in CEDU-think from my era, than yours. Similar to how a good portion of people who survived a full blown cult will still believe some of it for the rest of their lives. Look at the Seed, for instance. Ginger's family is practically torn in half over this. Look at Synanon. Have you heard from any members? Because I've only heard testimony from two. Nobody knows where they are, and whatshisname's synanon forum (the only one in existence, with the exception of this one, which rarely gets updated) is closed to outsiders. In some ways, when we were there, CEDU was more formally a cult, whereas when you were there, CEDU was a wilderness gulag. One is not more horrid than the other. I think that another one of the other major differences is that your generation was more aware how horrible the place was, whereas a good portion of the students from my era thought it was the cat's pajamas (at least to some extent) while we were incarcerated. Parents were always really impressed on campus tours regarding how all of the students seemed so happy and and looked them in the eye when addressing them. It was just fucking weird.
I think also, that there is a relation between when Mel was there, and when Brown owned the schools. Mel was a cult guru, a real Diederich part deux. All of the staff talked about what a visionary he was, despite the fact that he was such a blatant asshole it wasn't even funny. Brown was a company, just like WWASPS. It had a million facilities to manage. As a result, it took Mel's "vision" and templated it. It's like the difference between cooking a meal for two and making cafeteria food with the same recipes. It just won't be the same. Also, Mel had far less facilities to manage: CEDU, RMA, and Hilltop. That was it. Brown had to operate more like WWASPS. It was unable to micromanage to the extent that Mel did. Brown never had staff workshops to keep the staff in line, reinforce the doctrine and show them how he wanted them to work the program. Brown just didn't have the time to do this. As a result, the staff took more liberties in their interpretation. Most of them just as awful.
Having said this, I think that if Mel had stayed on, the same thing would have happened... eventually. Or... he would have championed all of us killing ourselves because of the threat of outside pressure and the threat of closing down the schools.
I guess the only way I can draw the difference is that in our era, our punitive system was more cerebral, while yours was more worldly and visible. Something had to fill the void that the power of CEDU-think had left behind. Neither were pleasant, and both were a total and complete surreal nightmare.
I always said that if anyone should make a film about the CEDU schools, regardless of era, it should be David Lynch. I should give him a ring.
I am glad you posted this topic, because I find evolution of these places fascinating, and discussion on it is important, (provided that people don't fall into a pissing contest about who got cornholed more severely) because we gain a certain level of perspective and insight. Contextualization of CEDU is important, because of what role it played/plays in society, its influence on other institutions/clones and the belief systems on child-rearing and drug rehabilitation our culture has gleaned as a result of its existence. This is especially important because of its one-degree-of-separation connection with synanon.
