Split from Court Ruling Thread

[Anonymous]

FJ:  You contend that the students on restriction were asked to complete a noble and honorable task by chopping firewood for those in need. I do recall an incident where a staff member assigned to restrictions named Dee had the students who were misbehaving wade out into the middle of the lake for the purpose of doing some exercise. I also distinctly remember this particular event occuring in the winter time when it was quite cold out. For the record I don't recall any disciplinary action being taken against the individual for this event.Since you were there during this time period please explain the purpose or logic behind this. To most folks this would appear to be punitive in nature which is in direct conflict with any true therapuetic model. Please note the lack of insults or misleading questions or "fluff" in my post. I think this is a pretty fair and direct question. Thanks in advance for your response.

[RobertBruce]

It appears that our MPD friend Sybil would prefer to respond with a simple "no comment" to my restriction questions. I in an effort to inform the public I will undertake the task of answering the questions myself. Please bear in mind the responses are based on my experiences from several years ago, things may have changed since then. However recent reports would seem to discount that possibility.

have kids on restriction ever been made to move large rocks or railroad ties around for no reason?

Quite frequently. Restrictions kids were made to do the general upkeep of the school both inside and out, cleaning, general landscaping et cet. When work projects could not be found the kids were made to do pointless tasks such as moving rail road ties back and forth or carrying large rocks around the lake.

What did the restriction diet consist of?

Breakfast: Single servings of cereal, and a carton of milk. Occasionaly a piece of fruit would be provided. Depending on the restrictions staff mood would determine whether seconds would be allowed.

Lunch: (2) Sandwiches, either bologna or cheese (for those kids who had dietary restrictions) and a bowl of soup. Lunch was served in the luxurious lower left field where you were accompanied by a large amount of goose shit.

Dinner: (2) Sandwiches, either bologna or cheese (for those kids who had dietary restrictions) and a bowl of soup. Soup would be made at the beginning of the week and made to last seven days. Dinner was generally served at the Chalet.

Keep in mind when looking at this diet many kids were on it day in and day out for months at a time. What's more these kids are doing at least three hours of work assingments a day, and 1-2 hours of calistenics. The remainder of the day was spent in either class/reals, or at the Chalet several hours into the night, doing homework or writting assingments. On the weekend the time spent doing work assingments went up to about 9 hours and calistenics went to about 3.

Now I took the liberty of running this award winning menu through a calorie counter.

Here's what it came back with:

Bolonga (pork, non lean) 1 slice-57 calories.

White Bread- I slice 24 calories without the crust.

Cereal ( the most common type we ate was rasin bran) I serving-187 calories.

Milk (small carton) 22 calories.

Cheese (American yellow) 68 calories.

Apple (the most common type of fruit we were given) 55 calories.

Soup (vegetable, again the most common kind we were given) 145 calories.

So adding all this up and it shows us that depending on a number of variables each kid was getting approximately 600-700 calories a day. This is at the same time as we doing much more physical activity then usual as well.

These numbers can all be verified through this website:

http://www.thecaloriecounter.com/

Now according to this website:

http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/nutritio ... ments.html

The average boy age 11-14 requires 2500 calories per day.

The average boy age 15-18 requires 3000 calories per day.

The average girl age 11-14 requires 2200 calories per day.

The average girl age 15-18 requires 2200 calories per day.

So it appears there was quite a defiancy for those of us who suffered under this policy.

What was the longest any kid was ever on restriction?

I don't know what the longest was, I do know that many kids stayed on for months at a time. One kid in particular was on for eight months straight without any sort of break.

Describe what the calistentics is like while on restrictions.

An hour or two of routine exercises lead by army rangers and extended runs/suicides up hills. Breaks were allowed on occasion provided the kid remained in the "front leaning rest position" the entire time.

Are kids ever kept out in the elements for extended periods of time while on restriction?

Without question. The Chalet itself was built for just that reason. Prior to it being built the kids were kept in a greenhouse at the very least. However this was seen as too accomadating and so the chalet, a pavillion of sorts with no walls naturally (no tables or chairs either) was built on the far side of the lake. There the kids sat year round for eating dinner, and  homework/writting assignments. They would generally be kept out there until lights out time in the dorms. Of course most work assingments/calistenics and lunch/breakfast were held outside as well.

Do the kids ever do work that personally benefits the staff at HLA?

Yes, they were given large amounts of the chopped wood.

Is withholding contact between the student and his/her family theraputic?

Probably not. This was in all likelyhood done to prevent the kids from discussing exactly what it was that was going on while on restrictions. It was only after the restriction was over and all the writting assingments were complete (addmissions of guilt) that the student was allowed to talk to their parent again.

[Anonymous]

okay ill bite, no pun intended....

when  I add up the calories, based on what you listed, I get 1,029 calories based on the bologna sandwiches and assuming one slice per sandwich.  Now, with the cheese version, I get 1,073 calories. What were the drinks at lunch and dinner? water ? Also, there are other variables. The brand/type of white bread, the size of the soup cup/bowl, the brand of soup, whether or not the milk was whole, lowfat or nonfat, etc, etc. well you get my drift. I know you did your fair share of research, but your math doesnt add up, just thought Id point that out  

[Anonymous]

When one actually looks up these items, they are inaccurate here is what I came up with instead :

One slice thin white bread with crust  - 53
Kellogs raisin bran  - 1 cup - 195 calories
1 cup lowfat white milk - 102
1 slice american cheese - 93
1 slice regular beef and pork bologna - 86
1 cup vegetarian canned vegetable soup - 72

assuming water with meals and 2 apples a day,  this comes out to 1,275 calories for the cheese diet and 1,247 for the bologna diet. If 2 slices of meat or cheese were on each sandwich, or if milk was served with lunch or dinner, or more than 8 oz of soup was served each time, these numbers would go up.

[RobertBruce]

My God bullfrog you were right about something. Good for you! It was bound to happen sometime. It appears I forgot to add the soup in twice. Thank you for pointing out the mistake. I'll edit my numbers immediatly.

Of course remember when you used to claim there was no restriction diet? Ever.


I'm glad to see youve finally accepted the truth.

[TheWho]

I can see FJ’s point.  I am not a nutritionist but just scanning your list of calories indicates something is wrong (half truths maybe?).  Only 22 calories in milk?  Isnt that like 2 table spoons of 1% low fat milk, that wouldn’t even wet the surface of the cereal.

Again, I may be wrong, (this isn’t my area) but your numbers don’t look right.

[RobertBruce]

Whoops, looks like you got ahead of yourself. Bullfrog you know how seldom youre ever right, let's not push the envelope.

[RobertBruce]

I can see FJ’s point.  I am not a nutritionist but just scanning your list of calories indicates something is wrong (half truths maybe?).  Only 22 calories in milk?  Isnt that like 2 table spoons of 1% low fat milk, that wouldn’t even wet the surface of the cereal.

Again, I may be wrong, (this isn’t my area) but your numbers don’t look right.

Its possible, does anyone know what the actual size is of those little cartons?

[RobertBruce]

Kellogs raisin bran - 1 cup - 195 calories

Kellogs rasin bran is loaded with sugar, more calories. We were given the generic rasins and flakes brand.

1 slice american cheese - 93

There are multiple varities listed and most of them seem to average around 50 calories per slice.

1 slice regular beef and pork bologna - 86

No its 57 take a look.

http://www.thecaloriecounter.com/Foods/ ... /Food.aspx

assuming water with meals

You assume correct.

and 2 apples a day

A day??? Are you nuts? We were lucky if we got two apples a week. I said it was on occasion not a staple of every meal.

If 2 slices of meat or cheese were on each sandwich

Never.

or if milk was served with lunch or dinner

Some kids ate their cereal dry and drank the milk, otherwise no.

or more than 8 oz of soup was served each time

We each got a little styrofoam bowl. One serving, nothing more.

these numbers would go up.
 
 

Not nearly enough. Remember Bullfrog the food that was on your table came at these kids expense.

[RobertBruce]

So lets break down these updated and more accurate numbers then.

Breakfast

1 serving cereal-187 calories.

1 carton milk-we'll say 100 for right now until someone can find the exact measurement needed.

1 Apple-55 calories.

342 calories.

Lunch

4 slices of bread-53 calories x 4= 212 calories.

2 slices bologna- 114 calories.

2 slices cheese 100

1 cup of vegetable soup-72 calories

 384-398 calories

Dinner

4 slices of bread-53 calories x 4= 212 calories.

2 slices bologna- 114 calories.

2 slices cheese 100

1 cup of soup-72 calories

384-398 calories

So with the cheese sandwich and assuming the kid got an apple that day were left with:

1110 calories.

With the bologna sandwich and assuming the kid got an apple that day we're left with:

1138 calories.

So even with these higher numbers were still running at over 1000 calories short for just the girls.


Are you people okay with this?

[sick of child torture girl]

Oh robert dont bother with their repulsive haggling over how MUCH the children were starved, anyone reading that "diet" would be horrified. I studied nutritional science and not only are there obviously not enough calories to adequately supply a human body, the nutritional content or the "meals" would not be accepted by the fda or any cps service regarding what is allowable to feed to human children. That food isTotally devoid of any sustance My god...its like they are feeding you cardboard


Sickening sickening that those who and Shh people would try to validate that. I thought they were trying to pretend to be "unaware" of abuse. Its clear they are quite aware of abuse and simply decide to call it something else.

I suggest int he future if anyone questions wether the staf, the apologists "know"  if abuse goes on at the HLA direct them to this thread. Starving children is black and white and supporting it is the darkest thing any decent person can imagine . I am replused

BRAVO on bringing this to light

[Anonymous]

HLA folks- And I am generally one of you-  just SHUT UP about the restriction diet.  It was WRONG.  It was one of the stupidist ideas that HLA ever had.  Even if you are very liberal with the calories, it does not add up to a suficient ammount.  For those of us that support HLA- we know that a lot of kids were helped and more good than bad was done, but the restrictions meals were a horribly wrong thing to put in place.  It was immoral and unethical.  I remember when HLA finally did away with it, most of us said "It's about damn time".    Just drop the argument.  Admit that there were somethings that should have been different.  You are much more credible if you are willing ackowledge some of the weaknesses, just like the HLA-haters are more credible if they can acknowledge some of the positives.  Something RB has been willing to do when you are not fighting rediculous fights with him.

[Anonymous]

I wasnt arguing whether it was right, wrong,  happened, didnt happen, etc..I was just pointing out the statistical data was incorrect...the numbers were misrepresented. That was the only thing I was trying to bring to light.

[RobertBruce]

Oh but remember you used to claim it never occured. Why the change? Do you now acknowledge it was abusive?

[Anonymous]

I wasnt arguing whether it was right, wrong,  happened, didnt happen, etc..I was just pointing out the statistical data was incorrect...the numbers were misrepresented. That was the only thing I was trying to bring to light.

Arguing between 900 and 1200 calories is like arguing about how many Jews were killed in the holocaust.  If your argument is about numbers you are missing the point.