Author Topic: Puff-puff  (Read 9348 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Princess Leah

  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Puff-puff
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2003, 03:00:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-05-16 11:30:00, JDavid wrote:

"And the only way I see that we can avoid this cycle "started out again trying to take over the world" is if the ideas of anarchists continue to spread from generation to generation until the day comes to live in an anti-heirarchical world.

"






*SUCKING REALLY, REALLY, REALLY HARD NOW...**...hold!.......*COUGH!!!*


Good idea....EAR!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ClayL

  • Posts: 373
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Puff-puff
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2003, 03:58:00 PM »
JDavid wrote:
"I bet you're still paying for that land anyway."

I hate to disappoint you but, no. The land is mine. Also it is not execution but a God given right. You know, that life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness thing that Jefferson put in the Decleration of Independence. Locke referred to Liberty as Property though. The very old English principle that a man's home is his castle.

I would not call this view evolution, but regression. Back to the caveman days where the strongest ruled.

I'm not saying that if people respected my stuff accidents wouldn't happen. I am saying that if people respected my stuff they'd be more careful so accidents wouldn't occur so frequently.

The thing is, with everybody sitting on their asses 14 hours a day there would be no utilities, food, medical or any production from the local community.

What I'm really interesed to know is, what is this ruling class you keep referring to? I tend to believe that there are wealthy people and there are people that are dirt poor. Nobody makes either work or give their services away for nothing. Hmmm.... Come to think of it...

Your entire premise is FOS! What you are talking about relies on a barter system. I'd like to remind you that a barter system is very rudimentary capitalism. I'll grow this vegetable and give it to you for that shirt. You can have this pig, if you cure my child.

CL
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ClayL

  • Posts: 373
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Puff-puff
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2003, 04:20:00 PM »
What I see is a need for higher throughput for encryption accelerators for VPN performance, XML accelerators for Web services transactions, solid state hard disks and in-memory databases for interactive data analysis tasks, and graphics accelerators for image processing and 3-D visualization.

encryption accelerators for VPN performance= Techno babble for better security for Virtual Private Networking. You know all the talk about telecommuting? This is it. What they are doing is creating a tunnel connection through a public network establishing a private connection between the user PC and the local area network.

XML accelerators for Web services transactions,= Speeding up the back-end database transactions for website data.

solid state hard disks and in-memory databases for interactive data analysis tasks = Giant sized RAM chips that are non-volitile that can be used as hard disks. No moving parts, MUCH faster I/O.

and graphics accelerators for image processing and 3-D visualization. Really groovy cool  video cards that allow for really zippy refreash times. Would allow for 3-D presentations.

CL
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ClayL

  • Posts: 373
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Puff-puff
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2003, 04:27:00 PM »
One other thing. I believe the "ruling class" doesn't change. Just the type of people in it. In the 1960's computer people were the pasty geeks that you needed an interpreter to speak with. Now they are among the wealthiest people in the world. The same thing, disgustingly in my opinion, is happening with professional atheletes, some of whom are exceedingly bright. There will always be someone willing to pay what the market will bear.

CL
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ClayL

  • Posts: 373
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Puff-puff
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2003, 04:39:00 PM »
Ginger:

I agree, but don't mind those taxes as much as income tax. Everyone feels the "pain" of those taxes, not everyone pays income tax and most people actually pay very little income tax if at all. I mean the government needs some money if nothing else than to keep those bone heads from finding real jobs and then really messing things up.

Ted earned most of his money, in the beginning through advertising. Then he struck a deal with the fledgling cable industry and called the station a superstation. He did well again by founding CNN.

I tend to think protectionist measure turn and bite ones own ass in the long run and the Citrus Mafia will have to find this out on their own. I was reading an article the other day about the go've use of Iminient Domain and FL has one of the worst records out there. Espicially using it to take peoples property and then give it to private concerns. I think CT was the greatest offender though. The abuse of this clause has become so rampant in some states that there is a ground swelling backlash and even attempts to pass laws limiting the governments power.

I think free markets are the best thing in the world. I again think the is an unlawful use of the commerce clause.

CL
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline JDavid

  • Posts: 218
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/moondiggum
Puff-puff
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2003, 04:54:00 PM »
If a man's home is his castle, you approve of  mortgage companies and rent regimes being practically the only ones who own men's castles?  Rather than having the freedom to build your castle yourself, you approve of having to serve the wealthy so they will allow you to build it or should you have the freedom to just go build it?  Would you rather build it yourself or do you need to restrict access to the means of survival so that the Mexican construction workers will have to serve you by building your house so they can aquire temporary access to the means of survival by getting paid?

Property is theft.

Yeah, regression from your status of enforced privilege.  That is what it is indeed, and I'm looking forward to the dethroning all capitalists.

You think equality (anti-heirchical) society means that only the strongest will rule?  Uh well, who rules now?  The greediest, heartless and most manipulative group on the face of the planet is who rules now.  You like that though, I already see.  No need to announce that you approve of it.  

That is short sighted to jump to the conclusion that the strongest will rule in an anarchy.  What in the world are they going to rule?  How is the strongest person or group going to manage to take over a community's entire communist-oriented production of all of the essentials in order to force people to obey them?  If they succeed, they would either be conquered shortly afterwards by the self-defending masses or the masses would just leave the community and go empower some other anarcho-communism.  It is too fluid for any small group to conquer and maintain the conquest once anarchy is established.

Yeah, well let's keep government in place so they can defend your furniture from cigarette burns, even though they already failed because the furniture is already burned.

What makes you think people need to be forced (by capitalism) to provide utilities, medical, food and construction?  People want all of that, and they are willing to do what it takes to get it.  Once capitalism is dead, people will continue to operate and produce, and it has nothing to do with bartering.  Bartering is more like in the market socialism areas of trade, external yet coexisting with anarcho-communism.  No one in an anarcho-communism is going to keep tight trading tabs on anyone.  It is from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.  Actually, I think the 2 hour work day is a high estimate.  A town near me has 18,000 people.  If I do some complicated economic math, I might find that each person would have to do maybe an hour every two weeks for the entire community to have full, unrestricted access to all the means of survival for that community.  I will do the math later.

The ruling class is anyone who is free from living under mortgage & rent plus collecting taxes (government), collecting rent, collecting mortgage payments, or sitting at the top tier of a corporation making 400 to 1000 times more than the workers of that business.  To clarify who the ruling class is in one lump: they are the people who are living off of other people's need to survive while not producing anything.  Not producing anything does include those executives mentioned earlier, because the workers produce, not the executives.  Those are the people who are sitting on their asses all day every day.

I think your entire premise is full of shit.  Your premise offers nothing more than the sorry world we live in right now, and it's a premise that does not improve.  It is doomed.



[ This Message was edited by: JDavid on 2003-05-16 16:41 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ehm

  • Posts: 1123
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Puff-puff
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2003, 05:53:00 PM »
Clay -You're a geek/wizard. (Just like Jonathan ::heart:: )

Ginger -You're the Ruler :nworthy:  (UNTOUCHABLE)

 ::deal:: JDavid -Your ideas sound good, until you apply them to the world WE live in.
 
Anon -You hit a nerve! Stop using the word communism out of proper context. Look what you started!!! hehe  :smokin:

Me = Howard Cosell/Patricia Arquette/ and a *honey bear bong. :wink:  

*See True Romance
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline JDavid

  • Posts: 218
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/moondiggum
Puff-puff
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2003, 07:35:00 PM »
Well, what is it you think will prohibit it from working in the world we live in?  What is it that will prohibit mankind from production once all restrictions are removed?  Restrictions are an artificial method of creating scarcity, which is to boost the demand only for the gain of those who placed those restrictions.  Those restrictions are what drive people to commit most crimes, because the abundance in order to render such crimes obsolete is not available.  The abundance has been hijacked by capitalists.


[ This Message was edited by: JDavid on 2003-05-16 16:37 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ehm

  • Posts: 1123
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Puff-puff
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2003, 07:48:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-05-16 16:35:00, JDavid wrote:

"Well, what is it you think will prohibit it from working in the world we live in?  What is it that will prohibit mankind from production *once all restrictions are removed?  Restrictions are an artificial method of creating scarcity, which is to boost the demand only for the gain of those who placed those restrictions.  Those restrictions are what drive people to commit most crimes, because the abundance in order to render such crimes obsolete is not available.  The abundance has been hijacked by capitalists.



And most likely always will be. I'm not on any political side. (I'm sure that's obvious) I just don't see things changing THAT drastically ever. I do believe in dreaming though.

 
*When might that be?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline JDavid

  • Posts: 218
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/moondiggum
Puff-puff
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2003, 07:59:00 PM »
You say it most likely always will be, but you didn't give a reason you think that.  You're giving too much credit to the capitalists.  The people who are holding the capitalists in power are the working class.  They greatly outnumber the ruling capitalists.  The ruling capitalists' numbers are always shrinking while the working and poverty class numbers are always growing.    It's only a matter of time before the working class refuses to support them anymore.

Quote
On 2003-05-16 16:48:00, Mo wrote:


And most likely always will be. I'm not on any political side. (I'm sure that's obvious) I just don't see things chang*When might that be?

ing THAT drasticly ever. I do believe in dreaming though.


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ehm

  • Posts: 1123
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Puff-puff
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2003, 08:35:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-05-16 16:59:00, JDavid wrote:

"You say it most likely always will be, but you didn't give a reason you think that.  You're giving too much credit to the capitalists.  The people who are holding the capitalists in power are the working class.  They greatly outnumber the ruling capitalists.  The ruling capitalists' numbers are always shrinking while the working and poverty class numbers are always growing.    It's only a matter of time before the working class refuses to support them anymore.



Quote

On 2003-05-16 16:48:00, Mo wrote:



And most likely always will be. I'm not on any political side. (I'm sure that's obvious) I just don't see things chang*When might that be?


ing THAT drasticly ever. I do believe in dreaming though.




"


I just do. I'm not going to debate it. It seems what is realistic, that's all.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline JDavid

  • Posts: 218
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/moondiggum
Puff-puff
« Reply #41 on: May 16, 2003, 08:48:00 PM »
I think it is extremely unrealistic.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Puff-puff
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2003, 09:32:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-05-16 16:35:00, JDavid wrote:

"Well, what is it you think will prohibit it from working in the world we live in?  What is it that will prohibit mankind from production once all restrictions are removed?  Restrictions are an artificial method of creating scarcity, which is to boost the demand only for the gain of those who placed those restrictions.  Those restrictions are what drive people to commit most crimes, because the abundance in order to render such crimes obsolete is not available.  The abundance has been hijacked by capitalists.





Well, the way our system of government was set up was based on a large body of history and philosophy from the Magna Carta to the experiences of the Iroquois alliance, among other things. The big challenge is to figure a way to throw in some of our resources to address common problems, like restricting thieves from just coming in and taking the harvest, leaving the farmer and his family to starve.

That's not what's going on here today. Today, there's little practical restriction on theft provided one wears a suite and tie and does it in such a way as a good banking lawyer has something to work with. And there's every restriction on making a living. Don't believe me? Just try going into some ordinary business without getting permission and paying licensing fees from the government.

Want to know why goods and services generally suck and are too expensive for a lot of people to afford? No competition in those arenas. As long as you can do what has to be done to keep that official looking license hanging on your wall, nothing else matters very much. Every ounce of effort dedicated to appeasing the gods of regulation  :nworthy: is taken away from competing in the fields of quality and price.

Now, under your plan, what's to stop someone from taking your house once you've built it. As a matter of fact, we're having sort of a rough time these days. How about if I pack up my husband, two kids, dog and office and just move right in to your house. You'll just have to scoot over and get used to late night TV because we need the house for awhile. What? It's your house? You don't want to share? I thought not.

"I predict, Sir, that you will die either by hanging or of some vile disease."
 "That all depends, sir, upon whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."
--Disraeli to Gladstone

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline METALGOD8

  • Posts: 365
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Puff-puff
« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2003, 09:42:00 PM »
OK, thanks. I still have a little struggling to do reading that, but it makes a lot more sense now. There was some reason I never got into computer stuff. I love to smash them and put their components in acid for gold recovery purposes, but, not able to read and understand all that other jargon etc...

I would like to know from both sides here how computers would factor into the world of now and the way it will be for eons and eons, and the anarchist one. Would I be able to choose my ISP?
The way the Gumment is now, if you don't do what they say, best watch out, might end up being tried as a terrorist or something. I think that carries the death penalty, but I could be wrong.

MG8 :smokin:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ehm

  • Posts: 1123
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Puff-puff
« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2003, 09:47:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-05-16 17:48:00, JDavid wrote:

"I think it is extremely unrealistic."



I know this. Why not agree to disagree? Sound like a plan to you? :grin:

Have a great weekend everyone.

*kissie*  *kissie*
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »