Is there ANY program that is genuinely therapeutic?

[psy]

Besides being a youth advocate, I also work as a care coordinator, my specialty is finding services for families so they can prevent residential treatment.  Shoot me an email sometime: brian@cafety.org

Ya know... This is going to seem like a real slap across the face, Brian, but why the hell should anybody trust you?  Is it becuase you have "been there"?  Like Kevin August?  come on.  The wisest thing for parents to do in this industry is to trust nobody and run like hell when somebody offers services...  Any kind of services.  Your review of Summit, quite frankly, sounds like a "well.. this place isn't really that bad.. maybe it's one of the good ones.. in as much as a program can be good".  Slippery slope...  It's your choice whether or not to step on it, but beware of where it can lead.  You are human, and power does corrupt.  In any case, saying "trust me, but nobody else", is what everybody seems to be saying nowadays.

[nimdA]

At times I think my son's social worker is good, but I could not swear on it. I have asked for services, information and referrals but she never has anything tangible to offer.
I wish she would make the "referral to a radical mental health support group." Did your gf attend the group while in school? or was it after she left?
 
Summit is not evil not compared to what many of you have experienced. But there are things they do and don't do that are irresponsible, questionable, and even shameful at times. But they are not evil... bad things just happen to innocent people sometimes.

Back to something brought up before - Ian who is serving prison time (5-15 years) for pushing his roommate out the window - Was the fact that Summit roomed 2 boys who had no right being roomed together evil? or just criminal? What was Summit's accountability in this? Does anyone know if Ian is still in prison?

A lessor evil is no less acceptable than a greater evil.

[Anonymous]

Is there ANY program that is genuinely therapeutic?

None that you can afford.

[Karass]

Is there ANY program that is genuinely therapeutic?

None that you can afford.

Money has little to do with it. A few things all programs have in common:

• Expensive as hell, even more than real therapy or real school
  
• Unqualified/underqualified staff who get paid very little relative to an inmate's monthly "tuition"
  
• Insurance companies pay very little if any. School districts are a different story, since they have been hamstrung by IEP regulations and programs are very slick at selling their abilities to "service" the difficult students that the public schools can't handle.
  

Many more bullets should be added to the list, but the point is that cost has little to do with quality in these shitpits. They can charge "whatever" and they will find suckers to pay it. It is pretty obvious that the reason WWASPS opened its overseas programs in Mexico, Jamaica, Western Samoa, Costa Rica and Czech Republic was a marketing-driven opportunity to offer more affordable programs to middle-class parents. They clearly marketed those programs that way, to that audience. The idea being to make more money on volume, rather than catering just to upper middle class parents who can afford to pay "whatever."

The fact that enforcement in some of those countries allowed them to get away with uspeakable abuse -- for awhile -- was just icing on the cake. But they found out the hard way that some 3rd world countries can have even higher standards, ethics and concern for children's rights than the good 'ol USA.

Sadly, even after WWASPS was shut down in all of those countries except Jamaica, they have found a way to re-open in every single case -- just by not using the WWASPS affiliation.

"A kinder, gentler machine gun hand" seems to be the new mantra. That, and much slicker, more devious deception of potential parent-customers.

[psy]

Effectiveness of 12 steppery:
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html

[blombro]

I apologize, I realize how much my post sounded like that of an ed-con even when I posted it, I thought that my direction toward non-residential services might cover me.  

Do not trust me, do not trust anyone, use your own sound judgement.  In my humble opinion, as has been said here, Summit is a perfect example of how even when providers seem to be well intentioned, residential treatment is a questionable proposition.  Wish I could write more, but I have a train to catch.

[Act UP]

Psy - I am glad you asked. I would love to share one of my stories about how Summit misleads and under serves. As far as I know they have not lied. Their mentality is more the "don't tell if they don't ask" approach to things.

Without any doubt this example will be the give away of my identify to any admin at Summit. I am not afraid of the boggie men, I am not afraid...

This is about not getting what is contracted for and being mislead to believe services will be/are being rendered. We were told that Summit ran numerous therapy groups (which is not true). This was a major selling point for my son's psychopharm in his encouraging us to accepting this placement. Supplying group therapy is included in his (12month a year) IEP.

When I asked when he will join a group there was one excuse after another. Finally 4 months later, only because I kept asking did they finally tell me that they might not have an appropriate group for him, as they only had 2 groups, one focused on cutting and the other on substance abuse (or was it adoption?).

I was very clear that they needed to create a group that would be appropriate for him. (I was not just talking about my child, but most if not all their clients could benefit from this experience. And to create a truly therapeutic milieu you can not just have 1% of your population doing the work.) It seemed obvious to us that there was/is an endless choice of appropriate themes for Summit to choose from, issues of adolescence to anger management to developing coping strategies to peer relationships, etc.

It took 5 months from when he started at the school to creating a group that he could join. With all the choices to choose from they brought in a national program called "SADD" this is not bad in and of itself but it is not group therapy. I let it go, hoping it was a step in the right direction. Then SADD's focus was directed towards a non-smoking campaign. This is a great thing to do but not as part of a therapeutic group - in addition to setting these kids up to being targeted by other students not in SADD and who smoke. Why did Summit choose this topic? It seems that the state cracked down on Summit for allowing underage students to smoke during school hours. Summit used the kids in SADD to do their work. Looking for any good points I understood that the social workers could use the time to work on group dynamics, so I let it go.

Then one day my son said something about his being late to a class because of SADD. I very cautiously asked some questions only to find out that SADD's meeting time was changed from after school to during school. I was so upset by this - as if there was too much for the students to do after school so they moved it? I still don't know why this move was really done. What made this even more frustrating was that the class my son was missing is the class he has a LD issue in.

They justified the time change and his missing some of the class because it was only for 15-20 minutes. They did not realized what they were saying but how can 15-20 minutes for group therapy mean anything! They had no intention to make this group meaningful, to work on issues that are core to helping these adolescents/young adults develop any necessary and useful tools. Time is so precious and they are so irresponsible by throwing it away!

I remember they said one reason for changing the meeting from after school to during school was because they have day students too and this way they can participate. Well the day student population is at most 1/5 of the school. I think this should be an after school activity and school should run at least until 4 instead of 2:30.  

Another point on therapy - no one ever offered this information but most if not all the individual sessions with the social workers are during class time.

[Karass]

Do not trust 12 steppery when it is part of a program, a rehab or whatever. Some people have found friends there, when going on a voluntary basis as part of living their normal lives. A very tiny percentage have even gotten sober, if that was a goal they strongly believed in. Others have found good drinking buddies there, which ain't all bad either.

Just don't let yourself get addicted to meetings. The 'cure' really can be worse than the 'disease.'

[Act UP]

TS W -

A lessor evil is no less acceptable than a greater evil.

My point exactly!

[Nihilanthic]

Program and Therapy are diametrically opposed.

Seriously.

Programs are about stupid labels, non-existent dx and non-existent criteria for anything wrong, non-existent treatment, and non-existent rights being protected.

All programs do is in so many words say the problem is ultimately the child not being submissive and obedient enough and making them be that way, go through a level system, and the whole time disclose their innermost, most personal and embarrassing shit/baggage/you name it to the program.

Whereas, actual therapy isn't based on abduction, captivity, isolation, obedience, and everything else I listed above.

So, the crux of it all is...

Sorry, you have to be a mom. Yeah, its harsh, but its the honest to god truth.

Can't handle it? It would probably be better for your child if you abandoned him than sent him to a program if you can't take the heat.

I bet that pissed you off too.

But, hey, its the truth! Offer actual therapy, try to support instead of punish and be a distant authoritarian, and realize your child is another person, not an extension of yourself or a pet or an object you own.

Also, I'm not implying anything by what I say, but as many parents have come in as there are... over so much time, and most of them were looking for a quick answer, attention for themselves, or some way to justify and rationalize program placement, well, you eventually get sick of the exact same thing over and over and over again.

The only answer, in short, is YOU HAVE TO BE A PARENT.

Period.

And I stand by that.

[Act UP]

Some people don't see Summit as a "program" in the way you are speaking of. But for some people a program by any other name is still a program.

It is not accurate to say

ultimately the child not being submissive and obedient enough and making them be that way, go through a level system, and the whole time disclose their innermost, most personal and embarrassing shit/baggage/you name it to the program.

There is no level system there. A student comes in with all their privileges (cellphone, computers, TV, home visits, trips, movie night) and it is up to them whether they keep them or lose them. They are not requiring or seeking submission from the student.

 

Can't handle it? It would probably be better for your child if you abandoned him than sent him to a program if you can't take the heat.

In my opinion that is a ridiculous statement. But no problem, I've heard worse.

most of them were looking for a quick answer, attention for themselves, or some way to justify and rationalize program placement

Maybe, but not so here. I know there are no quick answers, although I wouldn't mind a magic pill. I am not looking for your agreement nor your submission. I came here seeking information, I heard it, I got it. I have remained so I could explain my choices and give some info on the "summit experience".

The long and short of it all.... is I love being his mom. I would never throw him away or wish for a "different" child/teacher. He is un-freaken-believable! And he makes the best damn brownies ever!

[Nihilanthic]

I didn't read the thread and I'm not going to.

What I said a program is, is what a program is. If summit doesn't hold them captive, manipulate them, isolate them from the world, etc, then they aren't a program.

Regarding the other two things:

It IS better for a kid to be abandoned than to be thrown into a program. Why not ask people who were, or people who ran out of programs, or people who were 'exit planned'?

I'm glad you've accepted there is no quick answer for SOMEONE ELSES PROBLEMS, but 99% of everyone else who is a parent seems unable to understand that.

[Karass]

ActUp, you seem to be reinforcing the idea that the school portion of the program is bullshit and the therapy portion is also bullshit. So why is your son still there, instead of at home with the people who know and understand him best?

If there is no suitable therapist he can see locally as an outpatient, is there no way you can send him to NYC or some other nearby big city for treatment?

I understand the school is paying for this nonsense as an IEP, so it doesn't affect your family finances one way or another. I don't mean that disrespectfully, but if it were coming out of your pocket, would you have a different attitude? I know that in our son's case, we were stressing about the fact that we were potentially spending his college money -- or "get a life money" -- on a questionable "therapeutic" program that was untested, unproven, un-everything. It was just quackery with slick marketing. He's a smart kid and he deserved better than the bullshit that passes for 'education' in a TBS. For that matter, he deserved better than the bullshit that passes for education in the public schools. He deserved better than to starve in the wilderness that we stupidly thrust him into.

We decided not to take the 'next step,' to TBS -- we brought him home and sought local therapy (for the umpteenth time, after many failed attempts) and decided to let him sink or swim on his own. Not quite true -- we sort of bailed him out of a few jams that could've been serious shit for him, but we looked the other way and said "this is the last time dude." But he mostly got it -- that he was almost an adult (and is now and has been for quite awhile) and that he needed to take responsibility for his own life.

He has been to some very expensive therapy since his program experience, but only on his own terms -- he goes if he wants, doesn't if he doesn't. We've told him hey if you don't like this person, don't go -- find someone else, or no one at all if that's what you think is best. Take psychiatric meds or not -- it's your choice. If you think they help, great. If not, that's great too. We have told him we will offer him some financial support and TONS of emotional support in whatever he wants to do -- get a job, go to college, whatever -- and the biggest struggle has been whether he wants to do anything at all.

He has often thought that life is not worth living and that there's not point to all of this b.s. That -- depression  and some half-assed suicide attempts -- has been the biggest challenge. Figuring out that some things -- even if it's sex, drugs and rock & roll -- are better than death. Surprise, surprise, he is starting to figure out that there's more to life than death, and even more than sex, drugs & rock & roll -- that there's something more that's worth doing with oneself, even if sex, drugs & rock & roll seems pretty cool in and of itself. He is starting to realize that just maybe he can do something to influence his friends, society and the world at large, for the better -- and that 'for the better' is better than 'for the worse.'

I'm sure my wife would cringe, but I tell him things like "it helps to get laid once in awhile," and he sheepishly says things like "duh, don't you think I know that?"

He's not out of the woods, but he is well on his way. Your kid can be too. I'm not saying "laissez faire," anything goes. More like, back off and see what inspires him, see what he really likes in this world. See if you can't just sit back and let him figure all that out for himself, with your support -- but without your intervention.

[Nihilanthic]

Not letting teenagers get out and do their own thing fucks them up.

You want proof?

I got AIM, YIM, and MSN. Contact me.

[*]

Why can't he attend public school?  (You mentioned he would be home all day by himself).

What is it about the school that makes you think they can do a better job than you can?  

You would be able to oversee the therapies you want him to receive.  

What is it about his behavior that makes it impossible for him to live at home?