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Offline GOATFLAVOR

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ITS TOUGH
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2007, 07:13:46 AM »
It is hard because of the subject.  It touches on instant emotion to deal with some of these things.  

Let me tell you some of the things I have seen, starting for me at the ranch, that do not disturb me.

I have seen the chance to serve a group of kids that no one else was serving because they were too much of a risk.

I have seen the chance to join up with other people that do their best to do the same thing.

I have seen plenty of that.
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Offline ZenAgent

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« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2007, 01:56:01 PM »
Under-funded and underpaid are complaints I've heard, but don't agree with.  Peninsula Village is non-profit, but they still turn a huge profit and the staffers are still underpaid.  That's fucking greed at work, and that's the problem with turning teenage angst into an industry.

As far as your question about who's offering solutions, well, read up some more.  I've been pushing for Wraparound, community-based treatment that doesn't require a kid to be yanked out of his/her home for being a teenager.  Wraparound involves the parents in treatment much more than the fast food method, "pizza delivery service" TBSs would ever want to.  If you're as experienced as you say, I'm sure you're aware that the parents are often a prime cause of the acting-out of their kids, whether they know it or not.  Parents need some lessons, too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline GOATFLAVOR

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READING AND DOING
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2007, 07:10:34 AM »
Reading and doing are two different things.
I am all for new ideas.
I am all for education and research.
I support your ideas and I hope they work.
I am more for application and chances to serve.
I don't  think i am an expert.
i am far far from it.
i have too much respect for the people that do this to think that of myself.
i just wanted to add that good things happened at star ranch,
as well as what ever negative things  happened there.
I worked there in the past, and I worked hard to do my job well, and I know several other people that did the same.
I have seen and read enough to know the gaps between
talk and application.
people doing is where it is at.
show me that.
It is what I am looking for.

I agree with your industry comment
Making this work about dollars will never work
People's hearts need to change
I don't think the state is able to address that
It is a huge part of why i stopped working for them
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Offline hanzomon4

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« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2007, 08:48:52 AM »
I'm lost on what you mean by doing so I'll give two responses:
1st responses
Taking action is great and is something I encourage you to do. Starting with educating parents on the issue of abuse surrounding much of the troubled teen industry is a good start. Showing parents real alternatives and, as Juile wrote, true quality of care in regards to inpatient treatment. However, despite your experience, you need to spend time learning from others experiences... Especially those of survivors.    

2nd response
I think I get what you're saying about doing but working for a place that's abusive is not going to keep one kid safe. Thats the trap Kevin fell in, the idea that you, in someway, can be the gate & guardian who keeps kids safer.

It's totally unacceptable for any kid to be abused and saving a few, or a lot, along the way doesn't make the scale balance out. Basically what I'm saying is that the "I saw some bad, but many more kids were helped then hurt" adage is a flawed justification spawned from good intentions.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2007, 08:56:52 AM »
Jack is back. How did the lawsuit turn out anyway?
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Offline ZenAgent

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« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2007, 04:57:59 PM »
There are three former program employees I know of posting on Fornits, you make a fourth.  This is basically a forum for survivors, not experts on adolescent mental healthcare reform.  The majority of us lean toward the raze 'em all, scorched earth policy for programs.  There are some good ones, but they're short-term, acute care treatment facilities geared toward getting a child stable and ready to re-integrate as quickly as possible, with oupatient care upon release.  You never see the names of these facilities here, and for good reason.

What exactly are you expecting from a group of survivors and parents as far as ideas about re-structuring an industry that in my opinion is fucked-up beyond repair?  Seriously, look at the names of the programs on this forum and find one that would be missed if the Earth opened up under it and swallowed it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline GOATFLAVOR

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OK
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2007, 09:17:09 PM »
I am not an expert
I am not defending any program or any certain way of doing things
If things need to be changed than I am all for it
I am a person who wants to serve
and I have felt the strains of trying to
I did not see that side represented in the discussion
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Offline hanzomon4

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« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2007, 11:11:18 PM »
Well you have to understand that most of us have more sympathy for the kids then we ever will for the staff, even the ones who mean well. Don't take that as a knock to what you tried to accomplish, anyone who tries to make a difference is certainly welcomed. Your concerns, if corrected, would improve the situation, but the fact of the matter is that you can't nurse something back to health that was sick from the start.

The industry is simply built atop a faulty foundation, it needs scraping. Understand that people who get into the industry with the intention of helping kids, like you did, will not accomplish what they set out to do. It's like working for the devil to save souls from hell. Your goals are not consistent with those of this awful industry.  If you think I'm wrong just look at the history. The industry changes only when it needs to cover it's ass, smoke and mirrors not progress.

I would suggest that you get into a mentoring program for kids and young adults. Volunteer with organizations that truly help kids, boys and girls clubs, ymca, tutoring, if you have skills as a counselor perhaps working with the Red Cross in devastated areas like New Orleans, where they need help bad cause suicide has gone through the roof, would be more appropriate.

Aye... I don't know man...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline psy

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Re: OK
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2007, 12:14:28 AM »
Quote from: ""GOATFLAVOR""
I am not an expert
I am not defending any program or any certain way of doing things
If things need to be changed than I am all for it
I am a person who wants to serve
and I have felt the strains of trying to
I did not see that side represented in the discussion


I value your opinion.

You wouldn't be here if you weren't looking for answers, If you didn't have something to say, but I suspect are hesitant to betray your friends on the staff by discussing what went on... am I right?

Right now, there are three sides here, there are parents, there are survivors, and there is you, a staff member.  The response you've gotten so far is miraculously pretty clean.  I suspect this is because people sense you were trying to do the right thing.  But ask yourself...  Can the "right thing" in your eyes change over time?  I'm sure you had good intentions, but what were the results.  Did you aid what was unjust because it was easier than resisting?  You say you want to serve, but do you have the courage to lead, only subject to your conscience?

Recent research shows that ethics are more or less hard-wired in the brain.  It's all based on empathy apparantly.  Causing another person pain, even in animals, is known to be wrong on an neuropsychological level...  However, when known, learned, morality conflicts, judgements can go either way.  I trust my "conscience".  Hurting another person is wrong, period.  Causing another person pain...  Or discomfort..  or removing a person from a "comfort zone"  Regardless of the euphemism, It's wrong.

The ends do not justify the means, especially when those ends (desired behavior) require creating such discomfort in another person that they submit to the will of another and forfeit choice.  And down the slippery slope of gradual submission we go:  After choice, identity.  After identity, values.  After values, truth.  After truth, love.  It's a rape of the mind.  Use whatever euphemism you wish, the reality of it is this: beating another human being into submission.  Method is irrelavant.  There is no kind method of coersion.

"I'd rather be a free man in my grave, than living as a puppet of a slave" - Bob Dylan

These are my opinions.  What are yours?  How did you come to them?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline GOATFLAVOR

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I have
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2007, 02:33:13 AM »
I have plenty of ideas about work I do and work I have done in the past.  I feel like being on this forum and mentioning that I have worked at the ranch will make me some sort of representative and that is not the case.  I have not worked there for several years.  

My goal is and was to be on the side of the child and I pray for anybody else that shares that goal because it is not easy
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Offline psy

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Re: I have
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2007, 06:40:09 AM »
Quote from: ""GOATFLAVOR""
I have plenty of ideas about work I do and work I have done in the past.  I feel like being on this forum and mentioning that I have worked at the ranch will make me some sort of representative and that is not the case.  I have not worked there for several years.  

My goal is and was to be on the side of the child and I pray for anybody else that shares that goal because it is not easy


Absolutely.  Why wasn't it easy?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline nimdA

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Re: OK
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2007, 08:37:04 AM »
Quote from: ""GOATFLAVOR""
I am not an expert
I am not defending any program or any certain way of doing things
If things need to be changed than I am all for it
I am a person who wants to serve
and I have felt the strains of trying to
I did not see that side represented in the discussion


That texas camp used long terming camping if I'm not mistaken. What sort of living structures were avaliable, and did the kids have to build them?
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am the metal pig.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2007, 04:00:36 PM »
Wouldn't it be funny if GOAT was TheWho?  :wink:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2007, 04:33:08 PM »
Weird format style going on, too, kinda reminds me of HAL in 2001...

"Dave...the program is good.
It's the kids who are malfunctioning.
Dave...caress me and call me your Electric Aunt Jemimah."
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Offline Ursus

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« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2007, 05:01:45 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Weird format style going on, too, kinda reminds me of HAL in 2001...

"Dave...the program is good.
It's the kids who are malfunctioning.
Dave...caress me and call me your Electric Aunt Jemimah."


CLICK ME!!
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