Author Topic: Educational Consultants  (Read 9623 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Educational Consultants
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2007, 02:21:57 PM »
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
You mean your parameters.


Well, my original parameters were TBS and wilderness.  We added other parameters per your request and you or anyone are welcome to add names as they become available,  just review the matrix and send the ones along that fit and I will add them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline happyday7

  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
TO : THE WHO
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2007, 02:29:56 PM »
Please do not lump all people that post on Fornits together. There are a lot of us parents out here that have hired ED CONS and been robbed by them making false promises to us about the schools they recommended our children to. Contrary to what you believe "THE WHO", there are honest, loving parents out here that have found out the truth about the lies and deceit that both ED Cons have promised to us and therapeutic schools have promised us. It is all a big $$$ racket. We are telling the truth about what happened to us. ED CONS can recommend whatever school they want, but are they ethical people with families best interests at heart, I think not. I am speaking from my own experience. It is a $$ racket that takes advantage of familes in crisis.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
ET ER DONE

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Educational Consultants
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2007, 02:40:46 PM »
Happyday7 wrote:
Quote
Please do not lump all people that post on Fornits together


Ha,Ha,Ha,…I haven’t seen that posted before.  Sorry, I am laughing because it is actually one of my pet peeves that all schools are lumped together and judged the same way, so I know how you feel, my bad.  Sorry you had a bad experience with your EdCon, I do believe it is a money racket like any other business, but they do provide a service for their time and experience from what I can gather.  Like any other business there are those that prey on people in need and do them wrong and they should be exposed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Educational Consultants
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2007, 02:43:06 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Deborah""
42 deaths between 2000-2004. I don't see them listed.

Exactly the point - why aren't those listed?

send them over, if they fit the parameters I will add them in.


What are the parameters? Please be specific.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Educational Consultants
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2007, 02:47:49 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Deborah""
42 deaths between 2000-2004. I don't see them listed.

Exactly the point - why aren't those listed?

send them over, if they fit the parameters I will add them in.

What are the parameters? Please be specific.

As long as they involve sleeping with journalists, I'm ok with 'em.  :rofl:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Educational Consultants
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2007, 03:03:48 PM »
Quote
What are the parameters? Please be specific.

I am personally tracking TBS and Wilderness safety.  Others here have requested that the matrix be expanded to include other areas so I added them in.  You will see it is by location and date.  The specific parameters are as follows:

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=258472#258472
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Educational Consultants
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2007, 10:35:00 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote
What are the parameters? Please be specific.
I am personally tracking TBS and Wilderness safety.  Others here have requested that the matrix be expanded to include other areas so I added them in.  You will see it is by location and date.  The specific parameters are as follows:

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=258472#258472


How about if you go to the ISAC web site ( http://isaccorp.org/ ) and include some of those statistics? While you're at it, make sure you update your "statistics" to include the deaths, injuries, and assualts from the past few years. Your statistics aren't looking quote so rosey now, are they?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Educational Consultants
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2007, 01:20:27 AM »
There is no "we". Who likes to give the impression that he's someone important and there's more than he and the multiple personalities in his head. He's not serious about this little 'project' of his. The deaths are listed on multiple websites. The research has already been done by myself and others. All he has to do is input it into his little charts.
He's an industry 'spinner'. He'd have the accurate data in his charts if he were really serious.
Where's the chart for heinous physical abuses, avoidable accidents, injuries requiring corrective surgery, sexual abuse by staff, hazing? Put kids in a hotbed of "bait and punish" and hazing increases exponentially. My son was never hazed until he encountered the "parent-choice" private prison industry. He never used flonase or claritin until he endured months on end of the white bread and american cheese diet for ridiculous violations of the "agreements". Uh huh, that's some 'therapy' right there.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Statistics and Research Class
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2007, 01:27:14 AM »
Are you suggesting that the statistics provided on a site with an obvious agenda are more reliable than those provided by the CDC and the National Center for Educational Statistics?   Anyone who has taken a statistics or research course can tell you that this information can be manipulated to fit your cause if you are seeking to influence rather than measure or report information.  Now, who has a greater motivation to manipulate data the CDC, NCES or or your beloved site listed above?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Statistics and Research Class
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2007, 10:31:43 AM »
Quote from: ""Johnny Ringo""
Are you suggesting that the statistics provided on a site with an obvious agenda are more reliable than those provided by the CDC and the National Center for Educational Statistics?   Anyone who has taken a statistics or research course can tell you that this information can be manipulated to fit your cause if you are seeking to influence rather than measure or report information.  Now, who has a greater motivation to manipulate data the CDC, NCES or or your beloved site listed above?


Well, Asswipe, if you had read this thread correctly those are TheWho's statistics - not ours. This is HIS research and those are HIS statistics based on HIS data collection, which HE has compared to the CDC and NCES. But thank you for proving our point that HIS "statistics" are bogus and worthless.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Educational Consultants
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2007, 10:35:38 AM »
Oh, and if you're referring to the ISAC web site please take the time to look at the web site; There aren't statistics on there - their information regarding deaths and abuses is based on actual incidents that have been documented and are in the national media.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline along comes mary

  • Posts: 46
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Educational Consultants
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2007, 05:38:38 AM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
From the research I did today I couldn’t find any requirements saying EdCons cannot recommend schools which provide therapy.  It seems to be within their theater of work.  I suspect fornits people feel it isn’t right because they don’t want anyone to be recommended to a TBS or wilderness program.  But it seems the EdCons are doing their job from what I can see unless someone has more information that I overlooked.


Seriously?

You think the problem anyone has with Ed Cons is because they really just don't want ANYONE to be referred to ANY TBS or wilderness EVER?
Thats quite an agenda...

It couldn't POSSIBLY be that the posters here had a personal experience with an Ed Con and /or the specific program said Ed Con referred them (or their child) to that was less than satisfactory?

And, as to the spectrum of an Ed Con's "theater of work" ... you should probably check out the thread on ODD.

I know, irrefutably, that at least a few Ed Cons are "acknowledged" by certain schools, including HLA, for their referrals.

If these people, who are just "doing their job", accept under-the-table commissions from these programs, or "bonus fees" that confused families are strongly "encouraged" to give them BY the programs, then does that not constitute an ITSY BITSY conflict of interest?

Is that not a bit different than just "doing their jobs"?

Is that not a bit more akin to abusing the trust put in them by distraught families, lining their pockets with extra cash from "appreciative" programs, and even intentionally referring children to programs that aren't appropriate for them if those particular programs are more "appreciative"  than the other, more apropos placements?

It happens.

I don't know how extensive your "research" on Ed Cons was, but to suggest that they are all wholesome persons practicing an entirely wholesome profession based on.... your day's research(??!)... and then propose the idea that "fornits people" are not against the Ed Cons THEMSELVES, but are against each and every non-traditional program into which these "professionals" refer their clients, is ignorant and more than a little presumptuous.

I hope you are not in the business of solving crimes, because your "suspicions" fall FAR short of the truth and are entirely devoid of insight.

(I apologize if I sound overly harsh... but your blanket statements had to be called on their inaccuracy. However, I will say in your defense that it is extremely unlikely that any Ed Con or program's website would include any of the corrupt and (at least potentially) illegal activities they might engage in. If you know the truth about these kickbacks and such, than its probably because you've personally dealt with one of these profiteering Ed Cons, you are affiliated with a program who "buys" them, or you are one yourself. Additionally, I feel the need to acknowledge that there MUST be some Educational Consultants who ARE honest and "doing their job" with integrity. The last thing I want to do is make my own blanket statements condemning all Ed Cons...)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
And then along comes Mary
And does she want to set them free, and let them see reality
From where she got her name
And will they struggle much, when told that such a tender touch of hers
Will make them not the same

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Educational Consultants
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2007, 08:37:19 AM »
Quote
You think the problem anyone has with Ed Cons is because they really just don't want ANYONE to be referred to ANY TBS or wilderness EVER?
Thats quite an agenda...

You made some good points, ACM, Guess I broke one of my own rules(beliefs).  I am not a big believer in absolutes and don’t like blanket statements either.  Seems EdCons take a big hit from everyone here…it was mentioned that they shouldn’t be referring to TBS’s and I couldn’t find anything to back that up…that they should meet the children in person before referring them to a school etc.  No one could point me towards where that is stated or defined and it didn’t become apparent during my few hours of research (not very in-depth, I agree), so I made a poorly supported conclusion.
EdCons are  in the business to make money, like everyone else, and I can see that there could be a conflict with incentives that could tip the scales towards one school or another or to a placement  that the child doesn’t even need.  There may be more corrupt ones than good ones, I don’t know.  I am not an EdCon nor have I ever used one.
I will take a back seat to this issue and read more from parents and students before giving my opinion on this subject again....sorry.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Educational Consultants
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2007, 08:56:27 AM »
When I decided to withdraw my 16 year old from HLA this year I hired an educational consultant-Nancy Burton in Georgia to meet with my 16 year old and help with homeward bound process and to get the transcripts out of HLA. She requested a lot of information and met with me and my child for 90 minutes before making any placement recommendations. She looked at all the progress reports from HLA and talked to her counselors before making a recommendation. The day I withdrew her, we sat together in Dahlonega and talked about coming home and placement in two other boarding schools. I asked her how she selected the schools: one she visited in Utah (Discovery Ranch) had an excellent reputation and another in Vermont (King George Academy) was recommended by the association of educational consultants. We decided to bring my daughter home and she wrote the home contract WITH my daughter to go to a local private school. I must say she did an excellent job and my daughter has been successful in the transition.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Oz girl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1459
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Educational Consultants
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2007, 09:25:04 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Oh, and if you're referring to the ISAC web site please take the time to look at the web site; There aren't statistics on there - their information regarding deaths and abuses is based on actual incidents that have been documented and are in the national media.


Perhaps you could provide some statistics which show how many parents have sued a non therapeutic American boarding school for neglect or abuse in  the last 20 yrs. Or give some numbers on how many kids have died or been grieviously injured at summer camp?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen