Author Topic: A Few Websites To Read Other's Thoughts on Teen Challenge  (Read 14941 times)

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Offline Karly

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A Few Websites To Read Other's Thoughts on Teen Challenge
« on: May 06, 2007, 08:01:49 PM »
To learn more about Teen Challenge, I highly recommend paying a visit to the following websites:

"Investigating Teen Challenge"- at http://http://teenchallengecult.blogspot.com/

"Investigating Teen Challenge" Web Forum at- http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewforum.php?f=57, which is now proudly hosted on Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora Forum (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/index.php), which covers many of the Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform facilities! (This is the website you're on right now! :D )

"Teen Challenge Exposed" at- http://http://www.teenchallengeexposed.com/

A very active thread about Teen Challenge at-  http://http://www.topix.net/forum/city/minneapolis-mn/TN94VATH520HE9UQM#lastPost

Another thread on Teen Challenge at- http://http://www.topix.net/forum/blogs/TEV4TDE8D9LDKTISS

A Thread at The Bismarck Tribune - http://http://www.bismarcktribune.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=33

Many more opinions about Teen Challenge can be found here-  http://http://www.badsamaritan.com/archives/2001/10/the_teen_challenge_lady.php

Returning to Sanity - http://http://www.exchristian.net/testimonies/2006/02/returning-to-sanity.html

NEW: A new thread about Teen Challenge called- 'Subsidized Religion in MA' at Aces Full of Links- http://http://www.drmomentum.com/aces/archives/002976.html

NEW: The Texas Faith-Based Initiative at Five Years: Warning Signs as President Bush Expands Texas-style Program at National Level-http://http://www.tfn.org/files/fck/TFN%20CC%20REPORT-FINAL.pdf

(Note: If you cannot open the above pdf file, you can download the "Foxit Reader", which is a free PDF document viewer and printer.  http://http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/rd_intro.php)

NEW: To learn more about the the faith-based initiative, go to Americans United for Separation of Church and State website- "The 'Faith-Based' Initiative- Churches, Social Services & Your Tax Dollars" http://http://www.au.org/site/News2?abbr=resources&page=NewsArticle&id=9051&security=1441&news_iv_ctrl=2422

NEW: Charitable Choice, Faith-Based Partnerships, and the Public Funding Of Religion- http://http://www.atheists.org/public.square/charitablechoice.html

NEW: A STARK TRUTH FOR POLICY MAKERS: DATA LACKING TO SUPPORT CLAIMS OF FAITH-BASED SOCIAL PROGRAM SUCCESS-http://http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/faith14.htm

NEW: Faith Without Works-http://http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0410.sullivan.html

I am also posting the following web forum just in case someone feels it would suit them- , the Ex-Pentecostal Forum - http://http://p212.ezboard.com/bexpentecostalforums  

Note: You can read more about the Ex-Pentecostal Forum at the Association of Former Pentecostals - http://http://expentecostals.org/index.htm

ANOTHER OTHER GOOD READ:

JESUS ‘LOVE-BOMBS' YOU - By Chris Hedges. http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/jesus_love_bombs_you/
« Last Edit: May 20, 2007, 07:14:44 PM by Guest »

Offline Firebird81

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A Few Websites To Read Other's Thoughts on Teen Challenge
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2007, 10:18:36 AM »
Yes please go to all of those. You will see a recurring theme. Almost every message board thread has been started by the guy who wrote the website teenchallengeexposed.com. You will see Karly and him on every one of those threads. You will also see various confused people who have been thru TC and successfully completed the program or have a relative who has. Wy are they confused? Because Karly and Michael are making such wild-eyed claims about an organization they know to be an effective one thru personal experience, something Karly does not have concerning Teen Challenge. You will also see Michael make the statement that he would rather live next door to Al Qaeda instead of a pentecostal.

Go to all of her links. You will find more than one that is just simply people against Christianity. and that is simply a case of difference in religious beliefs.

Please research beyond what Karly has tried to lay out before you. She has never been in Teen Challenge, has never seen their curriculum, does not know how the program is even structured or how it works. She couldn't tell you what the courses cover or what methods of counselling are used. The truth is she is someone who doesn't believe in residential drug treatment and tha tis what is driving her attacks against Teen Challenge.
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Offline Antigen

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A Few Websites To Read Other's Thoughts on Teen Challenge
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2007, 12:46:46 PM »
Firebird, STFU you pompous ass! Do you have any idea how insulting you are? Don't worry, we can think for ourselves, thanks very much!

And here's a little history for ya. Not too long ago at all, nobody but program vets and cult members knew anything at all about Straight, Inc. Even though they'd been sued numerous times and were constantly under investigation. Hell Arnold Trebach even dedicated a chapter in his early `80's book, The Great Drug War to Fred Collins trip through the program. Even so, if you asked around in 1999, very, very few people knew anything about the Program. It was just Scott Wagner with his one AOL page, then me and Wes and Kathy with the forum on CoolBoards. Don Smith played the role you're now playing. He's still the admin on the Yahoo group; Straight Inc Alumni. But, as it turns out, there were no thousands of proud happy super Straightlings to come tell us all what for.

It has to start somewhere. It's kind of amusing, though, watching you try to ply the same tactics here in the open wilds of Cyberia that worked so damned well for you on captives who didn't dare tell you just how fuckin nuts you are. See, you can't send me to prison or otherwise punish me so it won't work. But good luck with that!
 :rofl:
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Offline Firebird81

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A Few Websites To Read Other's Thoughts on Teen Challenge
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2007, 01:23:50 PM »
Antigen's ghost--calm down. You really are losing it. I've been reading your responses to my response from a request by someone her eabout how tc works. My post and most others like it have done nothing more than either explain the Teen Challenge progam or challenge you and Karly's erroneous beliefs about it. I have not stooped to the insults that you have from the very first moment.

Your problem with Teen Challenge is based on complete ignorance of Teen Challenge. I will be here to continue to expose your falsehoods. I encourage everyone who comes to this site to thoroughly research any organization they wish to enter or refer a loved one to. By the way, you can order all of teh Teen Challenge curriculum and see for yourself what it's about. They used to charge about $10 a book. So once again, here i am, encouraging YOU and KARLY to actually research and learn about something before forming an opinion and prosyletizing others to your own twisted, uninformed viewpoint.
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Offline Firebird81

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A Few Websites To Read Other's Thoughts on Teen Challenge
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2007, 01:40:03 PM »
Also, Antigen's Ghost, what do you think is an effective way to help people cure their drug addiction? I've been browsing your site and see nothing that offers alternate solutions to helping addicts. What I see see is a general position that all residential rehabs are cults or cult-like---largely because they are reisdential and have rules. So, the military is also a cult, then......
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Offline Antigen

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A Few Websites To Read Other's Thoughts on Teen Challenge
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2007, 02:19:45 PM »
Aw, thanks for your concern. But really, I'm fine. Not losing it at all. Actually just sort of enjoying another beautiful Spring day and trying to nail down a paying gig or three before I go play for a couple of days.

You're right. I'm almost completely ignorant of TC, except for the obvious cultish bullshit that anyone can see and having had a couple of friends over the years who either went through it or have friends and loved ones who have. It would be rather silly of me to waste my time and money "researching" an organization by buying their own propaganda, wouldn't it? No, I've found it works a whole lot better to just be patient and ask around till a fair number of people who have actually had some dealings with the organization have had a chance to tell their stories, compare notes and come to some understanding with one another about just what manner of beast chewed them up and spit them out. You'll get there. Don't worry! Just keep on going....  :rofl:

Quote
The truth is she is someone who doesn't believe in residential drug treatment and tha tis what is driving her attacks against Teen Challenge.


Except for Delancy Street. I find that rather odd. I don't know a whole lot about DS either, as ppl just haven't chattered that much about it. But I expect we'll be finding out more about it as time goes on. All the best to ya! Oh, btw, while we're all making friends and getting to know one another I wouldn't want you to feel left out. Here are a list of names of people like minded to you who have posted to this site and who you might look up and make some friends too.

The Seed:
John Underwood
Thom (aka Arrogant Bastard... my brother, btw)
Ft. Lauderdale (everybody knows who this is, but we're not supposed to speak his name... starts with a T)

Abundant Life Academy:
Craig Rogers

Oh, well, that's about all I have time to think about right now. Maybe somebody else can suggest a few friends for you so you won't be so all alone at this party.
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Offline hanzomon4

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A Few Websites To Read Other's Thoughts on Teen Challenge
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2007, 02:22:27 PM »
Quote from: ""Firebird81""
Also, Antigen's Ghost, what do you think is an effective way to help people cure their drug addiction? I've been browsing your site and see nothing that offers alternate solutions to helping addicts. What I see see is a general position that all residential rehabs are cults or cult-like---largely because they are reisdential and have rules. So, the military is also a cult, then......


No, most programs that operate share a bloodline that leads back to Synanon. Synanon is a cult and most programs conform to a few if not all of the tactic types of thought reform. Whether you see it are not TC has a lot of power over their wards and it appears that TC's main goal is to gain more followers(proselytize?). The question becomes is this about religion or rehab. In the questions I asked about the program you never said anything about providing medical care for addicts withdrawal symptoms. The power balance between the program and the court appointed clients is troubling because it takes treatment and turns it into a convert or go to jail situation.

There's nothing wrong with a Christian run rehab but the priority must be given to rehabilitation which must be based on science. Faith can be incorporated, and included but in no way does it replace science in regards to rehabilitation. The information you've given us reads like a policy manual. I have read many policy manuals and what actually goes on in program is usually quiet different.

When I have time I'll ask more questions.....
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Offline Firebird81

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A Few Websites To Read Other's Thoughts on Teen Challenge
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2007, 02:45:59 PM »
Quote
No, most programs that operate share a bloodline that leads back to Synanon. Synanon is a cult and most programs conform to a few if not all of the tactic types of thought reform.
But Teen Challenge was around BEFORE Synanon and started over 3000 miles away in the projects of Spanish harlem. It is not based on any model that aims to tear the individual down and then rebuild them into anything. It is based solely on introducing people to the Christian life and discipling them.

Quote
The question becomes is this about religion or rehab.
Well, now THAT'S a great question! And the answer is this--both. Teen Challenge was founded on the belief of the restorative power of Jesus Christ. They believe He is the great healer and free someone from the bonds of addiction. They also believe in the great commission, where Christ told his disciples to go into the world and preach the Word, reaching out to others---yes, prosyletizing. But will you give me that prosyletizing is pretty much a common practice thruout Christianity? The program curriculum is based on applying Biblical principles to to help overcome life's problems and daily struggles. So, yeah, it's about both.


 
Quote
In the questions I asked about the program you never said anything about providing medical care for addicts withdrawal symptoms.
No medical care is provided for withdrawal. Speed freaks and crackheads tend to sleep it off for a couple days, while heroin an barbiturate addicts have to go thru full withdrawal and TC will make them do it cold turkey if they do so in the facility. Someone is usually assigned to provide whatever assistance they need and most centers will hook them up with the chocolate fix (sweets tend to help take the edge off). Obviously sometimes a heroin withdrawal can be life threatening, so an addict tha thasn't kicked before and has been using large amounts would be better served going into detox first.

 
Quote
The power balance between the program and the court appointed clients is troubling because it takes treatment and turns it into a convert or go to jail situation.
This is a recurring concern, and I DO see the potential for abuse of said power, but in all my years with TC I never saw more than 10% of students in the entire program who were court ordered. Most TC students are genuinely seeking help from addiction. And I can also say with full certainty tha tit is not a policy of Ten Challenge to hold jail sentences over the heads of any student. That doesn't mean that some hot-headed staff member hasn't shot his dumb mouth off, but it's not a part of the program and is not supposed to happen.

There's nothing wrong with a Christian run rehab but the priority must be given to rehabilitation which must be based on science. Faith can be incorporated, and included but in no way does it replace science in regards to rehabilitation. The information you've given us reads like a policy manual. I have read many policy manuals and what actually goes on in program is usually quiet different.

When I have time I'll ask more questions.....[/quote]
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Offline Firebird81

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A Few Websites To Read Other's Thoughts on Teen Challenge
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2007, 03:06:09 PM »
Quote
No, I've found it works a whole lot better to just be patient and ask around till a fair number of people who have actually had some dealings with the organization have had a chance to tell their stories, compare notes and come to some understanding with one another about just what manner of beast chewed them up and spit them out. You'll get there. Don't worry! Just keep on going....  :rofl:
Fair enough, and I will point to the very topics Karly keeps pointing everyone to. There are a few who complain in those topics and quite a few more praise what TC has done for them or a family member. I have no doubt whatsoever that will continue play out in that manner.

Quote
Except for Delancy Street. I find that rather odd. I don't know a whole lot about DS either, as ppl just haven't chattered that much about it. But I expect we'll be finding out more about it as time goes on.
Delancey street seems to be very politically connected in San Francisco. What little I have been able find out suggests that they are similar to Phoenix house. But then again, that's going more on a couple of internet postings.


 
Quote
All the best to ya! Oh, btw, while we're all making friends and getting to know one another I wouldn't want you to feel left out. Here are a list of names of people like minded to you who have posted to this site and who you might look up and make some friends too.

The Seed:
John Underwood
Thom (aka Arrogant Bastard... my brother, btw)
Ft. Lauderdale (everybody knows who this is, but we're not supposed to speak his name... starts with a T)

Abundant Life Academy:
Craig Rogers

Oh, well, that's about all I have time to think about right now. Maybe somebody else can suggest a few friends for you so you won't be so all alone at this party.


I am here for one reason. The truth is, Michael, KArly and anyone on this site who espouse their position are not going to hurt Teen Challenge. It is too large, too old and has far too many success stories. It has been openly endorsed by 4 sitting Presidents, countless Governors, mayors, congress members from both parties, celebritiess and community leaders. I am not here to protect Teen Challenge.

My concern is that people looking for help may be naively turned away from a great program that can offer help and has to so many people. Drug addiction is a plague of the worst kind to thhose who must endure it. It's one thing to warn people of an abusive organization. But in the case of TC, that is not an accurate portrayal.

In any event enjoy t he Spring day. Summe ris coming and it's gonna be hot and sweaty out here.
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Offline Antigen

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A Few Websites To Read Other's Thoughts on Teen Challenge
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2007, 04:05:51 PM »
Man, nothing like a walk on a beautiful spring day! Dawg killed and burried a groundhog way down on a steepish part of riverbank. She's the proudest! I'm feeling much better now too.

Quote
My concern is that people looking for help may be naively turned away from a great program that can offer help and has to so many people. Drug addiction is a plague of the worst kind to thhose who must endure it. It's one thing to warn people of an abusive organization. But in the case of TC, that is not an accurate portrayal.


Dude, I believe you believe what you're saying, but that's the basis for every single Synanon/Oxford type cult scapegoats and dehumanizes their critics. When my brother let me stay with his family till I was legally free of Straight, my mother described it as the time Jim tried to kill Ginger. She was completely serious! Hysterical. And I've stood so accused by a long line of combative Stepcraft practitioners and other people who put way too much stock in advice from their invisible friends.

It's ok to have an invisible friend if you want. But it's important to remember humility--that your idea of the nature and intent of your invisible friend is mostly the product of your imagination even if the invisible friend itself does turn out to be real as anything on judgement day, your imagination can rather often be inaccurate.

That's the first trouble with coercive rehab. To put it in pschrink-speak, a therapeutic relationship must rest on trust. Coercion destroys trust. Therefore there is no such thing as coerced therapy.

In the words of a poet, coerced therapy is about like coerced intimacy. There's a word for it. It's a felony.

In practical terms, you could go your whole life brutally traumatizing vulnerable people and never even know you're a monster. All you have to do is dismiss and discredit anybody who tries to present evidence of it to you.

The second trouble with the entire idea is the very basis of it's stated mission. Forced treatment seeks to "cure" the "disease" of addiction. But addiction is not a disease. That was just some bullshit Bill Wilson and his drinkin and skirt chasing club came up with, probably more to hook into the popularity of patent medicines and treatments at the time than any other reason. Remember that this cult got it's start during the daze of L. Ron Hubbard, the Chittaquas, spas and Dr. Linda Hazzard's miraculous starvation cure.

If anybody wants good advice and a broad range of strategies to best deal with a dope habit, you could do worse than to ask RTP2003 or others you find around here or look into Maia Szalavitz's book,  Recovery Options: The Complete Guide.  There are also groups like rational recovery and temperance (not abstinance) movements here and there. If you look hard enough, you'll find a very broad range going back as far as hairless monkeys like us started scratching figures on rocks. This is not a horrifying plague that threatens to destroy all of civilization. Morbid or even just troublesome addiction usually effects somewhere between 1% and 4 or 5% of any given population. The only correlation we know of is stress level. Even water buffalo in Vietnam would chow down on the wild hemp when the shelling started then go back to their usual water fare soon after it stopped.

Right now, in modern day America, we're right at about %3, which is right where we started prior to the Harrison Narcotics Act.

But my biggest trouble with forced treatment is that, in this case, it is forced upon us by our government through grant funding, judicial mandate and free-handed spending on propaganda. "Our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer."
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Offline BuzzKill

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A Few Websites To Read Other's Thoughts on Teen Challenge
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2007, 06:24:18 PM »
Hey Ginger - give Fido a pat and a scratch for me ;)

Thought this might add some levity to the discussion

A Dog Joke

A Baptist preacher and his wife decided to get a dog. Ever mindful of the congregation, they knew that the dog must be a Baptist.

They visited kennel after kennel and explained their needs. No dog seemd to qualify. Finally, they found a kennel whose owner assured them he had just the dog they wanted.

The owner brought the dog to meet the pastor and his wife.

"Fetch the Bible," he commanded.

The dog bounded to the bookshelf, scrutinized the books, located the Bible, and brought it to the owner.

"Now find Psalm 23," he commanded.

The dog dropped the Bible to the floor, and showing marvellous dexterity with his nose, leafed through and finding the correct passage, pointed to it with his paw.

The pastor and his wife were very impressed and purchased the dog.

That evening, a group of church members came to visit. The pastor and his wife began to show off the dog, having him locate several Bible verses...

The visitors were very impressed.

One man asked, "Dose he do regular dog tricks, too?"

"I haven't tried yet" the pastor replied.

Pointing his finger at the dog "HEEL," the pastor commanded.

The dog  jumped on a chair, placed one paw on the pastor's forehead and began to howl.

The good pastor, looking shocked, then exclaimed,  "Good Lord! He's Pentecostal!"

:o


Firebird - I do think you'd understand better where the people here are coming from. if you would do some reading into the history of substance abuse  programs; and the very serious and consistent reports of abuse that arise from these places.

I am sure you are puzzled by TC being suspected of cultic behavior - but if you had a wider frame of reference I think you would understand. You might not agree that TC dose behave like a cult - but you'd have to admit many "Christian" groups do; and most of the involentary substance abuse programs meet the qualifications of being a cult.
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Offline Firebird81

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A Few Websites To Read Other's Thoughts on Teen Challenge
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2007, 11:13:40 PM »
Here is a link to a Teen Challenge FAQ available on the website of the Rehresburg, Pennsylvania facility. Rehresberg is the central TC facility in the country. It is where most people on the east coast will probably find themselves for the phase 3 of the Teen Challenge program. It answers someof the questions some of you have.
http://www.teenchallengetc.com/resource ... tm#Scene_1

Buzzkill, I understand where you're coming from. In fact, I can't say I've seen anything in any of your posts I would disagree with. See, I believe that some of the ones here who would call TC a cult use the synanon model as a comparison and in their minds they read everything I write with that preconception in mind.

When I was trying to decide what program was best for me, I was seeking advice from my parole officer. He was a big fan of the Phoenix House--which is a Synanon based program. In fact Phoenix House had come to interview me over a year before when I was facing my third state prison sentence and was hoping to get in a program ( of course, the state parole board ruled that out in very heated morrissey hearing).

I already knew Phoenix House's reputation as a tough, hardcore program, but the interviewer wanted to talk about beach trips( later I learned that they get everyone excited for these trips, then cancel at the last minute as some attempt to help them deal with disappointment, bure bs i fyou ask me), their vocational programs--decent careers actually, like offset printing, and the assurance that they wouldn't fail me because they would require me to have my own apartment for a year, be fully employed and have at least $2000 in the bank before I graduated. No mention at all of the hot seat sessions, the degradation techniques meant to break you, like forcing a disobedient student to wear a toilet seat around there head. No mention at all of the first 90 days of the Phoenix House model.

My parole officer, however, had sat on their board before and was a strong advocate. He explained to me the model--the first 90 days was dedicated to completely breaking you down and the following 21 months was dedicated to rebuilding you into a typical briefcase carrying robot model. I interviewed with Phoenix House in Santa Ana and told them about my jail interview. This interview was quite different---The lady would calmly ask me a question about my drug history and every answer I gave would be met with her yelling at me " what's wrong with you" or "when will you learn". She was basically gauging my reactions. My parole officer had told me of this stuff, so I tried my best to answer as humbly as possible and to express my desperation---and I was desperate. I had spent my life abusing every drug imaginable and had become a hype shooting meth in my veins and my mind had long succumbed to speed psychosis. I was very scared that I had gone too far and that my mind may not make it back this time. I was in a very vulnerable state and Phoenix House had the reputation for being extremely successful for those who actually finish it. I was also uneasy by a program that I felt would try to rob me of my identity. I also worried that I wouldn't be able to make it thru that first 90 days without stringing a staffmember up by their nuts--I was an ex-con who had committed all sorts of violence and had a fairly uncontrollable temper.

The tale of how I found out about Teen Challenge was quite interesting and would amaze most Christians at God's power, but the average person here would doubt it, call me a liar and laugh. But let me just leave it with this--there was about a 30 day period where it seemed there was a conspiracy coming at me from all different angles pointing me toward Teen Challenge. So while I was waiting for Phoenix House to call back, I went to a Turning Point meeting, This is where TC usually conducts interviews.

 I sat thru a Bible study and was pretty impressed with this guy conducting it. He was just this friendly guy who told us about how God had changed him from his former life of addiction. Afterwards I asked to be interviewed and he explained ot me what Teen Challenge was about. He pulled no punches on what they expected and gave me an application as well as a full physical form to be signed by a doctor before I could be admitted. To make a long story short I chose Teen Challenge.

My experience at Teen Challenge was nothing like what the Phoenix House would have been. There was no tearing me down model and rebuilding me. There was no group therapy session where everyone would tear into me. Counselling was one on one and only used to gauge my progress and help me thru any struggles I was having ( at my request). This progam was not centered around a model of counselling. From the get-go it was about Discipleship in the Christian faith. Picture daily Sunday School and you'll get the idea.

Staff members eschewed the role model philosophy of Synanon as well, telling the students not to follow them, but to follow God, because they would most assuredly let you down. This was a very common TC theme thruout Teen Challenge. Oh I came across staff members and especially interns who were hot-headed. Never once did I ever in over 7 years involvement see a staffmember threaten violence or act in a threatening manner to a student, tho. That is grounds for dismissal and in another discussion i asked Michael Kincheloe aboout some of the charges he made regarding that and whether or not he reported the staffmember for threatening him and he refused to answer the question--puzzling since every student in TC knows that such behaior by staff is unacceptable.

Teen Challenge did not try to turn me into a robot like Phoenix House felt like it would. Teen Challenge did not degrade or use any abusive techniques to rehabilitate me. As someone who went thru extensive staff training and served as staff for 5 years, I can tell you that kind of stuff is strictly frowned on. Teen Challenge did not self-aggrandize, there were no instances i nall of my years with TC where they tried to convince people that TC was the only chance they had--TC instead puts that responsibility on God's shoulders. TC does not encourage people to stay indefinitely and join their communal fellowship. They encourage people to get out of the progam and get involve din theor local churches and live productive lives. There is a big focus on following God's call on your life, but they do not attempt to tell you what God is calling you to do. They leave that between you and God. Their concern is simply that you follow His desire for your life.
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Offline Karly

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A Few Websites To Read Other's Thoughts on Teen Challenge
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2007, 01:05:03 AM »
Firebird-  Maybe you have had certain experiences like you say, but the fact of the matter is that there are ALOT of people out there who have had some VERY bad experiences at Teen Challenge!  That is why I have started the Investigating Teen Challenge website.  

It is also a FACT that the VERY high drop-out rate for Teen Challenge is tremendous and it is ALSO a FACT that Teen Challenge is bragging about statistics that are from 1975, which was 32 years ago!  Those statistics were done on Teen Challenge graduates from 1968, which was  39 years ago!!!  Out of those 186 people, a total of 143 people dropped out of the Teen Challenge program!!!  Read:  http://http://teenchallengecult.blogspot.com/2007/02/teen-challenge-success-rates-are-from.html

Another problem (which is just one of the MANY problems that I have with Teen Challenge) is that each and every person who is an advocate for Teen Challenge (including each and every single Teen Challenge website) gives me the exact same biased information/story.  You all seem to be identical clones of one another and that not only creeps me out but it also spooks the heck out of ALOT of people!  Maybe you can't see that you do that, but everyone who has been reading your posts can see that!  And, I will be the first to say- I feel sorry for you!  Hopefully someday you will be able to step back and realize that all is not what it appears in the Teen Challenge world!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Michael Kincheloe

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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2007, 01:39:42 AM »
They all follow the same talking points. Mr. Dau is no exception.

In the February 14, 2005 issue of Dissident Voice, journalist Amy Sullivan wrote in "Faith, Fabrications, and Fantasy" that "Teen Challenge's much ballyhooed 86 percent rehabilitation rate falls apart under examination -- the number doesn't include those who dropped out of Teen Challenge and relies on a disturbingly small sample of those graduates who self-reported whether they had remained sober, significantly tilting the results."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Karly

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« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2007, 05:26:08 PM »
Who is Mr. Dau?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »