Author Topic: Program Parents Guilt  (Read 2337 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Program Parents Guilt
« on: April 20, 2007, 09:15:56 PM »
There are many program survivors I personally know of who have committed suicide post program due to the inescapable mind fuck they received.

I am curious if any program parents have been driven to such extreme measures by their own sense of guilt.

On this forum we often hear of the aftermath and personal consequences from kids who were abused in various programs, but we rarely hear from their parents.

How do they react when finding out their child was mistreated? How do they deal with it? Do they have a forum like fornits where ex-program parents post? Any organizations? Any websites or books or literature to read?

How do parents react when finding out they paid a lot of money to dysfunctional "treatment centers" that didn't do anything but harm their kid or at best not help the issues they were sent there for in the first place? How do they deal with this?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Program Parents Guilt
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2007, 09:47:33 PM »
As someone who ended up in a private program, I have to say it was partly my fault as much as it was my parents because none of us expected what was to come. Even though I know we were all equally fooled it still did not repair the family we had that never worked in the first place. My parents just say that they did they best they could at the time given what they knew, and the end results was what they wanted which was me alive and that was most important. They say even if it meant locking me up in a cage, as long as it meant that I was alive that it was worth it. I laugh at that, because I know, not them, that I was not close to death, not like they thought at all. So I think there was a huge disconnect. They weren't in my life at all and only showed up when I needed help or got in trouble so that's all they saw, and not all the good things I did everyday when they were not around. So I think that then once "the experts" got involved and kept telling them I was bad, or chemically off, or whatever that they believed it. They always thought of themselves as messed up, so they figured, of course so would I be. I have never been that honest though about the feeling involved and what went on and the humiliating and degrading and permanently psychological anxiety that came with the experience. If I went into that kind of detail the guilt factor would be very real for them quite possibly, I don't really know. But they cling to the fantasy that I was seconds away from death and all means necessary were appropriate even if it meant making a deal with the devil. I disagree with this philosophy, now, because I think the lasting psychological anxiety that comes from the experience is not worth it. It's like searching for the person before the experience, and never quite finding them. I can dress up like them, talk like them, and act like them, but it's like I'm an actor within my own body, I am not all quite there. Some part of me is left, inside a deep shell within myself, buried , that can never be opened in fear of what I might find. So what is left is a surface that seems just as smooth as before, but in truth it is paper thin. A slight breeze will knock it over and reveal the invisible truth buried just beneath, colored by my own sense of shame and self doubt. So that leaves three of us who really gained nothing from it all. It makes you wonder what would of happened if another path had been followed. Maybe something better. Maybe something worse. Probably the same, just in another way. The end result was inevitable, which was completely dissolution of family, the only sane solution to the insanity of our existence.  Some things are better left unsaid. Untouched. Unknown.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline hanzomon4

  • Posts: 1334
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Program Parents Guilt
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2007, 10:41:26 PM »
Well said, great post....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Program Parents Guilt
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2007, 10:42:45 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
How do they react when finding out their child was mistreated? How do they deal with it? Do they have a forum like fornits where ex-program parents post? Any organizations? Any websites or books or literature to read?

Good question. There are a number of ex-program parents here. Some who claim to be pleased with their kid's treatment, some who weren't, some who were at first, but now are not.

Quote
How do parents react when finding out they paid a lot of money to dysfunctional "treatment centers" that didn't do anything but harm their kid or at best not help the issues they were sent there for in the first place? How do they deal with this?


A variety of reactions.
Some completely avoid the topic because they don't want to know they were scammed.
Some seek out a 'better, softer, gentler" program.
Some slink away and lick their wounds, chalkin it up to a bad mistake.
Some reconnect with their kid, listen, and profoundly apologize for their mistake.
Some file lawsuits.
Some share their experience in hopes it will prevent another parent from making the same mistake.
Some become advocates for change.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline BuzzKill

  • Posts: 1815
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Program Parents Guilt
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2007, 10:56:19 AM »
I know of one mother who attempted suicide. She did later die, but it was ruled an accidental death. It was a very sad thing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Oz girl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1459
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Program Parents Guilt
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2007, 12:04:24 PM »
That is terribly sad. What this industry does to families! :flame:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Karass

  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Program Parents Guilt
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2007, 12:15:28 PM »
It probably depends a lot on whether the kid had genuine problems before the program, still has them afterwards, or only developed them because of the program.

For parents of kids with real mental health problems, one reaction to the guilt is to keep searching for answers and solutions. Some program parents feel like they tried everything to offer their kid help or let him/her work things out on their own -- outpatient, inpatient, psychologists galore, meds, no meds, in-your-face supervision, leave-them-alone and see what happens freedom, talking, listening, bonding -- everything.

In desperation and ignorance, they turn to a program and see if that can help. It doesn't. So after stealing a chunk of their child's life and spending ridiculous sums of money trying to "get help," the parents and the teen end up back where they started, or worse. The mental health problems are still there. Maybe the kid wants help, maybe he/she doesn't. But there are still no answers or solutions -- just the hope that maybe, somehow, tomorrow will be better than today.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Like its politicians and its wars, society has the teenagers it deserves. -- J.B. Priestley

Offline Truth Searcher

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 225
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Program Parents Guilt
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2007, 03:24:31 PM »
Personally speaking, I play alot of "What if?" mind games.

What if I had just waited things out?

What if I had kept her home?

What if I would have found Fornits earlier... or been educated about the whole industry more thoroughly?

Because my daughter didn't attend a program that was "abusive" ... I don't have the degree of guilt that some other parents may experience.  My regret is more subtle.  

I regret that we lost 16 months of time with her.

I regret that we missed her 16th birthday.

I regret that there may always be an element of having been betrayed in her.

I regret that I was swayed by "professionals" and abdicated my parental authority.

I have never attempted suicide over our decision.  Although, when we first sent her I went through a terrible depression.  In hindsight, I believe my maternal instincts were screaming "this (placing a child) is wrong on so many levels".  But, then I had friends, family and those 'respected professionals' telling me "this is the best thing for your daughter" ... "because you love her" ... "she is standing on a precipice and is about to jump" ... "we admire your courage" .... yada yada.  I just assumed I had lost my objectivity in parenting her.

As I have explained before, when I placed our daughter, I did not experience relief, or the freedom that some parents exhibit.  I was completely and totally undone.

Yes many program survivors received (what  you eloquently called) a "mind fuck".  

What I am beginning to understand that as a parent I received one as well.  

Our family is lucky.  We are moving on.  But, for me, there will always be a nagging sense that I let my child down.  I only hope that she knows how much I love her ... and that I really was trying to help her.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
quot;The test of the morality of a society is what is does for it\'s children\"

Deitrich Bonhoeffer

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Program Parents Guilt
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2007, 02:20:40 AM »
Quote from: ""Truth Searcher""
Personally speaking, I play alot of "What if?" mind games.

What if I had just waited things out?

What if I had kept her home?

What if I would have found Fornits earlier... or been educated about the whole industry more thoroughly?

Because my daughter didn't attend a program that was "abusive" ... I don't have the degree of guilt that some other parents may experience.  My regret is more subtle.  

I regret that we lost 16 months of time with her.

I regret that we missed her 16th birthday.

I regret that there may always be an element of having been betrayed in her.

I regret that I was swayed by "professionals" and abdicated my parental authority.

I have never attempted suicide over our decision.  Although, when we first sent her I went through a terrible depression.  In hindsight, I believe my maternal instincts were screaming "this (placing a child) is wrong on so many levels".  But, then I had friends, family and those 'respected professionals' telling me "this is the best thing for your daughter" ... "because you love her" ... "she is standing on a precipice and is about to jump" ... "we admire your courage" .... yada yada.  I just assumed I had lost my objectivity in parenting her.

As I have explained before, when I placed our daughter, I did not experience relief, or the freedom that some parents exhibit.  I was completely and totally undone.

Yes many program survivors received (what  you eloquently called) a "mind fuck".  

What I am beginning to understand that as a parent I received one as well.

I've been saying that shit for a long time... They do it to both parents and kids.  I've read the emails.  I've seen the lies, the line of hate=love bullshit...

Quote
Our family is lucky.  We are moving on.  But, for me, there will always be a nagging sense that I let my child down.  I only hope that she knows how much I love her ... and that I really was trying to help her.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Parental Guilt
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2007, 03:17:56 AM »
My mother deals with all of this the same way I do: we both try to ignore it. Only I think she has genuinely convinced herself that it is so far in the past and she didn't know any better, so it's best ignored now. Time to move on.

I know she felt desparate. I know she didn't know any better, she didn't know what went on, she was "mind fucked" (which is better than "non-working"... program jargon for wwasp people, lol) I still resent it. I still feel very painfully betrayed and abandoned.

Her and I never had problems before I went to the program. It was all between me and my controlling father. Now there is always THAT between her and I, at least for me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Program Parents Guilt
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2007, 08:24:06 AM »
If a parent knowingly ignored danger signals or clear evidence of abuse or harm to his child, guilt is appropriate.  Guilt is not appropriate if the parent made the best choice with the information available to him at the time.  There are flaws in every program, every school, every workplace.  Not all teen programs cause lasting harm to a kid, even if some might not agree with the methods used.  My kid's biggest complaint (really his ONLY complaint) is that so much of his college fund was used.  He agrees, however, that he would not have needed that fund had he NOT gone away.  It's a Catch 22.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Program Parents Guilt
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2007, 09:47:58 AM »
I would be amazed if someone could control their emotional response based simply on the deciding factors of whether or not they did research. I think the guilt thing is solely dependent on what your kid tells you when they get home. If they were mistreated, no amount of research will keep the guilt out of your head. If you sent them to the worst program in the country, and they come back and sing it's praises, the parent is probably not going to feel any guilt at all, even if many other kids were abused in that same program. I think it's a very personal type of experience, just as it is for program survivors.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »