Author Topic: HUGE  (Read 16437 times)

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Offline Rusty Goat

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HUGE
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2007, 01:44:14 PM »
Man... a suggestion to refine a search gets THIS kind of reaction? Wtf?

Maybe this is part of the reason people don't want to get involved?


Yeah, bummer, man. Where's the support?  :-?  Actually, these neverending back in group comments are really getting old. This isn't about being in group or anything of the sort. If you'll take some time to notice, nobody on here is in group and most likely hasn't been for over 20 years. Bitch and moan all you want. If you were there with us, you would have noticed that the kids at the school were actually listening and supported the efforts of the two folks who actually showed up. They are the future of this country.

RG
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2007, 04:56:47 PM »
Quote from: ""Rusty Goat""
Yeah, bummer, man. Where's the support?  :-?  Actually, these neverending back in group comments are really getting old. This isn't about being in group or anything of the sort. If you'll take some time to notice, nobody on here is in group and most likely hasn't been for over 20 years. Bitch and moan all you want. If you were there with us, you would have noticed that the kids at the school were actually listening and supported the efforts of the two folks who actually showed up. They are the future of this country.

Well I'm just saying you could lighten up a bit, all she did was point out the commonality of that name, etc.

As far as the "back in group" stuff goes, I don't know about about all that; I wouldn't have said that to you in any serious way (and wasn't the one who said that on this thread either).

I couldn't agree more- getting through to the kids is just as important (if not more so) as getting through to the parents who put their kids kids into these places. Rock on, Goatie!  :lol:
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Offline Rusty Goat

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« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2007, 07:26:29 PM »
Ok, I'll give one back for the heavy reply. I guess it was late or maybe lack of sleep or something in the water. I've extended an olive branch to the "ghost" on more than one occasion, not really being sure as to why there's so much bitterness between us. Seems like many years ago, I PO'd some people who never told me I PO'd them off, you know, to my face or something to that effect like a phone call or email or whatever. It's a mystery that only the "ghost" can solve. She has all the answers.
anyways,
Riddile violated my and my sons' civil rights plain and simple. Do people really think that he would listen if he had screwed over so many kids? He's guilty. He got away with a crapload of crimes. He aint innocent and all that "oblivious to the abuse" line I hear from folks. He thinks we deserved all the abuse we got. He's very proud of his work at straight inc. He even got an award from the White House for it.  You know,  "ghost" doesn't have copies of the email exchanges I've had over the YEARS with Riddile, so maybe she ought to see them. And besides, what difference does it make how "I go about it" if these people will NEVER acknowledge their responsibility in abusing us and violating rights, etc... ? If other ideas are better, then go for it, time's a wastin...
So whoever's pissed off at me for whatever reasons, let me know or forever hold your piece. I'd love to get along with folks if it's possible, and that includes the "ghost"  :wink:

RG
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2007, 11:02:27 PM »
Hmm.. I think this thing about Dr. Riddile being "oblivious" may have started when someone (no talking behind backs, haha) was comparing Dr. Miller Newton and Riddile. The person was expounding upon their varying levels of involvement with the beast known as group (you know, the way that Newton saw Straight as his church or something and not only took part in but relished the abuse going on in there). This person also seemed to believe that they could somehow "get through" to Mel Riddile if they could just get the airtime with him...  

Who knows whether or not Riddile would have been receptive or cooperative with this person (after all, they claimed to have known him personally before they were put in the program..etc.) But I will say let's not blame you for getting some word out there to those kids; that was a damned good thing!

PS- I think you meant peace (not piece) there... lol
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2007, 11:37:51 PM »
I'mnot  pissed off at you, Bill. I just dislike you immensely because you're constantly talking shit and starting public confrontations like this here one you're stoking right now.

Quote from: ""Rusty Goat""
You know, "ghost" doesn't have copies of the email exchanges I've had over the YEARS with Riddile, so maybe she ought to see them.


Ok, I'll get right on it! I'll just hack into your computer and read everyhing you got, ok? Or maybe you could publish those emails?

Anyway, I do think there's a difference between hands on staff and people like Riddile. I think he was among those execs for whom we had that special rule about cleaning up our language and hiding the rough stuff. I think that's because they needed certain players like him and they needed for those ones to remain clueless, just like other outsiders. I don't think he understands what he has done or what he is doing today by running his schools like Stalinist reeducation camps any more than my dad did your yours.

I don't think you guys did a bad thing at all by getting some information into the hands of his students. I hope a good many of the more serious, freedom minded ones among them will get together and publicly challenge unconstitutional, repressive school policies and practices and I hope they'll hook in with students all over the country in doing the same.

However, that doesn't describe the majority of highschool kids who will engage in something like a protest. Most of them won't crack a book or even read the student conduct code. They just like the idea of dissing an authority figure cause chicks dig it. That's what you might call an adverse side effect and I think it's worth discussing the risk/benefit ratio and other ways of communicating.

One alternative means of communication that I've tried to kick off is what I called the Cassandra Project. I think it was a pretty good idea.  

Before I got involved in investigating the Program proper, I was  involved as an armchair activist in drug policy. I was stunned, really mind-blown to find so many familiar names--all of the most notorious lunatic drug warriors--directly involved in the program, DFAF and close affiliates. I mean, I knew they were lunatics, and I'd said to myself a hundred times "these turkeys sound just like the fucking parents group!" but I was speaking rhetorically and to myself.

I tried to get Mapinc and a couple of other reform groups to make room and give some focus to DFAF and the Program and to promote our issue. I was stunned and very much demoralized to find that the fuckers got to them first; they refused, flat out, because they'd already jumped on the (coerced)" treatment, not incarceration" bandwaggon, funded and supported in large part by ASAM, on who's board sits none other than Bobby DuPont. See, a fair number of drug policy reform leaders are members of the Stepcraft coven. Seems odd, I know, but there it is.

So I'd like to, one day, see if we can organize a couple of ppl to perform mundane editorial tasks to facilitate an ongoing letter writing campaign as Mapinc has done. (Mapinc is not the same organization as MPP, they don't even like each other much, just to be perfectly clear)

It happens spontaneously sometimes, but not often enough in my view. And it's based pretty much on the Media Awareness Project. http://mapinc.org/  

It's pretty simple, really. We just agregate news itmes related to our issue, tack on contact information for the publishers (email addy or url for the editorial dept, for example) and encourage people to spot and send us those articles, read them and respond to them as the spirit moves you. Once that got going strong for mapinc, they found that they also had a stunningly comprehensive history and research resource on the whole drug war story as it evolved. I still use their archive from time to time to verify names, dates and other details when I'm composing letters or silly forum posts.

Anybody interested in discussing this or actually doing this, please take a look around their site and see what you think.

As always, an ye harm none, do as thou will. I'm nobody's leader. What does it matter to anybody if I don't jump on your train?  This isn't a competition.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2007, 06:13:07 PM »
So what the hell?

Is this thread just gonna die now?

Where the hell is that goddam rusty goat??  :rofl:
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2007, 08:16:09 PM »
Well what do you think about a letter writing campaign?  Here's the last one I wrote to the Post Gazette

Quote
Dirty secrets?
Dear Ed,
Please consider for publication:

  In today's editorial, Dirty Secrets, Scott Horton is quoted as saying "[the fourteen detainees] were tortured and mistreated, and that fact is classified secret, which just shows you the perversity in which this whole process is traveling." Please allow me to direct your attention to another dirty little open secret. Based on the little bits and pieces of information leaking out of these secret detention camps and an interested layman's understanding of thought reform techniques* I wouldn't trust anything these men have to say.

  For the past five and a half years, these men have been subjected to  sophisticated methods that in a much shorter period of time can render the subject completely unable to distinguish objective experience from indoctrination. These are not, as most people seem to believe, methods for extracting the truth out of a suspect, but of coercing tailored testimony of and even true belief  whatever falsehoods the captors dictate.

  I have good reason to believe the people surrounding the smirking chimp (ok, you should probably edit that, I understand) know full well what they are doing.** The more troubling question is why. Why would this administration want to brainwash suspected enemy combatants? I think I'll just put that one on a back shelf in my mind with other troubling questions, like how mere paper passports, all of them, could survive a fire so intense as to melt steel girders and why an alleged attack by Saudi nationals in league w/ Usama Binladen should portend attacks on first Afghanistan and then Binladen's sworn enemy, the secular Communist state of Iraq.


* Wikipedia has an excellent entry on the topic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing
** See http://thestraights.com/gop.htm

Sincerely,
Ginger McNulty
[snip contact info]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2007, 08:35:07 PM »
Well I have no right to interject as I am not involved, but the internet is for people like me who have no right to say anyhing but like to say it anyway...
 As a program survivor, what I feel is..payback is payback. Short of putting this guy in jail, or a lawsuit, public shaming is all you have.

I think handing out flyers is great. I am a few years out of highschool mysef but I know if someone handed a flyer like that to me...well it would make a difference in how I see the fella, make a difference in how my parents see the fella(assumng i had "parents as we all know thats not necessarily the case) how the teachers see him..it starts a chain reaction the monster is asked to leave his post. Or at least their is public awareness of what he is and that is a punishment in itself. It may not be the best thing but its a certainly a good thing (as martha stewart would say)

Ive often thught about huntin down the folks at cedu and doing something similar and if i was in better health and a bit braver i most certainly would. The kids that man murdered deserve recognition even if only in this inadequate form
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2007, 11:13:39 PM »
"Anybody interested in discussing this or actually doing this, please take a look around their site and see what you think.

As always, an ye harm none, do as thou will. I'm nobody's leader. What does it matter to anybody if I don't jump on your train? This isn't a competition."

For what it's worth, thank you Ginger...   :oops: I used that emoticon cuz of it's blushing characteristics,  :rofl: So anyway, I am glad that we aren't biting each other's heads off. Personally I don't believe I talk shit, but whatever, I'll keep an ear out for the manure spreader,  :rofl:

Here you go though, and whack me with a 6x6 if ya want, but, when I go to educate folks about these perpetrators of systematic child abuse for profit, in the back of my mind I always think " I wish Ginger was here". I think that comes from reading all of the writing you've done on the subject of the drug war, etc... and I get all hopeful or something. Hard to describe. When it becomes apparent that you won't be there, I become distraught to varying degrees. If this rubs off on the tones of my posts, well, I'm guilty,  :rofl: Please understand that this whole issue is starting to get OLD for me now. A long time ago I was all gung ho about taking on the whole industry, etc... Now that I've bumped heads with current program directors, gotten kids out of harms way, been sued by the owner of WWASP and won, discovered that kids really do like to learn, and a slew of other experiences some bad but far more many good involving educating the public, etc... about this issue, I still "keep the light on for ya" you know...  :rofl:  I'm not trying to force people to hop on the train, I'm just blowing the horn so loud and long that maybe people are annoyed or whatever. I've recently acquired 3 more "dependents" in my house and jeezoweezo Ginger, it's like a life changing event. Been thinkin about takin a nice relaxin vacation, hence the hootenanny comment earlier. In reality, it aint happenin. No vacation. The last thing I need is to be at odds with fellow survivors, etc. Regardless of if you jump on the train, I'll always admire your take on the industry's issues as a whole. Furthermore, you will always be welcome to at least ride along for a mile or two,  :rofl: Somewhere in the vault here are copies of those emails. If I can find them I'll see if I can get them to you somehow. Meanwhile, I'll check out the link you provided.

RG
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2007, 01:33:43 AM »
Look, that's really nice and I do appreciate the sentiment.  I probably would show up if it were a more level headed tone. Seems you're at least half going for retribution and that  turns off just the people I want to meet. I'm not interested in punishing anyone. I'm interested in identifying and bringing attention to similarities between Program philosophy and the people running our schools.

It seems to me very clear that the Program, in all of it's manifestations, is just a part of a much broader social engineering operation. It's not just happening in Mel Riddile's schools. He's a national role model.

If you really want to turn some heads, see if you can run an ad in the school newspaper soliciting information about Wilderness/TBS placements and the constitutionality of school policy. If  they turn you down  raise a stink about it on  free speech grounds and run it somewhere near the school or in a local paper or search myspace for the school name. This can work for any school and will illustrate how DFAF lobbied policies (like mandatory fulfillment of their piss fetish, zero tolerance, Peer Counseling, DARE, etc) feed the troubled parent industry, public and private. See, I strongly suspect that, because he doesn't know what he's ever done wrong, he's still doing it. Not as director of a program but by using Program placement as a means of dealing with kids who either crack up or simply reject the repression.

There are two cases of that that made the papers within the last few years. How many others didn't? People are already talking about stupid zero tolerance stories. There's usually a national headline every time there's a slow news week. The most important part of what we all know to the public at large is where these crazy ideas came from and where they're going. Honestly, if it were about what any of these people did to me and mine over 20 and 30 years ago, I wouldn't care to talk or even think much about it. I care about how they're doing things now.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2007, 01:51:27 AM »
Also, what happens around these forums is that people communicate, learn and then act. Sometimes it's people looking for insight into their crazy relatives who are about to or who have shipped off their kid. Sometimes it's funding organizations, underwriters, journalists and other types of investigators hooking up with the people they need to talk to.

I'd like for it to be a little more proactive sometimes. The Cassandra Project would be an  attempt at that. Who knows, maybe some day some retired politician who's notable for marching in lock step with DFAF will break ranks and sign as a lobbyist for our cause. Come to think of it, I bet Bob Barr knows a LOT about how all this works just from cocktail party chatter over the years. Wonder if we could solicit an opinion from him?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2007, 11:00:57 AM »
Yes, why not go for the jugular? who is the "head honcho" of the DFAF?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2007, 11:01:34 AM »
Yes, why not go for the jugular? Who is the "head honcho" of the DFAF?
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2007, 03:44:30 PM »
I suppose Mel and Betty Sembler would be the head hanchos, though Calvina Fay is the current exec director. But there's no rel jugular to go for. The trouble is that Program influence pervades public policy and accepted social practice. The people driving it don't know what they're doing, they think they're saving the world and they have broad public support in what they do.

What's needed here is a whole lot of education.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2007, 05:00:15 PM »
Quote from: ""Antigen's Ghost""
What's needed here is a whole lot of education.

Yes, along with a sprinkle of bloodshed here and there.

Come on, you know deep down you'd like to see them fuckin DIE, we all would!  :rofl:
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