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Offline Firebird81

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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2007, 12:18:36 PM »
Ok, dealing with someof the other questions posed here:

students leaving TC: no one is held against their will. If a student says he wants to leave, then he leaves. Teen Challenge does not want people in the program who do not want to be there---those people do nothing but cause problems for the ones who DO. Many centers will immediately take a student to the bus stop, because we have had many instances where once they decide to leave they begin to become belligerant, some have walked off premises and come back with a bottle of booze, all kinds of problems. It is for the safety of the other students that this policy is typically upheld.

court ordered students: Teen Challenge at times receives students who have been sentenced to drug diversion rather than going to jail. In order for this to happen a potential student has to request TC specifically, jus tlike many other non-state run facilities. That person is interviewed in jail, if they are locked up, by one of our staff. If we accepted them then a letter of acceptance woul dbe sent to the court. If a judge required, a staffmember would show up and answer questions, but TC is pretty well known in the legal system, and held in general high regard. If that person leaves teh program TC is REQUIRED to report that immediately to the court or probation dept. If it is a case of a bad fit for someone who wants to change, like the poor Jewish kid I intervied and brought in who had no intention of becoming a Christian, then while TC is required to report that they have left, we oftentimes would also send a letter explaining the situation. Oftentimes, however, inmates are just trying to stay out of jail and when they find that rehab is harder than jail they decide to leave and with no small exhibition either. I repeat--TC would not try to keep that person, because they present a problem for those who are there to change.

Brenda--this is a lady who is posting that she ahd to hire an attorney to get her son out of TC. He was a court commital. What she should be telling people is that the attorney didn't have to fight to get the kid out of the program, but instead had to go to court to convince the judge that the kid should be put in another program because he ahd left riverside teen challenge and was therefore in violation of a court order.  Once again, TC is REQUIRED to report when a court ordered student leaves the program.

Tongues: or the baptism of the holy spirit---A little history is in order here. When David Wilkerson started TC in New York he didn't know anything about rehab. Honestly back then no one did. Sociologists and psychologists had all pretty much agreed that once you were a heroin addict you were for life and there was no way to ever get clean. Anyway, David's method was basically the same he had always used as a pastor with normal people. Lead them to Christ and disciple them, or teach them how to live as a Christian. That was it and he had good success at it, but he noticed over the first year that some people would drop out even tho they desperately wanted help and would return to drugs. SO he asked some of the students who had been successful what they felt it was that had enabled them to stay. Overwhelmingly they told him that is was when they were baptised in the holy spirit. And it made sense to him.

All Christians believe that being baptised in the holy spirit is God empowering you for service to Him. Most denominations believe that this happens at salvation. Pentecostals, however, believe it is a separate experience ( based on a passage in Acts) and that the initial evidence is that one will speak in tongues. So, David started promoting this because he believed it would help keep the kids clean.

TC is a home mission of the Assemblies of God, one of the oldest Pentecostal denominations, and the largest, I believe. However....It was decided by TC leadership and AG leadership that officially TC should remain a non-denominational organization while still adhering to AG's pentecostal beliefs. The reason for this was that many different denominations, many non-pentecostal, were avid supporters and sent people into the program. It was decided that saving people was more importnat than ostracizing Baptists and Lutherans and others who had family members who needed help.

Because there are people from different denominations of the Christian faith in TC ( I was raised Southern Baptist), TC openly endorses what they feel is an empowerment of the individual but they do not force individuals participate nor are individuals ostracized for not doing so. Also, I have never seen a TC where some of the more flamboyant pentecostal practices occur. Although, someof the churches we visited may be like that. AG typically does not go for the walk on the pew, do the fish, holy orgasms you see in some other pentecostal churches ( brownsville being the notable exception).

Please feel free to voice any concerns or questions you have. For the record I left TC nearly 7 years ago, actually somewhat angry (we'll discuss that as well if you want) and am not affiliated with nor have I even talked to any of them in years. I do however believe in that program and its mission. It saved my life.  What I'm saying is that I will gladly discuss the opens ores as well as teh good of TC. Sores exist, but they do everywhere, and overall I believe TC as an organization is far and above most others.
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Offline hanzomon4

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« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2007, 12:31:19 PM »
Ok...

What about the phases and notification of parents?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

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Offline Firebird81

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« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2007, 12:53:16 PM »
Quote from: "hanzomon4"
Can you give us any input on the phases
Quote
While at the Teen Challenge office Mr. Soemo gave me literature about the organization. Throughout that literature the intent of the organization is made very clear.

Phase I of the five phases of Teen Challenge, according to their literature, is "Basic Confrontational Evangelism."
There are two different things we can mean when discussing phases. One is what you are asking and the other is the 4 phases of the actual residential program. I will deal with yours:

Phase 1: basically, outreach in a word. Scheduled turning point meetings and interviews requested by an individual are one method. TC is also actively involved in various outreach activities with many local churches, like concerts, homeless outreach ( soup kitchens, blankets and clothing,) basically getting out and spreading the gospel to the down and out.

Phase 2: this is induction. Teen Challenge is set up like this: they have induction centers where new students come in and spend 3 months. This is the weeding out phase, basically. People enter rehabs for a variety of reasons, many of which have nothing to do with getting off drugs. This is the time where those who are not serious about change get a chance to count the costs and either get serious or leave. Also, those who are newly cleaned up have entire different needs than those who have been clean a few months. It takes a couple months for certain drugs to quit affecting your reasoning processes. Anyway, those who advance beyond this ar eplaced at a different level and separated so they can focus on the next level of their rehabilitation. These facilities tend to be located in some of the roughest inner city neighborhoods around their area.

Phase 3 would be the 9 month program after induction at one of the larger facilities. These facilities tend to be more remote so that the students can focus on their studies  and counselors can monitor their progress.

Phase 4 would be an internship of 4 months, either with TC or at a local church. At this phase the student is given a limited amount of authority, is put in charge of student in the program to a limited degree as afar as keeping the daily schedule going and making sure rules are adhered to. Interns do not discipline or counsel. They merely report any problems they see and keep the day to schedule moving.

Phase V, which is about re-entry into society revolves is based upon the principle of putting a client in an "established . . .. local Church." That church would apparently meet the doctrinal requirements of Teen Challenge. Your definition here is correct, so I'll leave it. This is after the program is complete, basically. At this point a student has graduated his internship and is off to live his life. Phase 5 is basically goodbye. SOme however do opt to go to TCMI for a year and be trained to either work as staff or in some other innercity ministry.

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Also TC does work in the prison systems, adult and juvenile(Arizona for sure). Questions have been raised regarding TC notification of parents that their child is involved with the program. What are the written rules on this and how does it actually play out in practice?
Unfortunately, in California TC has never succeeded in opening a teen facility, so I don't have a direct answer. Obviously, TC would have to abide by whatever state laws are on the books requiring parental notification. Dealing with minors brings up an entirely new set of problems for obvious reasons, which is one of the reasons TC moved more to dealing with adults. I CAN tell you a couple things, tho, that I think may offer some insight. Teen Challenge is very committed to restoring families broken by drugs or alcohol. In induction the focus is more on separating a person from immediate outside influences, bu tfamily members are always welcomed at church activities and family day is held once a month. At the main program family day is every Sunday and family members also can attend open services on Thursday nights. That being said TC guards it's students against those who contributed to their problem to begin with. By that I mean people who used drugs with them or abused them in any way (as determined by the student, not tc staff, in the case of abuse) Fiances and wives are generally allowed to come, but there has to be an engagement ring on that finger for TC to consider her your fiance. Regular girlfreinds or boyfriends are not allowed visitation, because oftentimes these are people they got in trouble with and have tended to try to pull them right back out. After a few months weekend passes are permitted once a month for a student to go home--wives, relatives or in rare cases members of that student's home church who played an important role in helping them are the only people studetns are allowed to stay with. They can't go hole up in a hotel somehwere,  for obvious reasons. So with that jumble in mind maybe you can ascertain how TC would likely act in a minor situation regarding parental notification.

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Also
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It may be on the first visit or the fifth. The person usually realized that the only true change can come through Christ. They either receive or reject Him. The plan of salvation is explained to them. When possible we direct them to a Church for further follow-up. Others having come to this decision 'I really want help through Christ' we will then represent them in Court."


Yes. I have personally done that. They do not mean they will provide an attorney. They mean that a representative will stand up in court on your behalf and do everything in their power to convince the court that you should be allowed to enter their program. Absolutely.
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Offline hanzomon4

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« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2007, 01:27:39 PM »
Ok, let's go phase by phase starting with 2.

What is provided in this phase? What rules & responsibilities do clients have to abide by? What criteria is used to determine success, Checklist Counselor's whim? How does that affect paroles? What medical care is provided in regards to withdrawal and who(credentials) provides it? Is mail phone contact monitored or censored?

Add whatever details you feel should be added......
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline Firebird81

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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2007, 11:08:59 AM »
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
Ok, let's go phase by phase starting with 2.

What is provided in this phase?
This is induction. The student's day starts with breakfast, then a time for personal devotion, wher students read tehir bibles to themselves for 15 minutes and then they quietly pray for 15 minutes(or sleep as often is the case at his stage.) Once the interns wake them up from their prayer time, they have a morning work call that last about an hour to clean up the dorms, facility and breakfast mess. After work call their is a one hour chapel service--typical church stuff, sing hymns and then a staff member presents a sermon. After a 10 minute break class begins. At this stage class material focuses on personal responsibility, developing healthy personal realtionships, treating others with respect and earning their respect, how to deal with and control anger. Let give a minute to explain this:

Teen Challenge's method of "treatment" is to consider drug addiction a symptom of other problems. To the church they say it's a sin problem, but in the program they take a much more practical approach. What are some of the most common reasons people who try to stay clean fall back into drugs?
Anger--they get frustrated, it overwhelms them and they give up.
Unhealthy personal relationships: every addict can point to that single person who was a bad influence, or at elast the two of them together were bad influences on each other.
personal responsibility: a victim mentality is a very personally destructive one. It keeps a person down, takes their motivation away and leaves them feeling that someone else is keeping them that way. This class teaches how to take responsibility for the decisions you've made and their consequences ( good and bad) and then takes it to the next level of teaching how to take responsibility for your own life, take the reins and control your own destiny( with the help of God, of course)

These classes last 1 to two weeks. Format is a typical classroom setting, where a teacher lectures and then students interact with the teacher--just like school.

That takes us to lunch, after which afternoon work call begins. What happens here varies from center. At LATC many of the oldre students who had been there longer than a month would go to the thrift store and help out. Newer students still facing physical cravings or dependencies would stay at the center and work

Then there is dinner and it varies from night to night. Wednesday they go to a church service, monday the have a nhour of intercessory prayer and then free time. sometimes there is a short studfy hall. If the rec center is open some of the more mature students may be allowed to go out and help the rec center staff, which is a big treat. They end the day with a little quiet time for those who want to pray and then sleep---8 to 9 hours a night.


Quote
What rules & responsibilities do clients have to abide by?
Typical dormitory living rules of course. Students can not go wandering off into the neighborhood, no smoking allowed. Swearing is not allowed. Students are typically segregated and are not allowd to fraternize with the opposite sex at this point---it's not a time to focus on sex or women. This rule actually didn't always exist, but severe dropout rates and a booming Teen Challenge baby population resulted in this approach. Hormones have a way of taking your focus off of recovery. Television is kept to a minimum, mostly news, sports and family-oriented movies. Students have full access to exercise and recreation facilities. stuff like that. Violation ofthe rules gets a write-up and can result in disciplinary action, typically a week of extra work calls while everyone else has free time. Severe violations, like drug use can result in dismissal. This is reviewed per case, tho. Some guys, the fakers, have no remorse and are asked to leave. If it's a case of someone who slipped, then they will be workd with. Transfer to a different center is on option, removal from daily program and placement on a special program where staffmembers can work closely with and monitor teh student is another. It's really on a per case basis.

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What criteria is used to determine success, Checklist Counselor's whim?
Students are reviewed by the staff before advancement to the next phase. The criteria considered are counselling notes from sessions with their advisors, performance in their studies( basically their GPA), disciplinary history, and basic general attitude. A student may be held back two weeks if they are not at the level the staff deems needed for advancement. Conversely if an opening comes up and a student is performing exceptionally well, they may advance as much a month earlier.

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How does that affect paroles?
In a word..it doesn't. Some parole officers require monthly progress reports, some still insist on seeing the student. Now if you mean court ordered students, typically the courts take a hands off approach and just deal with whether or not the student is in the program. Court committals to TC do not make up a very large percentage of students. I had never seen more than one or two at any given time over 5 years as a staff and 2 and 1/2 as a student. That may have changed with California's drug rehab law that requires courts to send first time drug offenders to rehab first, but probably not significantly, simply because it is the student who chooses TC, not the courts.

 
Quote
What medical care is provided in regards to withdrawal and who(credentials) provides it?
TC does not provide medical care. Potential students are required to take a full physical and bring the results before entry. Students who are on a family health plan will keep their insurance info on file in case it is needed. Many TC students have no longer have familial relations by the time they come to TC and those students if they need medical care are sent to local county hospital facilities with a staff member. Family members are allowed to come get students with special needs and take them to a doctor. However, there are students who lie to staff just to get away for a day so proof of a doctor's actual visit is required.

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Is mail phone contact monitored or censored?

phone--no. calls are 15 minutes long to allow others to use the phone. Mail is monitored only so much as who they are sending letters to. TC does not want students communicating with that friend or girlfriend who they were shooting meth with before they came in the program, for obvious reasons. A problem student may actually have his mail monitored more closely, but typically no one reads anyone's mail.

There is another dynamic at work in TC and that is the "as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another" dynamic. Dorm living produces all kinds of entanglements and heads clash on a regular basis. TC staff use this as a teaching opportunity. At no time do they instigate this, but when it happens they use it as an opportunity to teach the students how they should practically apply the principles they have been learning in class. This is actually a large part of the growth process, an unintended one, but one noentheless.

Oh, also, every TC I was ever involved with had weekly staff meetings and either weekly or monthly meetings between the students and the Dean of Men. There was always a suggestion box where students could anonymously express their concerns over certain rules or other concerns. The Dean of Men would meet with the entire student body and go over those suggestions/concerns, explaining why some things are as they are and then implementing some rule changes if a student brings up a good suggestion or point. Staff meetings were similar, but also included any issues with staff treatment of students.
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Offline Karly

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« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2007, 02:12:41 PM »
Firebird- instead of posting your version of what supposedly is 'supposed' to go on at Teen Challenge, read my reply to your topic at http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=259850#259850.
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Offline OverLordd

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« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2007, 08:26:02 PM »
Address the issue of choice and trying to changes other peoples way of life through forceful relationships with God. do you think God wants corerced followers? How do you support your positions theologically? You have to defend your self against a bother in christ now, and quiet honestly, I dont think you met the requirements of christian theology to be a christian.
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our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline Firebird81

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« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2007, 01:12:09 AM »
Teen Challenge does not coerce people into Christianity.
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Offline OverLordd

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« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2007, 09:35:48 AM »
Your a lier. Just because you say it does not make it true. Support your self.
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our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline GregFL

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« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2007, 12:30:33 PM »
I want to take this opportunity to thank you for hosting this website and know you will find much success with it, much as I have in hosting the Seed discussion forum

Teen challenge holds some personal interest for me.  Here is why.

When I was 12, in fifth grade, my father took me and my three sisters to a David Wilkerson 'meeting' in Pensacola florida where Mr. Wilkerson was laying on hands, etc.  Shortly thereafter I got his book, "the cross and the switchblade" and read it at least twice.  It fascinated me by opening up the world of drugs and NYC style gangsters.

If you know me, you know that several years later, at age 14, I entered the seed.

Several years after that, I was the victim of my father and the St Petersburg Florida police co-conspiring to have me brought back under my father's control so he could place me in another program.  I ended up fighting and ultimately prevailing, but what I discovered later was that in all likelyhood I was bound for a teen challenge program somewhere near Jacsonville Florida.  This was back in the mid 70s.

While I never made it there, I have a step sibling that did.  Since I am not close to him, I have no idea what his experience there entailed..but my own research indicates that many Teen challenge locations use synanon based techniques to force christian religion into the minds of young people.  This shit should be illegal.


So, again, I am sure you will find much success with this website.  If you need any assistance, advice...anything...contact me.


GregFL
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Offline Michael Kincheloe

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« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2007, 09:57:56 PM »
force christian religion into the minds of young people
......................................................................................
They threaten you with Jesus as though he were a pit bull on a leash, their own personal pit bull.

If Jesus returned to Earth today and visited the Shafter TC, he'd probably kick John Burns right in the nuts. I'd buy the video.
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Offline nimdA

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« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2007, 07:59:16 PM »
COME on girls keep this discussion going. It is aiming to be the largest farce on fornits this side of the WHO thread.
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am the metal pig.

Offline Karly

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« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2007, 05:16:57 PM »
Well- evidently the fury of the firebird finally ran out of things to say!  Stay tuned though cuz I'm sure there will be more!
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Offline Michael Kincheloe

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« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2007, 05:41:55 PM »
He hasn't been posting on topix, either. Everyone there just ignores him.
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