Author Topic: Court Dismisses Indemnity Clause  (Read 4399 times)

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Offline RobertBruce

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Court Dismisses Indemnity Clause
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2007, 01:57:15 PM »
He also believes less than 1% of all kids enrolled in TBS's are ever abused, so in his mind none of them are bad.
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Offline TheWho

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Court Dismisses Indemnity Clause
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2007, 07:55:11 PM »
Seems I have my own personal statistician ?.errr?. I mean troll?  I am trying to limit my responses to him, but in the mean time I apologize.
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2007, 08:03:14 PM »
For what, dismissing all those kids claims of abuse?

All I can say is it's about time.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2007, 09:36:48 PM »
To "The Who":

Have you ever bothered to contact the state of Georgia to find out whether or not HLA had the proper licensure? It's not too hard to do - you obviously have a computer and access to the Internet.

You and others claim HLA's new licensure will make them more marketable - if this is the case, then why did HLA fight being licensed by the state of Georgia for so many years?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2007, 09:54:31 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
To "The Who":

Have you ever bothered to contact the state of Georgia to find out whether or not HLA had the proper licensure? It's not too hard to do - you obviously have a computer and access to the Internet.

You and others claim HLA's new licensure will make them more marketable - if this is the case, then why did HLA fight being licensed by the state of Georgia for so many years?


Obviously because it will be more of a hassle for them and they will now have someone to answer to.  As has been said on here before, HLA greatest weakness is Len Buccellato's narcisism.  He does not want to answer to anyone.  It took something like this to force compliance.  Make no mistake, he is hating it.
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Offline TheWho

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Court Dismisses Indemnity Clause
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2007, 10:15:14 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
To "The Who":

Have you ever bothered to contact the state of Georgia to find out whether or not HLA had the proper licensure? It's not too hard to do - you obviously have a computer and access to the Internet.

You and others claim HLA's new licensure will make them more marketable - if this is the case, then why did HLA fight being licensed by the state of Georgia for so many years?


It is a hassle to have to conform to another system besides your own.  You may have the best practices but they need to be changed to conform to the license agreement.  Fees need to be paid, records need to be kept a certain way, documents need to be stored and copies made and delivered to state agencies.

There are costs associated with the license that are not seen and another head count may need to be added cover all the requirements.  I am sure no one feels bad for a corporation that needs to spend the extra money but if you feel it isn?t doing any good or adding value to the children why would you embrace it?  In many people minds the added red tape may actually decrease the effectiveness of the services provided, raise the cost of tuition and add no benefit to the bottom line which is the children.

I am not saying licensing is bad, if a school is below standards then being licensed would add value, but many feel it drags down many schools who are servicing the children well.

But once you are submitting to the license requirements why not use this as a marketing tool to show you are commiting to a higher standard to grab a larger share of the market and recoup some you loses or burdens by being licensed?  Display it proudly on your web site!!
Vertually every company that is ISO9000 certified was forced to be so by thier customers or they would lose their business, this is not unique to the TBS industry.
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Offline Deborah

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Court Dismisses Indemnity Clause
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2007, 11:55:46 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
It is a hassle to have to conform to another system besides your own.  You may have the best practices but they need to be changed to conform to the license agreement.  Fees need to be paid, records need to be kept a certain way, documents need to be stored and copies made and delivered to state agencies. There are costs associated with the license that are not seen and another head count may need to be added cover all the requirements.

Is there ever an end to your bullshit?
Go read the regs and then justify your claims of hardship and expense associated with being licensed. Just c&p from the regs any requirement that might be anywhere near the burden you are attempting to spin.

Is there a fee, Who? How much is it?
Documents need to be stored? Huh? Elaborate.
'Copies' of what need to be made and delivered to what state agencies?
How are records to be kept 'in a certain way'?
Is that an admission that programs currently are not keeping adequate records or storing them properly?
Would a parent really want to spend $6000 for ANY kind of 'treatment' in a facility that doesn't keep accurate records on things such as when and what meds were dispensed, when and what kind of punishment a child receives, a basic service plan (rather than a one-size-fits-all-new-agey-bullshit-synanon/est/CEDU-approach), background checks on employees, documentation of teacher/staff credentials.  IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK for 6 grand a month? Besides, MOST parents are under the assumption that, for that price, the program is operating above board with the proper licenses and credentials.
Besides, they've been leading the public to believe that they were 'monitored' by their accrediting agencies. Do those agencies require any documentation?  If they do, then no additional burden. If not, why? And all the more reason to have state oversight.

I'm sure it will be an inconvenience to report to the state when someone is physically or sexually assaulted or attempts suicide or endures a broken arm due to restraint, etcetc, if they decide to operate in compliance with the law. They may also choose not to report such incidents and risk getting caught. They could always plead ignorance like the knuckleheads at RC did.
You, and they, may not feel that this 'adds value', or that it's in the kids best interest, but provided they do comply with reporting laws, this could be the closest we'll ever come to getting an accurate, documentable picture of the reality inside the bubble. All programs should be licensed and be required to report accidents, injuries, assaults, sexual misconduct, and deaths etcetc. The entire industry has been self-regulating for far too long. They have not demonstrated that they are capable of acting ethically or are mature enough to handle that level of responsibility. I wouldn't leave my dog in their care, if I had one.

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I am sure no one feels bad for a corporation that needs to spend the extra money but if you feel it isn?t doing any good or adding value to the children why would you embrace it?

Are you brain dead? That 'value added' line is getting old.  It's not as if they have a choice in the matter. They have been operating in VIOLATION OF THE LAW for 12 years. Whether or not to EMBRACE it is not the issue. It astounds me that kids are still there with this knowledge available to the public. It further astounds me that EdCons are lined up to start shipping kids there again as soon as they get a green light. It's damned ironic that a program that professes to set wayward kids straight is a "regular law breaker". Yes, make light of the truth Who. That's what you guys do so well. Double standards. That's one reason these programs aren't effective. Poor modeling, in a nutshell.

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In many people minds the added red tape may actually decrease the effectiveness of the services provided, raise the cost of tuition and add no benefit to the bottom line which is the children.

Do you personally know 'minds' in the TT industry that feel this way? How exactly will following regs and treating the kids humanely, decrease the 'effectiveness' of the services provided. For that matter, 'effectiveness' has never been proven in the industry, hence the need for better record keeping and reporting.

Quote
I am not saying licensing is bad, if a school is below standards then being licensed would add value, but many feel it drags down many schools who are servicing the children well.

First off, if you want to speak honestly, why don't you stop referring to 'programs' as 'schools'. That's precisely the fraud programs have perpetrated for decades to avoid state oversight. There's only ONE reason they even have academics. Any facility that warehouses kids 24/7 must ensure those kids receive an education. They certainly don't want the kids attending the public schools in their districts- must keep them contained in the bubble to protect the illusion. Therefore they must provide some semblance of education.
And who are the many? Can you name a licensed program that feels that being licensed 'drags them down'? Or are you talking out your backside again? Whatever sounds good and might persuade a potential program parent to overlook the fact that HLA (and others) wantonly OPERATE IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW. There's no ethical way to justify it, Who.

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But once you are submitting to the license requirements why not use this as a marketing tool to show you are commiting to a higher standard to grab a larger share of the market and recoup some you loses or burdens by being licensed? Display it proudly on your web site!!


Proudly? You're advocating MORE DECEPTION. They should be required to shamefully divulge in their literature that they violated the law for 12 years, deceived the state twice to avoid regulation and after two (or was it three) investigations, were forced, kicking and screaming, to apply for licensure. THAT'S THE TRUTH. That should ADD SOME VALUE.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2007, 06:37:44 AM »
Deborah - Thank you for stating what so many of us know to be the real truth!!!! If one thing comes from this board, I hope it is to spare another parent and child from the pain & agony of these programs.

All along there's never been an apology or an ounce of remorse from HLA for all the lies and deceptions. Let's not forget all the kids out there for the past 12 years that received "faux" therapy from unlicensed and unskilled counselors. Lives have been destroyed - did you ever stop to think about that?

And, CA, please stop blaming everything on Len. Each and every one of you who was a part of the lies and deception are to blame. It probably makes you feel better and helps justify why you and others stayed there for so long, but all of your hands are just as dirty as his.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2007, 10:03:07 AM »
Quote
records need to be kept a certain way?. And you responded??Would a parent really want to spend $6000 for ANY kind of 'treatment' in a facility that doesn't keep accurate records

No one was talking about the accuracy of the records.  Lets say you had a system which collected very detailed information about each child?s medical history, while at the school, and the state requires you to record the information using their software or their methods which many of us know that state record keeping can be antiquated.  You would have to abandon the system you have now for a less effective one.  By the time the state gets around to reviewing and approving your system (if they even allow it) most places would just adopt the inferior system just to comply and move on.


Quote
Any facility that warehouses kids 24/7 must ensure those kids receive an education. They certainly don't want the kids attending the public schools in their districts- must keep them contained in the bubble to protect the illusion. Therefore they must provide some semblance of education.


This is precisely why many of these schools don?t seek licensing.  I know I wouldn?t want to have the school put my kids into the local public school system?.these are the type of requirements that antiquated regulation can impose and drag a school back to the 19th century.  Many of these students are preparing to enter some of the top schools in the country, state requirements don?t always target these kids needs.

You need to look at the larger picture, Deborah, regulation has value and protects the public from the most inferior school systems and programs (maybe HLA fell below the standards I don?t have knowledge of that detail), but for those who are trying to excel and provide kids with something different and better than local school systems inviting the state in to design your system is nuts.

If I was on welfare, sure I would want the state involved to provide my kids with an education, hot lunch, medications and a check each month.  Its great for that and I am proud to pay into that each month.   But many of these parents are looking for much more than that and the state doesn?t necessarily raise the bar or have a good track record when it comes to protecting kids.
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2007, 10:19:00 AM »
The school is already so far below standards they won't be losing anything, in fact it will all be an improvement, add that to the kids being in a much safer environment and they really have nothing to lose.

In a just society they would be punished and fined for "manipulating" the system for this long. Not allowed to reap any benefits from it.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2007, 11:29:49 AM »
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote
No one was talking about the accuracy of the records.  Lets say you had a system which collected very detailed information about each child?s medical history, while at the school, and the state requires you to record the information using their software or their methods which many of us know that state record keeping can be antiquated.  You would have to abandon the system you have now for a less effective one.  By the time the state gets around to reviewing and approving your system (if they even allow it) most places would just adopt the inferior system just to comply and move on.

More irrelevant Blather. Now the state's going to come in can change the program's computer software.  :rofl:  Can you cite one instance in which this has been the case. And it has to be in THIS industry, not some irrevelant, "it sometimes happens in the auto industry" scenario? To my knowledge, a kids medical records only have to be contained in their file when the inspector arrives to conduct their review of the program. Programs self report incidences on forms they download from the state website.

Quote
Any facility that warehouses kids 24/7 must ensure those kids receive an education. They certainly don't want the kids attending the public schools in their districts- must keep them contained in the bubble to protect the illusion. Therefore they must provide some semblance of education.
Quote from: ""TheWho""
This is precisely why many of these schools don?t seek licensing.  I know I wouldn?t want to have the school put my kids into the local public school system?.these are the type of requirements that antiquated regulation can impose and drag a school back to the 19th century.  Many of these students are preparing to enter some of the top schools in the country, state requirements don?t always target these kids needs.

Hey, nutjob. You're more full of shit than a Xmas turkey. The state NEVER requires programs to send kids to public schools, unless they aren't offering academics. They might also require it if the education being provided by the program does not meet BOE requirements. If you know something different, cite it. I'd be interested to read it.

Quote
I want you to look at the larger picture, Deborah, regulation has value and protects the public from the most inferior school systems and programs (maybe HLA fell below the standards I don?t have knowledge of that detail), but for those who are trying to excel and provide kids with something different and better than local school systems inviting the state in to design your system is nuts.

I already see a much bigger picture than you are capable of or will allow yourself to see. Programs need to be licensed. Period. "Trying to Excel" isn't good enough. The state doesn't come in and Re-design programs. They mandate some very basic guidelines that will assist (not insure) that kids are treated more humanely and ethically. They probably wouldn't even notice or care that the so-called 'therapy' at HLA and most other programs isn't evidence-based, so long as they had licensed professionals on staff.

Quote from: ""TheWho""
If I was on welfare, sure I would want the state involved to provide my kids with an education, hot lunch, medications and a check each month.  Its great for that and I am proud to pay into that each month. But many of these parents are looking for much more than that and the state doesn?t necessarily raise the bar or have a good track record when it comes to protecting kids.


Nor do programs. Did you hear about the latest death? At AEGs Lone Star Expeditions? Did you add that one to your statistics? These incidents need to be reported so the ineffective and dangerous nature of programs can finally be shown with hard stats. That won't happen until all programs are under the jurisdiction of their state licensing agency. Sure as hell can't depend on NATSAP or JCAHO or SACS or the EdCons to compile that data.

Yeh, parents want more, and boy are 'some' surprised when they find out they're paying "Harvard tuition" for an unlicensed program with no outside monitoring, 'experimental therapy', staff without proper credentials, and antiquated and abusive BM techniques- that would land a parent in jail if they did the same at home.
They kinda look like this.  :o Then this.  :flame:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2007, 12:17:35 PM »
Quote
The state NEVER requires programs to send kids to public schools

I Never said they did,  You brought it up I didn?t.  I wouldn?t want the school to send my child off to the local public school all day, with the bullying, safety issues etc.

Quote
Nor do programs. Did you hear about the latest death? At AEGs Lone Star Expeditions? Did you add that one to your statistics?


Whenever people here are at a loss about how to respond they say ?Oh, kids are dying in these places!  Didn?t you hear??? this as a scare tactic to parents???what you fail to mention is the kids are much safer in a TBS than anyplace else.  Thousands of kids are dying needlessly every year because the local school system, families and/or local support systems are failing them.  Schools (TBS?s) are set up to help these kids and provide a safe environment which they do and they are very effective ?? I think we would like to be able to save them all but we cant, there is no magic cure.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2007, 12:32:42 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote
The state NEVER requires programs to send kids to public schools

I Never said they did,  You brought it up I didn?t.  I wouldn?t want the school to send my child off to the local public school all day, with the bullying, safety issues etc.


What, do you think people can't remember what you posted earlier this morning:
This is precisely why many of these schools don?t seek licensing. I know I wouldn?t want to have the school put my kids into the local public school system?.these are the type of requirements that antiquated regulation can impose and drag a school back to the 19th century.

Perhaps someday, sooner than later, we'll have the hard data to show parents that their kids will be no safer in bubble programs that cost 6 grand a month.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline TheWho

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Court Dismisses Indemnity Clause
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2007, 04:41:05 PM »
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote
The state NEVER requires programs to send kids to public schools

I Never said they did,  You brought it up I didn?t.  I wouldn?t want the school to send my child off to the local public school all day, with the bullying, safety issues etc.

What, do you think people can't remember what you posted earlier this morning:
This is precisely why many of these schools don?t seek licensing. I know I wouldn?t want to have the school put my kids into the local public school system?.these are the type of requirements that antiquated regulation can impose and drag a school back to the 19th century.

Perhaps someday, sooner than later, we'll have the hard data to show parents that their kids will be no safer in bubble programs that cost 6 grand a month.



Response to this post can be found here:

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252328#252328



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