Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Teen Challenge

Trying to figure out your angle

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BuzzKill:
I've been thinking about this "false voluntary" problem - those ordered into TC if they want to avoid jail. To be honest, until all this came up, I didn't know such a situation existed.

Frankly, I am surprised that it does - b/c of TC's overtly Christian focus. I would think the offenders might be offered something like JADAC or the Morten Center (local drug rehab and treatment center) instead of jail; but I wouldn't think TC would be an option unless the offender requested it b/c of their Christian faith.

OK - clearly I am wrong - just looking at what others are saying about it. But I am surprised. Clearly there are people who felt they were forced into a situation where they and their faith were disrespected. This is not something that should be permitted to continue.

And yet. . .
To order it stopped might deprive men and woman of any choice, and send them to off to jail. Maybe some would prefer jail - but perhaps it is better to have the choice, if one wants it? I mean, its not as if the court is going to say - oh to bad - TC is no longer interested in allowing court ordered placement - so I guess we'll just cut you loose - go on an behave yourself now.  Not gonna happen.

I will go on to say it grieves me to see, yet again, how a good work of God can be twisted by human greed and malice. No one in TC should ever feel despised or rejected or demeaned. If they do, then that facility is not projecting the love of Christ, as they were commissioned to do.  

And BTW: Speaking in toungs is not proof of one's salvation or Born Again status. It is one of many gifts sometimes given to a believer. It is one gift, among many. Paul was clear it was not the only one, and that all were of value.

IMO - when you have a group of people putting to much focus on that one gift, you soon have a group of people no longer seeking after God - but seeking after a spiritual experience; and so they just might get a spiritual experience that is not God.  I can't help but wonder if this is not what has happened to some of these TC chapters?  If so, then Firebird - you really should be praying for revival in TC, instead of trying to explain to the fornits crowd what your all about.

That being said, I understand your desire to present the other side - but you should know, there is nothing you can say; no argument or defense you can give; that has not been heard time and again, and from programs and facilities with a proven history of horrible psychological and physical abuses.  You might be telling the truth as you know it - but there is nothing you can say that will prove it - and especially not to a crowd that knows as much as this crowd knows, about abusive conditions in drug rehab facilities; and those who defend them.

Its true I thought the staff person I spoke with was kind, and seemd to be dealing with integrity. But I didn't get far enough to learn if I would have felt otherwise had we turned to TC for help.

I was upset to read accounts of families not being able to contact their loved ones (absolutely intolerable) and of false information given during enrollment - or incomplete information (another intolerable situation) and of being forced to pan handle. Tell me, Where did Jesus ever tell his followers to force / compell others to pan handle?? If you don't have enough given freely by those supporting your work, to expand or continue,  then you cut back your work, and wait on God to give direction and provide. To those at TC, I'd say, If He isn't providing, maybe He is trying to tell you something.

hanzomon4:
Well said,

And I'll say again I'm not out to get you or TC, but the same arguments come up from  people defending truly bad places. It's ashame but the word of all facilities has been tainted by many bad ones and laws that allow them to exist. You have something to say do so, I'll drop in from time to time with questions.

Take a look at some of the other threads to see why many here have misgivings about these places. You'd be surprised at how dirty some programs(owners, staff, edcons) can be. If you don't know visit ISAC for more information on the issue, although you seem to know something(Synanon?)

Firebird81:
Once again, people are not ordered to Teen Challenge against their will. When someone gets court "ordered" it is because of one of two scenarios. Either they are facing jail and have heard about Teen Challenge and decide to try to get sent to the program instead of going to jail or they have been told they have to enter a program and they then try to convince the judge to consider TC instead of a county run facility.

Antigen's Ghost, have YOU actually read the those topics you asked me to read? I see one mother, who was convinced by Michael's website TC was bad. I see  two girls who were in a teen center wher apparently something happened. Howeveer, one of those girls goes on in the thread to get into an argument with someone and then claim she is an oral surgeon making $500,000 a yr. and still uses drugs... that doesn't sound like someone who is a little full of it to you? Would an oral surgeon go on the internet and brag about being a current drug abuser, considering that same oral surgeon would lose the ability to handle any controlled substances? Would indeed be de-certified as a doctor? Would the medical board even certify a person who had a history of drug abuse to begin  with????


Like I've been saying in the other thread---TC does not put a heavy focus on tongues, does not say tongues are required for salvation--that would be heresy. People are not ostracized, attacked or belittled at TC. They absolutely are not kept from their families. The first two weeks to 30 days are an isolation period from outside contact, just to get the person focused on the program. After that they can call or write every single day. Family can visit on an family day.

Karly:

--- Quote ---Your website seems to make some revelation that TC is a home mission of the Assemblies of God. That's some great investigative work there.....considering that Teen Challenge has ALWAYS prided itself in being so and the AG has always prided itself in having TC as part of it's denomination. There's no great mystery there, nor is there any great mystery that it is Pentecostal based.
--- End quote ---

No great mystery there?  Well, not even one Teen Challenge website that I've been to says anything on it about being affiliated with the Assemblies of God church, including the entire main website at http://http://teenchallengeusa.com/. Obviously, you were 'born' knowing this but I wasn't aware of this fact until I really started digging around over on the Assemblies of God's website at http://http://ag.org/top/ to find the Teen Challenge link!  So, why are they hiding this 'fact' from the public anyway? That doesn't look like pride to me!  That looks more like Teen Challenge is hiding the fact that they are affiliated with the Assemblies of God and visa versa!


--- Quote ---Still waiting for a response, Karly. You were very quick to set up a blog attacking the Teen Challenge program, but as I see from another former TC family member's post, you don't seem to be in a hurry to learn the truth. The truth is, there's nothing to expose here.
--- End quote ---

There is nothing to expose?  Evidently you will not face the facts or stop sticking up for this program for five-minutes to read and analyze any of the facts that I have posted on my web blog "Investigating Teen Challenge" at http://http://teenchallengecult.blogspot.com/.  Obviously, you feel that you can butter up the Teen Challenge Program all you want to because that is what you were trained to do all those years!  Evidently all that training has left you very close-minded and bitter!  Do you even realize that a world outside of Teen Challenge exists???


--- Quote ---Teen Challenge is not communal.
--- End quote ---

If you are sheltered away from the real world every single day for an entire year in Teen Challenge, while having your phone calls monitored and your mail read AND only allowed visits from people who are 'approved' by Teen Challenge then you cannot tell me that you are not in an a place that reeks of a communal nature!  

And if you want to argue the fact that your mail isn't read, read this post that a Mpls. reverend has posted on http://http://www.topix.net/forum/city/minneapolis-mn/TN94VATH520HE9UQM/p7- Here is the post from 'rev' which was written on Monday Apr 30th, 2007:
 

--- Quote ---"Number 3 in this gives consent for TC to go through mail - one of my people who went through the program did not receive the regular mailings I sent from our church and was told he didn't get any mail. It seems rather strange that a group that professes to be Christian would cut its clients off from the Christian support of their church. I had worked with this person and encouraged him in his entry to TC - why would mail from us (a simple newsletter or church bulletin) be considered so corruptive that he was not allowed to receive it? And a couple times they sent the mail back to church marked "Unknown here" on it when he had been there almost a year at that time. Did they not even know the names of their clients? Again, as I said before, I would not encourage anyone to enter the program from what I have seen as its "results" of treatment."
--- End quote ---

and now read the post directly below it from Cherokee Lady, which was written on Tuesday, May 1st, 2007:
 

--- Quote ---"I moved my son out of TC Riverside into a secular rehab on Jan 2, 2007. I'm STILL getting some unopened letters back where they wrote "refused" on them.(they just now are sending them back I guess; ones I wrote over 6 mo. ago.) They completely withheld them, he never knew I had written him those letters. Mine also were letters of encouragement. I'll never donate another dime to this organization."
--- End quote ---

NOTE: 'Rev' is referring to Number 3 from Page 15 in this Teen Challenge application: http://http://www.saintlouistc.org/pdf/stltc-application.pdf

This is the excerpt from page 15 of the Saint Louis Teen Challenge Application:


--- Quote ---TEEN CHALLENGE OF ST. LOUIS
2650 Appletree Acres * P.O. Box 213 * High Ridge, MO 63049 *

STUDENT AGREEMENT

1. I have read the rules and consent to abide by all of them, whether I agree with them or not.

2. I will dedicate myself to the discipleship program until it is recognized by the Teen Challenge staff that I qualify for completion. I realize this is only possible by submitting to the Lordship of Jesus Christ and that I cannot do this in my own strength.

3. I release to Teen Challenge the right to search, read and withhold my mail in the manner explained in the rules.

4. I release to Teen Challenge the right to do a room search without warning.(Note: This is not done routinely, but only at times of definite cause.)

5. I release the right to Teen Challenge to make a thorough search of my person and belongings on the day of my admission.

6. I understand that withdrawal from drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes will be accomplished without medication (cold turkey), aided only by prayer. If this is not agreeable, withdrawal should be done prior to admission.

7. I understand that Teen Challenge will not be held responsible for any of my personal property left, lost, or stolen while I am in the Teen Challenge program. When leaving Teen Challenge, I understand that all my personal property must be taken with me.

8. I release Teen Challenge from all financial or legal responsibilities in case of accident, injury, illness or other misfortune.

9. I understand that I will not receive payment for the work I do while in the Teen Challenge program. I also understand that the purpose of this work is to aid in my character development.

10. I release the right to Teen Challenge to withhold any of my belongings that they deem necessary. Any items not specifically forbidden in the rules will be held for me until my departure.

11. I agree to submit to the authority of all staff members.

12. I understand that I have civil rights guaranteeing confidential communications by phone and mail, as well as exercising the religion of my choice. Teen Challenge is an evangelical Christian discipleship ministry for people with life controlling problems. As such, I realize and submit to the ministry’s expectations to attend Christian religious activities coordinated by the ministry. Further, for reasons of assisting me in dealing with my life controlling problem, I understand staff will regulate and monitor my communications for a period of time determined by staff. I voluntarily give my consent allowing staff to exercise these procedures. I fully understand my rights and what I am waiving.

13. I understand that the following grievance procedure shall be made available to me while participating in the Teen Challenge of St. Louis program: a) The right to seek remedy for any complaint; b) The right to submit a written complaint to my designated case manager; c) The right to grieve directly to any staff member; d) The right to direct access to the facility director and the government authority at some point in the grievance process; e) The right to submit a complaint in writing and to have assistance in writing the complaint if unable to read or write; f) The right for grievances to be resolved in a timely fashion generally within seven days.
__________
Applicant Signature Date

--- End quote ---

And while you are at it, take a good, long, hard look at #8!


--- Quote ---8. I release Teen Challenge from all financial or legal responsibilities in case of accident, injury, illness or other misfortune.
--- End quote ---

Firebird81:

--- Quote ---No great mystery there?  Well, not even one Teen Challenge website that I've been to says anything on it about being affiliated with the Assemblies of God church, including the entire main website at http://http://teenchallengeusa.com/. Obviously, you were 'born' knowing this but I wasn't aware of this fact until I really started digging around over on the Assemblies of God's website at http://http://ag.org/top/ to find the Teen Challenge link!  So, why are they hiding this 'fact' from the public anyway? That doesn't look like pride to me!  That looks more like Teen Challenge is hiding the fact that they are affiliated with the Assemblies of God and visa versa!
--- End quote ---
KArly, are you really so dim that you think because it is not mentioned on a website that there is some conspiracy to hide the fact that Teen Challenge is part of a well-respected denomination of the Christian faith? I already explained why you wouldn't see that. It is because TC is non-denominational, even tho they are a home mission of the AG. They do not adhere the 16 articles of faith that the AG does. They adhere to 10. The other six are more denomination specific and may be a turnoff to Baptists or other denominations that would have a need for TC. Teen Challenge's turning point meetings, the outpatient program where most interviews for residential treatment are conducted are usually held at AG churches.


--- Quote ---Evidently all that training has left you very close-minded and bitter!  Do you even realize that a world outside of Teen Challenge exists???
--- End quote ---
YOU'RE calling me bitter? Wow, the irony of such a statement from you is apalling.



--- Quote ---If you are sheltered away from the real world every single day for an entire year in Teen Challenge,
--- End quote ---

you are not. students receive weekend passes to go home every month once they are out of induction. Furthermore, most students will go on choir outings to churches all over their respective areas most Sundays. Many of those churches also have luncheons afterward where the students get to hang out with the congregants. Fundraising gets students out several days a week. Various outreaches get students out in the world, like the CURE Corps every March in L.A. which is an entire month of street evangelism and outreaches that TC students do participate in.

 
--- Quote ---while having your phone calls monitored and your mail read AND only allowed visits from people who are 'approved' by Teen Challenge then you cannot tell me that you are not in an a place that reeks of a communal nature!  
--- End quote ---
You're right, Karly! Teen Challenge should encourage students to call all their old buddies and talk about the good old days. They should allow students to communicate with old girlfriends they used to get high with, because these people won't try to convince them to come back out and play, will they? Did you ever stop to think that there is a reason for rules like that? Your definition of communal is one then that says residential treatment is wrong. What solution would you propose, Karly. You are obviously the expert.

Regarding Rev's post, it sounds like he was sending things that could have been mistaken for junk mail to me. I would also like to know what kind of church he pastors. Many groups call themselves Christians that mainstream churches consider cults--like the Mormons or the Jehovah's Witnesses.


--- Quote ---and now read the post directly below it from Cherokee Lady, which was written on Tuesday, May 1st, 2007:
--- End quote ---
This would make me ask questions as to why.if it's even true to begin with. There seems to be a coordinated effort I'm seeing here by an organization called Delancey Street. Their own website is very vague. I see nothing to say they are not a for-profit organization. They claim to receive no funds from taxpayers yet the next page says Diane Feinstein has set up a foundation to receive federal taxpayer funds for Delancey Street. And  Some of the very complaints you have made about TC I see Delancey street's website does not address. And if they ARE for profit, then Diane Feinstein settingup a foundation for taxpayer funds would bring up ethics issues. Where is their daily schedule? What organizations are there who fund them, besides taxpayers. They claim $10 million annually in donations, yet I see no mention of non-profit status. What is the nature of the vocational training? Washing dishes in the restaurant? Working for a moving company? I want more information about this organization that has taken it upon itself to attack Teen Challenge so vociferously. I see this very website is part of the Delancey Street faithful. How much money does Mimi Silbert make? Is she earning it on the backs of those she claims to help? Can I call Delancey Street and request a full financial statement of their earnings and expenditures like I can BY LAW with Teen Challenge since it is a 501c3 non-profit.

Also, your blog is misleading concerning the Better Business Bureau's opinion of TC. You only showed the Springfield Offices, which do not fundraise and do not treat people. A thorough search of the BBB's website would have included individual TC's of which some actually are members of the BBB.




--- Quote ---NOTE: 'Rev' is referring to Number 3 from Page 15 in this Teen Challenge application: http://http://www.saintlouistc.org/pdf/stltc-application.pdf


3. I release to Teen Challenge the right to search, read and withhold my mail in the manner explained in the rules.
--- End quote ---

Like I said in the other thread, TC does not read mail, except in very special circumstances. And the only mail that is supposed to be withheld is if it is from a questionable source. The student is supposed to be made aware of that and the reasons why it is being withheld and sent back. It is not a policy of TC to hide mail from students.


--- Quote ---And while you are at it, take a good, long, hard look at #8!


--- Quote ---8. I release Teen Challenge from all financial or legal responsibilities in case of accident, injury, illness or other misfortune.
--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---


That's pretty standard. When you got your job, if you do work, you likely signed a very similar release form. It holds no legal water. Students have sued TC in the past and have won. TC does not take that document to court to try to claim some legal standing. It is every businesse's nature to try to avoid being sued. Like I said--most employers do the exact same thing.

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