Author Topic: get off your butts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  (Read 2200 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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get off your butts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« on: May 16, 2007, 08:28:09 PM »
It's time we all get off our butts!!!!!
Thousands of posts going back for years and nothing has changed. More programs than ever are open!!!!
I viewed aTranquility Bay documentary.To phrase an overused term- I was shocked and awed. I feel
terrible for those teens.So I am setting out to do something. I am setting up a bank account which you all can donate to.
I help survivors.
I will drive and take 18 y/o's leaving programs and give them a place to stay. I will help pay their rent, cook. Help them get jobs and help them shop for their first couch. I will do what their parents could not do!Donate to me-- I read a lot of bad things here that confirms the Tranquility bay movie is true. I can't believe nobody has lifted a finger to do anything about this.

If you want to donate money please send Paypal payments to:helpkidsinreallife@yahoo.com-or call me, Geraldine Marshall at 629-229-0375
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline teachback

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get off your butts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2007, 08:40:42 PM »
Hey well imagine a colony constructed of used tires and concrete. Beautiful, isn't it? Well maybe not so beautiful at first, but surely it will improve with age! The Tire Ranch!! Its raison d'etre will be to provide a guaranteed free dwelling space for Survivors who are in need of a place to call home, or maybe just a place to party & crash for a while. The Tire Ranch will offer a sanctuary for survivors.

As for locations, I've considered Alaska, the Mojavé Desert or maybe some pretty little 'uncharted' island somewhere.

Once the initial framework is expanded upon, the Tire Ranch will become quite a place indeed! However, our residents will not be permitted to just sit around all day either! You'll only get out of it what you put into it! There is no doubt that you will feel like shit about yourself if you don't work every day for the better of the Tire Ranch! We will do what we can to provide food, clothing, drugs, music, beds, showers, wireless internet, dune buggies or snow mobiles, sex toys, guitars, drums, guns & all of the other necessities! We will do our best to see to it that we accommodate everyone involved, on that you have my word!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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get off your butts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2007, 08:59:39 PM »
The reason there are more programs is because this industry is parent driven and most of the parents who use these programs are not looking for help. They are looking for a place to dump their kid.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

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get off your butts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2007, 09:55:39 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
The reason there are more programs is because this industry is parent driven and most of the parents who use these programs are not looking for help. They are looking for a place to dump their kid.

not true in most cases.  fear is a powerful motivator.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anonymous

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get off your butts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2007, 10:37:49 PM »
Fear is a factor, but not the number one reason parents turn to these programs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2007, 03:56:43 AM »
Quote from: ""grasshopper""
Hey well imagine a colony constructed of used tires and concrete. Beautiful, isn't it? Well maybe not so beautiful at first, but surely it will improve with age! The Tire Ranch!! Its raison d'etre will be to provide a guaranteed free dwelling space for Survivors who are in need of a place to call home, or maybe just a place to party & crash for a while. The Tire Ranch will offer a sanctuary for survivors.

As for locations, I've considered Alaska, the Mojavé Desert or maybe some pretty little 'uncharted' island somewhere.

Once the initial framework is expanded upon, the Tire Ranch will become quite a place indeed! However, our residents will not be permitted to just sit around all day either! You'll only get out of it what you put into it! There is no doubt that you will feel like shit about yourself if you don't work every day for the better of the Tire Ranch! We will do what we can to provide food, clothing, drugs, music, beds, showers, wireless internet, dune buggies or snow mobiles, sex toys, guitars, drums, guns & all of the other necessities! We will do our best to see to it that we accommodate everyone involved, on that you have my word!


Hell yeah, the Tire Ranch sounds like a great idea.  I suggest a location where medical marijauna is legally recognized.  Solar power, hydroponics, satellite links, and biodeisel could make this thing a reality.  We should look into starting a nonprofit to help fund it, then look for a rich weirdo who wants a tax write-off.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline exhausted

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get off your butts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2007, 10:41:24 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Fear is a factor, but not the number one reason parents turn to these programs.
No it isn't, we all have to remember that parents are literally at their wits end and do not know where to turn, usually they've tried everything else, although there is the odd stray parent who just cant be bothered to parent or think that a tiny little thing is cause to put their kid in program, but on the whole I think they treally are very afraid that their kid will end up dead .. you can't blame them for wanting to send them somehwere that they can't do drugs, commit serious crimes, or generally keep them safe from harm, if that's what they believe they are doing, then it's unfair to criticise them for it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2007, 11:38:55 AM »
Far too many kids are in these programs because of "good intentions".

Parents who believe the ends justify the means.

I call it the "abuse excuse".

Others may call it "desperate".

And I wouldn't disagree.  

It is desperate to authorize others to abuse your child under the pretext of "saving" them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline exhausted

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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2007, 12:21:44 PM »
Now come on Guest that is unfair, I'd agree with you whole heartedly if the parents KNEW their kid was going to an abusive program and still did it anyway, not many are going to hear about any abuse, you've read it here from survivors - the kids aren't allowed to say they are being abused and even if they do they have already been prewarned that their teen is going to try to manipulate them by saying so - parents turn for help and expect to get that help from people who are meant to be experts in that field ... it's not their fault if that's not the case.

When patients of Dr Harold Shipman called him out, did they expect to be murdered by him? No, because he is the expert and they trusted him, it's the same thing, there were several cases of abuse and murder in his life as a doctor, but hindsight is a wonderful thing, there were several warning signs, yet no-one really took much note
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2007, 12:34:54 PM »
Dr shipman was not selling experimental medicine, however. His evil was hidden under a guise of traditional medicine, that he was just an ordinary GP. These programs are not sold as traditional boarding schools or therapy, but some twisted middle between therapy and prison.  Some posters here explain that simply reading the marketing material of programs was enough to peak their curiosity in this industry.
Program parents are like people seeking some exotic, unknown, cancer cure, even worse these parents child is not even diseased in the first place. The Dr shipman analogy, is off base IMO. Program parents are more like those parents who purposely make their child sick so they get the attention.
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Offline psy

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get off your butts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2007, 01:29:20 PM »
To some degree, guest is right. I knew a lot of kids in program who had parents who were very very rich, and just wanted to get rid of the kids and feel good about it.  They wanted somebody else to "fix em".  These are not the parents that are likely to be posting on ST regularly... Why?  They don't give a shit at all.

On the other hand, the parents that did care, were just scared.  

I don't think many, if any, parents knew of the abuse.  Like exhausted said, they would be forewarned for "manipulation"...  However, I'm not sure this completely absolves parents of the responsibility to investigate...  But then again, programs are good at covering things up, providing a pretty facade.  Parents might come and interview a few kids, program would select these kids...

They could:
- provide multiple students to interview (peer reporting)
- provide a known brainwashed student to interveiw
- let the parents ask questions of the kids in front of the staff..

Even if they did none of these things, and let a parent interview a single kid privately, or even multiple kids, a kid knows, when answering a parent's questions, that if the parent gets alarmed, and pulls his kid, there will be huge consequences.  Program has ways...  Program will find out, even if you can't think of how.  You know this.  In Program there are no secrets.

I don't blame parents for being sceptical, and even with Fornits, It's not exactly a parent friendly enviornment where questions can get asked calmly.  Why?  You get a parent who has been talking to staff for the past year, shows up on Fornits.... and sees his kid everywhere.  Parent uses program language, this sets people off, most parents don't come back, and end up thinking Fornits is a bunch of crazies, when in reality, you could argue, we are just better informed, as we have been there.

That being said, the communication spin from program works both ways.  We have never been in the position of program parents.  I suppose you could say i'm lucky to have read the correspondance between my parents and program.  The bullshit was plausable, believable, well written...   It had holes in it, but only somebody who had been in program could point them out...  That is the weakness.

From an outside perspective, most of the stuff you read on fornits sounds like alien abductions.  It sounds absurd, it sounds like it could never happen.  People said the same thing about concentration camps, until they started running across them, far far too late.

The weakness of programs is the commuincation buffer between parents and thier kids.  It's part and parcel of every single program.  Whether it is implimented by questioning the parents after the fact, monitoring the phone calls directly, through peers, through fear, or some other innovative method, the result is the same.  If you can talk to parents who have kids in program, or are considering it, you can ask them questions, analyze the situation, point out likely bullshit, and suggest the "right" questions to ask their kids and/or program.  Once the parents figure out they are being lied to, they start to distrust the program...  They listen to their kids more...  Hopefully, before too much damage is done, they figure it out and withdrawl them... perhaps informing other program parents along the way, poisoning the system from within.

I've said it before and i'll probably say it again many many times...  Parents are the strength, and weakness of the industry.  They hold all the cards, and if you show them they are being cheated... and their kids are being abused...  Even the apathetic ones will feel obliged to do something.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anonymous

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get off your butts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2007, 01:34:08 PM »
Quote from: ""grasshopper""
Hey well imagine a colony constructed of used tires and concrete. Beautiful, isn't it? Well maybe not so beautiful at first, but surely it will improve with age! The Tire Ranch!! Its raison d'etre will be to provide a guaranteed free dwelling space for Survivors who are in need of a place to call home, or maybe just a place to party & crash for a while. The Tire Ranch will offer a sanctuary for survivors.

As for locations, I've considered Alaska, the Mojavé Desert or maybe some pretty little 'uncharted' island somewhere.

Once the initial framework is expanded upon, the Tire Ranch will become quite a place indeed! However, our residents will not be permitted to just sit around all day either! You'll only get out of it what you put into it! There is no doubt that you will feel like shit about yourself if you don't work every day for the better of the Tire Ranch! We will do what we can to provide food, clothing, drugs, music, beds, showers, wireless internet, dune buggies or snow mobiles, sex toys, guitars, drums, guns & all of the other necessities! We will do our best to see to it that we accommodate everyone involved, on that you have my word!

http://www.dennisweaver.com/habitat.html
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2007, 01:56:39 PM »
the problem is parents and kids will never agree on what the term "abuse" really means. to program parents and staff, abuse is treatment. that is why this argument is ultimately circular in the end. yes everyone agrees abuse is bad, the problem is that they don't consider the things that survivors report to be abuse, or dismiss it as isolated, or manipulation. it's a no win situation with these people. well.. they win, their kid doesn't.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2007, 02:25:34 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
the problem is parents and kids will never agree on what the term "abuse" really means. to program parents and staff, abuse is treatment. that is why this argument is ultimately circular in the end. yes everyone agrees abuse is bad, the problem is that they don't consider the things that survivors report to be abuse, or dismiss it as isolated, or manipulation. it's a no win situation with these people. well.. they win, their kid doesn't.


Im not just pissed off because I felt abused in the Straightlike program.
If I had seen inside the program,but was never placed there or threatened to be placed there,I would still think its over the top and a very whacked place.
Very Jim Jonesy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »