Attribution, please

[Ursus]

I suppose when you think about it, there is absolutely no surprise here, but feast your rotten little hearts on this passage from Arnold S. Trebach's 'The Great Drug War', pp 65-68 (2005, Unlimited Publishing LLC; 424 pp; ISBN 1588321185):

Nevertheless, armed with that satanic-clone vision of today's "troubled teens," the Yorks in their book discarded the well-established concept they had been taught in their training as professional drug-abuse counselors and family therapists:  look for many of the roots in drug and alcohol abuse in family dysfunction.  According to the Yorks, that makes no sense today because the selfish behavior of most of these kids comes from within themselves and from the fact that they are so often "stoned."  Phyllis then told about the behavior of the kids she grew up with as a teenager in the early Fifties, when she "also felt the influence of the growing youth subculture.  But drag racing, drinking, and balling in the backseat were considered the limits of outrageous teen behavior in that decade.  Well, not exactly the limits, even for a nice Jewish girl in New York City, because, as Toughlove declares, without a hint of embarassment or regret, "When she was a teenager she smoked pot, tried cocaine, sniffed heroin, and occasionally drank."

However, Phyllis York claimed there was "a big difference" between her drug use and other shenanigans and "what is happening today."  For example (writing in the third person about Phyllis), the Yorks said, "she liked the feelings she got when she used pot and cocaine and if she were a kid today she feels that she'd abuse these chemicals."  The implication, of course, is that Ms. York somehow managed to use highly addictive illegal drugs ethically, occasionally, and responsibly!  Why cannot young people sow their wild oats in that way today and then later become more responsible citizens, even going into the youth-control business as adults?  Partly because they are more rotten than Phyllis and her friends were, but also because "at one time drugs were part of 'limit breaking' and the 'new consciousness', but as the years have passed they have simply become part of the culture."

In other words, when the Toughlove mother was a young girl, her profound deviance was much more understandable and less destructive because it was pioneering--and also because it involved greater effort in finding drugs.  The kids today are selfish satanic clones because more of them are involved in the same activities and it is easier for them to obtain drugs.  If the Yorks have demonstrated a significant difference here, I have failed to appreciate it.  Nor did my undergraduate students whom I forced to read Toughlove.  They were outraged to think that any adult would believe that it is part of the accepted culture for the majority of youth to fornicate in the backseats of cars, and also to use marijuana, cocaine, heroin, and alcohol.  I can state categorically that any teenaged boy or girl who was involved in all of those activities today would be considered a deviant by most of the young people I know.  That is why Phyllis York and her nice teenaged friends of the Fifties--held up almost as role models by the Toughlove gurus were "rotten" themselves in the eyes of many of my students.  Moreover, having personally known the teenagers of both the Fifties and the Eighties, in each case from the vantage point of an adult, my anecdotal impression is that, on the whole, I can discern no qualitative difference in the rotteness quotient of these two generations.

[Anonymous]

Seems to be a popular parenting philosophy, then and now:

"If you do half the shit I did (do), or are half as rotten as I was (am), I'm gonna kick your ass and disown you."

And thus, a huge evil industry thrives...

[Anonymous]

El Niño, in this context, attribution means attribute the source, name the author.

[Oz girl]

I am always amused by the obsession these ppl have with satan!!! i dont think there was ever a time as a youngster i misbehaved because my good friend the anti christ wanted me for a sunbeam!!!!! :rofl:  :evil:

[psy]

or like my wonderful Ma likes to blather on about recently: "... bla bla bla... i saw on the news that your generation is the most narcissistic ever.  bla bla bla, i heard it on the TV so it must be true.. bla bla bla"

I just have to roll my eyes at it sometimes...  although the last time she mentioned it, i quipped that her generation was the most judgemental ever.  ".. no it's true... the scientists reported it on the news... bla bla bla"...

Is this what I am supposed to look towards for guidance and common sense?  I am so glad i doubt everything.

[Anonymous]

Is this what I am supposed to look towards for guidance and common sense?

Try applying your steps, that might help..  

[psy]

I am always amused by the obsession these ppl have with satan!!! i dont think there was ever a time as a youngster i misbehaved because my good friend the anti christ wanted me for a sunbeam!!!!! :rofl:  :evil:

Oh the god obsession is alive and healthy in the US.  When religion and it's finicky details becomes the central focus of people's lives (and not the values it teaches)... this happens.

That isn't even to mention that the bible says jack shit about drugs, apart from endorsing pot's use in the old testament (hebrews used pot in their incense)...  and Moses talked to a burning bush...  references to the tree of life, the leaves of which will bring peace to the world...  Ya Mon!  Great persecution (prohibition?)..

Think of the 7 heads, 7 kings which ther is sometimes a "has been" eighth (g7-g8) the scarlet whore who is a city set upon many waters (signifying a city of many nations peoples)....  Washington DC: the scarlet whore of Babylon(Baghdad, Iraq), a beast with whom no nation dare make war (for who can challenge our might), center of commerce (scarlet)  It even says the whore is a city...  Whore of bablyon... anybody care to describe K street for me?  And what are they whoring for?  The writing on the head of the beast... anybody look at a map of washington DC (some really freaky geometry going on with the layout)...  George bush being a freemason etc etc etc...

I'm not saying i believe any of that.  I'm just saying, i'm surprised more Christians don't call the republicans Satan... considering the evidence at hand, and that the wolf comes in sheep's clothing... but then again, it does say in revelations that the truth is hidden from them so that prophecy will be fulfilled.  But if my interpretation is correct, we'll all soon be smoking reefer after Bablyon burns to the ground. :smokin:

No i'm not crazy and yes i am joking... though i would be kinda cool (all the politicians thrown into a flaming BBQ pit)... and we can sit around with the worlds biggest "holy-bong" watching Lon, Sembler, and company roast on the open fire.

[psy]

Is this what I am supposed to look towards for guidance and common sense?

Try applying your steps, that might help..  

I accept that I am powerless over the stupidity of others.... and probably even god can't fix that one.

[Antigen]

"[they] behave with stereotypical predictability. Like clones stamped out in some satanic laboratory, they share an underlying selfishness and similar ways of demonstrating it. "

Does any one else find it absurd that an individual post world war two baby boomer generation is calling someone else selfish? The individual that wrote this came from that generation and they are considered one of the most selfish generations in history.

Oh, it gets worse than that. I think it was Helen Petterman, Seed/Straight intake mom for years and years, but could be some other actor in the same role. Asked whether she had ever smoked pot herself, she said yes but that was different, it was the 60, she was in college, they were exploring their consciousness while we were just getting stoned.

[Antigen]

Ya know, if a few more votes would go to "make an educatied guess" it would be a much more apropos graphic.

[Antigen]

God bless you, every one!

[Nihilanthic]

I'm afraid I just had another mental outburst in my own mind...

one thought came in and stayed there.

To walk up to these people, these filthy sub-humans, and treat them how they treat their child. Overpower and terrify and hurt them, just like how they overpower and terrify and hurt those who are weaker than themselves... being tall has its advantages, doesn't it?

Too bad they have 'rights' whereas chattel property that comes out of the wifes vagina doesn't until they're old enough to pay taxes and die in Iraq, right?  :roll:

I should make a "parent camp"... everyone on fornits is invited to be on staff :em:

[Anonymous]

Here's more fun facts about the Yorks and their nurturing parenting philosophy of "tough love" (yes, also the title of the book):

Its authors, 45-year-old Phyllis York and her 53-year-old husband, David, were counselors by profession. But their own children -- whom they described as "rotten" -- taught them that psychological counseling "only prolonged the problems by looking for the causes in the family's behavior." A child's rotten behavior was exclusively the child's fault, they wrote, and the most appropriate response was banishment. The Yorks' crowning achievement of "tough love," as they tell it, was refusing to post bail for their teenage daughter when she was arrested for drug possession just before Christmas. When their other daughter "threatened" to post bond, Phyllis screamed at her, "I'll kill you! You will not make her bail!" And when an intern at the rehab center came to ask them to visit their troubled daughter, Phyllis slammed the door in her face.

Some children, the Yorks explained, are simply too horrible to continue nuturing. Among the two pages of banishable offenses the Yorks list are "living in filthy bedroom and saying it is their room and they can do what they want, leaving dirty dishes around and claiming that they did not do it, fighting with their siblings and saying that their brothers and sisters started it, fighting with their parents and saying that Mom or Dad was nagging them..." as well as wrecking the family car, shoplifting, and getting stoned.

"The common denominator is rotten behavior," the Yorks wrote. "Despite a wide range of geographical, social, and economic backgrounds, our young people today behave with stereotypical predictability. Like clones stamped out in some satanic laboratory, they share an underlying selfishness and similar ways of demonstrating it."

The trick is to band together with other parents -- "your support people" -- who are doing the same thing to their bad children. And most of all, stay away from doctors and therapists. "We do not support the use of counselors who 'psychologize' the problem," the Yorks wrote, "but we encourage the patronage of counselors who will cooperate with our TOUGHLOVE strategies."

This book sounds like the programmies' bible.

essentially, these are well educated child abusers. They use their education to justify  child abuse as the medical establishment of Germany justified the abuse of the Jews through their own medical knowledge. Calling your children rotten so openly- and additionally in print no less- "refusing on principle" to nurture them is just plain evil  Not to mention narcisistic to an outrageus degree. The idea that they have been bad parents, and need to modify their behavior in any way is so threatening to their sense of self that they foward the absurd notion that their kids were just born rotten. Becasue of their genes? no-no their genes! Just some wild inviisible factory!

The danger of programs isnt  that there are no qualified people in them (thouugh there are none) becasue evil can be justified by "qualified" people as well as the drop outs that work at ASR. That is why we cant tolerate torturing children wether they "deserve it" or not. Torture of children is evil despite what catchy "tough love" or "behavior modification" phrase you attatch to it.

Ill give one thing to Hitler. He lacked the perversity to ever say his persecution of the Jews was for their own good.He never demanded the Jews love him for what he did to them. He allowed them to keep their souls

[Ursus]

Ill give one thing to Hitler. He lacked the perversity to ever say his persecution of the Jews was for their own good.He never demanded the Jews love him for what he did to them. He allowed them to keep their souls

Perhaps that is because Hitler was half-Jewish.

[Oz girl]

One thing i will give to these nutso tough love merchants is that they admit to their own drug taking as kids. Go figure. Every kid i grew up with had baby boomer parents who lied through their teeth about this.

one myth that my parents tried to raise me with was that the giant and quite elaborate bong i once found in the attic (behind the simon and garfunkel records, a stack of "gentlemans magazines" from 1975 and a copy of the joy of sex) had only ever been used to smoke tobacco. There was also the occasional outrageous story about someone taking a bad trip and ending up in an asylum after walking along around the CBD only wearing a rasta hat and trying to beat up their own shadow. When as an adult i asked how I was expected to beleive such ridiculous tales i was advised that it was a given that if they tired it we would but seemed better than outright condoning drug taking. Who can fathom the logic of a parent filled with moral panic?