Forgiving former staff members

[Anonymous]

Out of the blue, the other day, someone I knew back from my program days contacted me. This person was not really a friend of mine, but I knew them and talked to them.

Long story short, this person was pro-program while I knew them, they worked to get to the staff level, and ended up working on staff for the program for a couple years before leaving.

When I talk to him it seems like he understands that the program hurt many kids, deeply, in a variety of ways, but fails to understand his role in it and blames it all on the 'higher ups' for fooling him and pressuring him to stay.

Not a lot of kids stay back to work at programs, though, so it's difficult to take him seriously. I tend to think that he really believed in the program, and thought he could help implement it and make it work.

I am not sure I want to be friends with this person again, because, even though he rails against the program, it's a very selective type of disgust. He is mad at himself for being stuck there for all those years and not leaving more than he is mad at the implanted ideology and forced coercion and physical abuse that goes on to keep a program running.

Has anyone dealt with this issue? Did you have friends or family members who were pro program, or even to the extent of working for one and have mixed feelings towards them? If so, how did you deal with it? Is it better just to stop contact, and not be friends with them? I know he likes to hear my very anti-program views, but I have to self censorship myself to make sure I don't start talking about staff or upper students who didn't fight the program and accepted it.

Do you just forget about it, and share your common interest in despising the cause and white collars of these programs, or be honest and just accept that I can't have anything to do with anyone who had anything to do with programs?

Please help.

[psy]

Out of the blue, the other day, someone I knew back from my program days contacted me. This person was not really a friend of mine, but I knew them and talked to them.

Long story short, this person was pro-program while I knew them, they worked to get to the staff level, and ended up working on staff for the program for a couple years before leaving.

When I talk to him it seems like he understands that the program hurt many kids, deeply, in a variety of ways, but fails to understand his role in it and blames it all on the 'higher ups' for fooling him and pressuring him to stay.

Not a lot of kids stay back to work at programs, though, so it's difficult to take him seriously. I tend to think that he really believed in the program, and thought he could help implement it and make it work.

I am not sure I want to be friends with this person again, because, even though he rails against the program, it's a very selective type of disgust. He is mad at himself for being stuck there for all those years and not leaving more than he is mad at the implanted ideology and forced coercion and physical abuse that goes on to keep a program running.

Has anyone dealt with this issue? Did you have friends or family members who were pro program, or even to the extent of working for one and have mixed feelings towards them? If so, how did you deal with it? Is it better just to stop contact, and not be friends with them? I know he likes to hear my very anti-program views, but I have to self censorship myself to make sure I don't start talking about staff or upper students who didn't fight the program and accepted it.

Do you just forget about it, and share your common interest in despising the cause and white collars of these programs, or be honest and just accept that I can't have anything to do with anyone who had anything to do with programs?

Please help.

Why hide how you feel about it.  Is there a point?  It sounds like he is a typical product of a fucked up system.. let me generalize:  He thinks of himself, becuase that's what keeps him healthy and alive.  Plus.. I'm guessing the guilt is pretty bad.  I think he knows, somewhere what he did.. Maybe he underestimates how much he was influenced.

A program survivor turned staff.. It sounds like he was a true believer.  He did what he thought was right at the time.  I wouldn't judge him too hard. Some people were affected more than others.  It's happening right now at Benchmark with a "Sucess Story" listed on their website.  She's studying to be an alchol/drug counselor, after which she will work for the program.

http://http://www.benchmarkyoungadultschool.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=1

It's hard to look at somebody like that, from my perspective, and not see an enemy...  But at the same time she is being used.  They picked a true believer, fast-tracked her (which she probably doesn't realize), and used her for publicity (to become a licensed Alcohol/Drug counselor so they can say they have one).

Do I blame her, or those who manipulated her...  I don't know.  She is going to become part of the system, and at some point is going to realize what's going on.  When that happens.. Well maybe she'll end up relapsing like so many of the other staff have already done (extremely high turnover rate)...  Maybe she'll be the next Benchmark bus-driver strung out on meth...  who knows.

[Anonymous]

Out of the blue, the other day, someone I knew back from my program days contacted me. This person was not really a friend of mine, but I knew them and talked to them.

Long story short, this person was pro-program while I knew them, they worked to get to the staff level, and ended up working on staff for the program for a couple years before leaving.

When I talk to him it seems like he understands that the program hurt many kids, deeply, in a variety of ways, but fails to understand his role in it and blames it all on the 'higher ups' for fooling him and pressuring him to stay.

Not a lot of kids stay back to work at programs, though, so it's difficult to take him seriously. I tend to think that he really believed in the program, and thought he could help implement it and make it work.

I am not sure I want to be friends with this person again, because, even though he rails against the program, it's a very selective type of disgust. He is mad at himself for being stuck there for all those years and not leaving more than he is mad at the implanted ideology and forced coercion and physical abuse that goes on to keep a program running.

Has anyone dealt with this issue? Did you have friends or family members who were pro program, or even to the extent of working for one and have mixed feelings towards them? If so, how did you deal with it? Is it better just to stop contact, and not be friends with them? I know he likes to hear my very anti-program views, but I have to self censorship myself to make sure I don't start talking about staff or upper students who didn't fight the program and accepted it.

Do you just forget about it, and share your common interest in despising the cause and white collars of these programs, or be honest and just accept that I can't have anything to do with anyone who had anything to do with programs?

Please help.

I think he is right about it not being his fault...he was brainwashed. Some kids  commit suicide, some kids just get psychologically deconstructed to the point they become worker-zombies. In both cases its the programs fault not the kids. He's more a vicetm than you as u made it out.

One should only be angry when they stay apologists..once they wake up, I think we should have understanding.

You know that girl lulu carter who was at kids untill she was 26..its that sort of thing.
Be freinds with him again if its not to difficult. If it is, there isnt much you can do,,,but dont blame him....imagine if you didnt just loose your teen years but your adult years...its like being tricked into staying in prison..its just heartbreaking

Ive actually had nightmares about it..this old man who looks like a troll tricks me into staying in a room and then I suddenly realize that Im 30 and my youth is gone

[mbnh31782]

as an ex-employee of a TBS/ Wilderness program... i have contacted some of the kids i was a counselor for (through myspace or other means -- at least those i can remember) and i've apologized for putting them through hell.  Even though some of their hell was not my fault, it felt only right to apologize for insisting on increasing their discomfort.

[Anonymous]

I would ask yourself did he accept the program ideology willingly or was it something that was coerced and forced upon him? The program I was at, I fought the whole time I was there, and refused to give in and so it's easy to look down on other program survivors who were there and didn't do anything. I don't really care about those who didn't take action either way. The one's I have a problem with are the kids who accepted the program, and then used it to attack other kids during group sessions, and seemed to enjoy it. It was the same with staff, some of them just did enough to keep their job, but others really believed in the program, you could tell, and so they were very crazy and mean. I would never forgive these people, who are the true believers. Neither would I forgive any staff who physically harmed kids, that is unforgivable. There is no reason you should ever strike or hurt a child, no excuse at all. It anyone gives you one, tell them to shut up, they are full of shit and that is all that can be said to someone who tries to excuse hurting kids. Now this kid was the same age as you it sounds like and was brought there by their parents so it's a different than staff. Some staff we had came right out of college and obviously didn't know what they were getting into. Well they left within 2 weeks. None of them, I call them normal people, stayed more than 2 weeks. If they stayed longer than that, you knew they weren't going to help you. Maybe they saw what was going on and left, or you didn't see a problem and you stayed. They payed the same as many other low wage jobs so it's hard to imagine that the people were so desperate for money that they had no choice, again they are full of shit and should be told that. This is a very personal experience and staff eventually realize what they are doing because their naive dream of kids coming back to thank them, or even liking them in any way other than traumatic fear, never happens. They fall into their pattern of hating the kids now for not returning affection for their own perceived sacrifices for taking a job that they thought they were helping troubled kids. It would be funny if not so disturbing that there are people that naive out there. Private programs feed on that naivety from all aspects, from their customer base of parents, to the staff they employ, to the kids who sign up for the program after it and stay.
So to reiterate my stance I think you should maybe try and forgive him, but I don't find it all that likely to be honest. If you fought the program and didn't give in, it's hard to respect those who did, for whatever reason, their arguments of fear and coercion ring hollow since you endured it as well and only wished everyone could of been strong enough to resist because the program wouldn't work as it was without kids getting in group and hurting each other at the behest of the sick staff members there who probably only stayed to watch these things happen. The staff were given authority they did not deserve and they ate it up and now wonder why nobody signs up for their myspace page and says thanks for helping me, Im just a poor old troubled teen who don't know how to act, you saved my life.

[mbnh31782]

well said guest...

I willingly admit i stayed for 3 months and 2 weeks before i finally quit.  Towards the last 2 months, i stayed only because i needed the money and i thought i could "make it work".  I did have to restrain kids, and i do have regrets for having done that.  I also have regrets for not speaking up when i saw stuff that was questionable ( a kid swallowed staples, and instead of sending them to the hospital, they put her on suicide watch)  I only wish i had the guts then that i do now to stand up for those who are being hurt.  i only regret not figuring it out sooner.

[Oz girl]

I wonder how many other young people sign up to work for schools within this industry, learn it is not what they thought it was and leave within a few months?

[Truth Searcher]

Quoted by guest

just accept that I can't have anything to do with anyone who had anything to do with programs?

Forgiveness:  1  to give up resentment of or claim to requital for
2  to cease to feel resentment against an offender

'Forgive' this person if that would be emotionally beneficial to you.  Personally, I find forgiveness very liberating.  It is tiresome to carry so much anger and hostility toward a person.  

Forgiveness does not: negate the wrong that you suffered.  It does not remove culpability from the offender.  It does not mean that you have to have an ongoing relationship with this person.  Doesn't even mean you have to speak civilly to him/her.    

It simply means you let go ... and in the process free yourself.

IMHO.

[nimdA]

I wonder how many other young people sign up to work for schools within this industry, learn it is not what they thought it was and leave within a few months?

Why you asking this question when I've already answered it for you about 3 or 4 times?

Look toots.. The wipe out rate for counselors goes something like this..

about 50 percent every six months..

So lets say you get 100 new counselors.. in six months you have 50

6 more months you have 25

6 more months you have 12

2 years you have maybe 4 to 6


TBS programs can't keep staff long enough for a few reasons. What most folks forget, or merely overlook, being a staff member at a TBS program is alot like being a diaper. You get shat on alot.

You have your supervisor dropping big turds on you.

You have your group dropping big turds on you.

Your family bitches nonstop because you are never around.

Girlfriends, boyfriends....you aren't serious are you?

Top it off you get paid like shit. You eat food that probably would be rejected by inmates on death row as unsuitable for human consumption. You have barely any time for yourself, and your so called training didn't do a damn thing to prepare you for anything.

but.. back to the topic at hand...

In my own case I'm not exactly sure how to say sorry. It is rather difficult to explain, but mainly it has a lot to do with geography. I guess if any of the kids I worked with ever contacted me I would say I'm sorry. So far I haven't been able to really communicate with any of them.

[try another castle]

I agree and disagree with Truth Searcher in the sense that she conflates two terms which I understand to be different. Neither way, IMO is right or wrong, I think it is an issue of perspective.

1. Forgiveness. No. I won't forgive. I do believe that to some extent, forgiveness is an acceptance that what was done is now absolvable. Sorry. I know you feel differently, Truth Searcher. I'm just not wired to think that way. It could also be because forgiveness as a term and a concept was twisted for us in  the program.

2. Let go. Yes. Absolutely. That is what I have done. I've had to let it go. And only when I was ready to, not a moment before. I had to let go of the bitterness, the anger, the hatred, the pain, the betrayal. It's not something someone can rush, though. I think I could probably talk to any of these staff now without blowing a gasket. (Doubtful I would want to, though.) Granted, I would probably feel uncomfortable with several of them and not know what to say, but I wouldn't be going for their throat like I was thinking about doing ten years ago.

Interesting, it was mentioned to me by a couple of people that there are quite a few survivors from my network of programs who are hell-bent on hunting down staff, finding out if they are still in the industry, and for some of them, they don't care if they are in the industry or not, they just want to hunt them down. Obviously, the intentions are far from benign. I have no opinion on whether this is right or wrong or whatever.

On another matter, not like I was ever a staff at one of  these places, but I would probably nix the idea of ever cold calling a student to apologize, no matter how sincere or noble your intentions. Call me old fashioned, but I think a handwritten letter is the ONLY way to go with that. That way, they aren't put on the spot, and they can sit and absorb  what you are saying to them, and decide if they feel you are truly sorry, doing step 9 of AA/NA, or are being self-serving to alleviate guilt.

I know that I wrote a letter of apology to an old flame and it definitely fell into the latter category. But at least it was a letter, and I told her not to feel obligated to ever contact me if she didn't want to. (Which she didn't.)

This isn't a slam against you, mbnh31782. It's just that what you said got me thinking about the whole "making amends" and apologizing thing, and how it relates to personal boundaries. Especially for survivors.

[mbnh31782]

No offense taken try another castle.....

Pretty much anyone i've contacted who were placed at the program were happy to hear from me and in some way, relieved that someone still cared about them to remember them after all this time.  

Granted, i can only remember a few of their names in the myriad of children that i was a staff to, and i dont expect every one of them to forgive me, as a matter of fact, i dont expect any one of them to forgive me.  Whether or not they forgive me for anything i have done, i have attempted to make amends.  I dont push the issue with any of them. and leave it completely up to them if they want to contact me back.  

Additionally, at least one i contacted seemed to have needed a friend who understood what lied beneath her surface self.  She needed someone who understood what she went through and she needed an outlet.  I'm glad i could be a support in that area for her instead of brushing her aside.

I went into the job with the intention of staying in the job because i got the memorandum from my parents -- "you move out and get a job with benefits that is full time and can support you and pays at least 20,000 a year"  The job i chose (three springs) happened to cover all those bases that my parents wanted me to find.  Because they expected me to stick out whatever i started, I "stuck it out" for close to 3 and a half months.  At first i was naieve about what was going on with the program.  That wore off after approximately a month.  It progressively got worse until i had panic attacks about work and ALMOST put myself in a mental psych hospital due to the stress and sheer absurdity of the job.  I was a "green" college student, just graduated and "out to change the world for children".  That goal hasnt changed, but my approach to "changing the world" has and DOESNT include places like three springs.  Any child i can prevent from landing in a place like that is all worth it to me.  And any child i can help in their healing process from being placed in one of those wretched places, is all worth it.

Try another castle,  I dont expect forgiveness, i just hope you can understand my view point.

[try another castle]

Well, I can't say I understand it, because I've never been in your position, and there is nothing that annoys me more than someone who is trying to sympathize with me by saying they understand, when they don't. So I would never insult your intelligence by saying something like that.

It's all good, man. Besides, I really appreciated your help on my project.

[Oz girl]

You know I can appreciate how easy it would be for a young grad or ex program kid to go into this industry with the genuine desire to help and either be corrupted along the way or get the fuck out fast.

The people i think must be sinister and sadistic from the start are those who work as escorts for kids or those who solely work as intake people in wilderness programs. In the first 3 seasons of British Brat camp they showed kids going through some kind of intake which involved staff hired solely to conduct strip searches or to lay down the law and to get the kids kitted up. It seemed a remarkably mean spirited thing to sign on to do all day every day. I cant help but wonder if some really shady characters are attracted to taking jobs just doing this.

[try another castle]

Actually, some of the most brutal and sadistic staff are the ones who went through the program themselves as teens. It just damaged their little teenage brains so much that they were never able to fully unfuck themselves.

You should hear their justifications for how horribly they were treated, and how they would laugh or talk about how beneficial it was for them, and it was the worst shit ever. And whichever one was the hot-button issue for them while they were in school, that manifested into how they abused the kids they were in charge of as staff.

Everyone's favorite person, Caroline, for example. She was known for being promiscuous before she got to CEDU. (Whether she was or not, I don't know. But they sure decided to make it an issue.) She was routinely humiliated for this while she was a student, I heard a couple of her accounts. So what was she known for as a staff? Humiliating us about sex. What did she end up doing? Sleeping with a student (while they were still a student, I'm not talking about Nicole).

No boundary issues there, noooo.


Cue the perpetual motion machine... oh wait, it's already on.

[nimdA]

Perpetual motion, or perpetual lotion?




cues for rim shot now...

lols.