Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Teen Challenge
Trying to figure out your angle
Antigen:
--- Quote from: ""Firebird81"" ---Howeveer, one of those girls goes on in the thread to get into an argument with someone and then claim she is an oral surgeon making $500,000 a yr. and still uses drugs... that doesn't sound like someone who is a little full of it to you? Would an oral surgeon go on the internet and brag about being a current drug abuser, considering that same oral surgeon would lose the ability to handle any controlled substances? Would indeed be de-certified as a doctor? Would the medical board even certify a person who had a history of drug abuse to begin with????
--- End quote ---
No, that doesn't sound the least bit implausible. I used to answer phones for about 1200 doctors around so Florida. I knew of a top notch neural surgeon who was on a regular opiate maint program; (waaaaaay better pharmaceuticals than the methadone they force on people without such good connections! Ever hear of Oxycodone referred to as "hillbilly heroin"? It's use is rampant around here. Who do you think is diverting all that high quality shit? Patients? Nope, medical staff and pharmacists. It's dangerous shit, no doubt. I've seen plenty of people undo themselves with it. But not everybody. And the odds of maintaining a habit w/o letting it mess up your life are so much better for someone in the medical field because they have both a reliable connect for regent quality drugs and the knowledge to use them to the best effect.
You may think that you've made a compelling argument to dismiss everything this lady has to say. And all your chosen friends may even support you in this. But in the more commonly accepted reality, you come off just like the Drug Free America Foundation and their crack pot ideological brethren in NIDA and ONDCP. When their own publicly funded study showed that 75% of illigal drug users were gainfully employed, instead of conceding that these certain unpatentable drugs that they don't sell under the Merck label don't necessarily make people unemployable, they called for stepped up efforts to make these gainfully employed people unemployed and unemployable.
Firebird81:
Once AGAIN, that very thread has far more people saying they were helped by Teen Challenge and Michael himself is driving the majority of the negative feedback, along with a couple of you here. If tha tyoung lady suffered abuse at a TC as a minor then it is a horrible thing. But it is no way a part of the Teen Challenge program. There have been far more cases of public school teachers abusing students than any reports of problems at TC. In fact right now do a worldwide internet search and find me even 20 different cases of people who report havingbeenabused at TC. Find me 5 lawsuits ever filed against TC for abuse in it's 50 YEAR history. Find me any incident in the entire history of TC where the police have had to raid a facility or shut it down. If TC is so abusive where ar ethe TC survivor suppot groups? Why has this never been reported in the news in 50 YEARS!?! With tha tmany individual centers and the 10's of thousands of people who have passed thru TC's doors why do we not hear thousands of people complaining of abuse?
Michael's own website teenchallengeexposed actually praises most of the staff he mentions. He points out 3 staff he hated, two I know, one I don't but if he said someof things Michael claims , he sounds like an arrogant ass and it's good he's gone. Christie Luna is not Miss warm and fuzzy and is kind of strict for sure, but not abusive. Her husband Larry is an amazing man. He is wonderfully friendly, open, caring individual.
Paul Montoya---Paul Montoya is the big scary green eyed monster induction center interns like to frighten new students with. In truth, he serves a very important purpose and is actually exptremely committed to staff involvement in helping students restore their lives. He teaches first phase at the Christian Life School in Riverside. (the post induction center). Teen challenge tries to match students with what counsellors they think will work best with the student. Sometimes counsellors are changed, because a bad fit was made. Paul Montoya's caseload is usually the harder headed bunch who have a history of causing problems in the program. Paul's very job is to raise the standard on them to either force them to take it more seriously or convince them it's too hard. Paul's class is pretty strict, but fun. You walk in on the first day and he tells you he doesn't allow horseplay or goofing off in class and he introduces you to the acronym LTL--listen to learn and learn to listen.
He's been known to yell arrgghhh out the window in mock frustration, feign a heart attack if a student answers a question right and give out candy during verbal quizzes. It's easy for me to see why some people dislike him, but I will also stand my the statement that most of thos ewho don't are also the biggest troublemakers in the program.
Othe rthan that, Michael does little more than attack the intelligence of other staff and complain about fundraising---on fundraising I agree with him, as do many former and current staff. But options are limited
Antigen:
--- Quote from: ""Firebird81"" ---KArly, are you really so dim that you think because it is not mentioned on a website that there is some conspiracy to hide the fact that Teen Challenge is part of a well-respected denomination of the Christian faith?
--- End quote ---
Nope! These days, if you can't find something about a primary affiliation that goes back a generation and a half between two very publicly known entities easily, it pretty much indicates focused effort at obfuscation.
Karly:
Antigen's Ghost wrote:
--- Quote ---Nope! These days, if you can't find something about a primary affiliation that goes back a generation and a half between two very publicly known entities easily, it pretty much indicates focused effort at obfuscation.
--- End quote ---
Antigen's Ghost- That was very well said!
Firebird wrote:
--- Quote ---KArly, are you really so dim that you think because it is not mentioned on a website that there is some conspiracy to hide the fact that Teen Challenge is part of a well-respected denomination of the Christian faith?
--- End quote ---
And as for you Firebird- keep flinging your mean little words around! It's very becoming to both you and Teen Challenge!
Firebird81:
I have not been flinging mean little words around, Karly. My patience with you is wearing tho. Assemblies of God is not a religion. It is a denomination of the Christian religion. You should correct your blog to state that. Calling it a religion gives the false impression that it teaches a different faith than the Christian religion, which it does not.
As for TC hiding the fact that they are a home mission of AG, here is my challenge to you. Pick up the phone and call any TC center in the country. You pick. Say" I see that you claim to be a Chrisitan drug rehabilitation program. Can you tell me what church you are affiliated with?" Or ask any TC student you see fundraising or out doing other work. You will see exactly how much of a coverup there is.
When you are done with that, ask point blank " if a person is committed by the courts yet doesn't speak in tongues will he be removed from the program or threatened with jail".
If you are going to go to the lengths you have to level accusations and deflect people away from that program, I believe you owe it to those people whom you would like to influence to be absolutely sure you are reporting the truth.
And before you try to point me and others to the topix.net discussions again, I will point out here and now, that comments on your blog, on Michael's website and on those discussions, which portend to attack teen challenge are overwhelmingly posted by the same few people repeatedly. Michael, You, Brenda and a woman who calls herself Cherokee Lady, as well a couple of people who are members of this forum who rely on you and Michael for their information regarding TC. Once again, this is all you have of the thousands of people who have been thru TC. And every ove of those topix.net discussions have large number of TC graduates or advocates who dispute the 5 or 6 of you who make these claims. Once again, Karly, are you interested in truth adn spreading truth or are you just looking for attention or pushing an agenda?
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