Author Topic: ed con warning  (Read 7458 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2007, 02:36:03 AM »
I don't know what you mean by "real" therapy. If I assume for the moment you mean more traditional therapeutic approaches -- Freudian, Jungian, CBT, etc etc etc, and if none of these traditional approaches have been helpful, are you suggesting that we give up?
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2007, 03:08:20 AM »
No, you are suggesting giving up if you'd send someone to a "duckfarm" warehousing facility with quack therapy and abusive methods to get the child out of your hair.

If you stick with the child and choose to not discontinue actual, effective treatment (which is the HARD thing to do) then no, you will not be giving up.

Care to enumerate the problems the child in question has?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2007, 03:10:58 AM »
Quote from: ""dropin""
Freudian, Jungian, CBT, etc etc etc


You're obviously a troll without even the faintest fucking clue what you're talking about.

You haven't looked into any real therapies, or you would at least know what they're called.

Try again next life.
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Offline Truth Searcher

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« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2007, 06:35:03 AM »
dropin~

In terms of real therapy, I think others are pointing out that REAL therapy has to be done willingly.  It can not be coerced.  Most programs use coercion therapy.  And while some are much more subtle than others ... unless the child desires change and desires the therapeutic process it is usually not helpful.

The program that my daughter went to did not use "coerced" therapy IE:  of the "Forum" or LGAT type.  However, in order to move up the the "level system" she was required to show therapeutic "growth".  Didn't take her long to figure out how to "work the system".

She often refers to her school as a "false environment".   When she got out, she returned to the same behaviors she had left behind.  Do you know when she turned her life around?  When SHE decided that she was tired of the same destructive behaviors.  She has explained to me in great detail (and I really get it now) that as parents we CAN NOT force change.  That is an autonomous decision made when the person desires that change.

What I suggest YOU can do in get involved in family therapy.  We learned that our daughters problems were also FAMILY problems.  IE:  I was overbearing, and overprotective.  Doesn't mean that I didn't love my daughter immensely.  I did and still do.  It just meant that part of the problem was ME.  Once we figured out that piece of the puzzle, that part got significantly better.  

I have been where you are.  My daughter had immense struggles.  She really was headed down a scary path.  I know the fear.  But, in hindsight I wish we would have kept her home.  I wish we would have struggled through that year together.

We are blessed.  We have a restored relationship.  My daughter is doing well.  But, not all "program families" are as lucky.

Please PM me if you would like to chat in more detail.
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Offline hanzomon4

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« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2007, 08:10:13 AM »
dropin, please do pm Truth Searcher don't waste your time fighting with us.  

Not that I don't welcome the discussion, but you need some help and not the debate thats sure to happen in an open discussion. with that said good luck.........
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2007, 09:31:08 PM »
Turning to torturecamps in lieu of actual treatment is like turning to a witch doctor if chemo therapy isn't working, and you have cancer.

Well, no, its more like sending your child away TO a witch doctor becuase you can't stand to watch them get worse while actual therapy isn't working yet, because you want to feel better.

 :roll: Nevermind that the witchdoctor is getting in the way of actual treatment, and isolating the child, he's potentially making it worse. Making it worse than worse than useless!

PSST... I've never, EVER heard of a destined-for-a-program-kid ending up "dead insane or in jail" becuase they weren't programmed! Hell, kids who turn 18 and end up "exit plan"-ing becuase you can't control the kid anymore end up just going out and doing their own thing.

So, why not just skip all the hassle and bullshit and emancipate the child? If that works so consitently, why not just jump to what we have at least some data of being 'effective'.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline exhausted

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« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2007, 09:41:43 AM »
Quote from: ""Truth Searcher""
dropin~
unless the child desires change and desires the therapeutic process it is usually not helpful.

What I suggest YOU can do in get involved in family therapy.  We learned that our daughters problems were also FAMILY problems.  IE:  I was overbearing, and overprotective.  Doesn't mean that I didn't love my daughter immensely.  I did and still do.  It just meant that part of the problem was ME.  Once we figured out that piece of the puzzle, that part got significantly better.  

I have been where you are.  My daughter had immense struggles.  She really was headed down a scary path.  I know the fear.  But, in hindsight I wish we would have kept her home.  I wish we would have struggled through that year together


Amen

Dropin, My story is pretty much the same, except my kid didn't go to a program & there's no family therapy, but we are getting through this now that I've realised the problem was mainly me, it's a hard thing to admit, it's also hard to knuckle down and change things, the results aren't instant & it's frustrating, but with a bit of hard work you will eventually start to see a change around with loads of steps backwards along the way, but the benefits of those baby steps that take you forward are worth every struggle & headache.

Good luck.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2007, 09:50:20 AM »
Quote from: ""exhausted""
Quote from: ""Truth Searcher""
dropin~
unless the child desires change and desires the therapeutic process it is usually not helpful.

What I suggest YOU can do in get involved in family therapy.  We learned that our daughters problems were also FAMILY problems.  IE:  I was overbearing, and overprotective.  Doesn't mean that I didn't love my daughter immensely.  I did and still do.  It just meant that part of the problem was ME.  Once we figured out that piece of the puzzle, that part got significantly better.  

I have been where you are.  My daughter had immense struggles.  She really was headed down a scary path.  I know the fear.  But, in hindsight I wish we would have kept her home.  I wish we would have struggled through that year together

Amen

Dropin, My story is pretty much the same, except my kid didn't go to a program & there's no family therapy, but we are getting through this now that I've realised the problem was mainly me, it's a hard thing to admit, it's also hard to knuckle down and change things, the results aren't instant & it's frustrating, but with a bit of hard work you will eventually start to see a change around with loads of steps backwards along the way, but the benefits of those baby steps that take you forward are worth every struggle & headache.

Good luck.


Amen to both of you.  

It all starts with the parents and failing to address this is the hallmark of programs.  They isolate and punish the kid into conformity, but they often fail immediately at home because their parents are still the same terrible ones as when they left and they have actually regressed emotionally and socially due to the constrictions at the program.  

Look at TheWho for an example.  His kid was worse when she got home than when she went in and stopped speaking to TheWho entirely and moved away from him.  

She stayed away from the very troubled parent and in a couple of years got heself together AWAY FROM HER FATHER and ALL BY HERSELF.  Go figure...
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2007, 09:58:42 AM »
Hell, it wasn't even up to me to leave the house after I finished Straight. My mom bought the tough love crap and threw me out just for hanging out with my old friends. I told her that I wasn't even getting high with them (omg, jail, insanity and death) but she turned a deaf ear. So there I was 18 yrs old with no prospects. I was lucky enough to find a place in the city to call home and get off the streets. Old friends came through for me when the 'rents didn't.
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Offline exhausted

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« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2007, 10:06:08 AM »
Sad to hear......

Mine have, and still do put me through hell, but I bore them, I brought them into this world (and have on many occassions wanted to take them out again) so it is my job to continue onwards.

No matter what's happened, the very fact we've stuck together has really made such a diference, even the son who did end up in jail twice has made a vast improvement and I'd pretty much written him off due to his age, he attends a college interview Monday - i'm having trouble believing it's true, sometimes I have to pinch myself knowing it'll all turn out okay in the end - what a ride!
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2007, 10:30:32 AM »
Quote from: ""exhausted""
Sad to hear......

Mine have, and still do put me through hell, but I bore them, I brought them into this world (and have on many occassions wanted to take them out again) so it is my job to continue onwards.

No matter what's happened, the very fact we've stuck together has really made such a diference, even the son who did end up in jail twice has made a vast improvement and I'd pretty much written him off due to his age, he attends a college interview Monday - i'm having trouble believing it's true, sometimes I have to pinch myself knowing it'll all turn out okay in the end - what a ride!

Things can come around given time and room to breathe.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2007, 02:01:36 PM »
So yet again, the best thing to do is just exit plan  :roll:
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Froderik

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« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2007, 02:05:36 PM »
Sewage under the bridge, my friend.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2007, 04:22:46 PM »
Quote from: ""dropin""
I don't know what you mean by "real" therapy. If I assume for the moment you mean more traditional therapeutic approaches -- Freudian, Jungian, CBT, etc etc etc, and if none of these traditional approaches have been helpful, are you suggesting that we give up?


I strongly suspect that you are conflating "not helpful" with "didn't get as good a result as I want or need."

Sometimes, after all you can do, there's nothing more you can do. For example, people with bipolar disorder have a 20% suicide rate untreated---but those of us who are treated still have an 11% suicide rate.

All of us will eventually get a health problem that modern medicine won't be able to fix and we'll die. That's true for every human being on the planet--you will eventually get something the doctors can't fix and you'll die.

Some of us--no matter who we are or what we do or don't have--are going to die young.

Everybody's going to die sometime, and getting out of bed each morning is a risk. This applies not just to you but to everybody you love from your cat to your child. Learn to cope with that truth--everybody else has to.

We do what we can, and we come to terms with the rest.

We don't inflict ineffective and painful quack treatments on our loved ones just because we can't face the unavoidable risk of losing them when they're sick with something.

At least, mentally stable people don't do that to our loved ones.

If you're willing to do it to yours, you need to check into some of that traditional therapy for yourself. Soonest.

Julie
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2007, 04:27:20 PM »
Gads, hit the censor bot converting "you*need*to" to "I want you to" once again.

That censor bot is a good behavior modification consequence, because it makes what you wrote sound awkward.

As with all punishments, I hate the thing.

Also as with all punishments, stubborn bitches like me revolt against it.

:lol:

Julie
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »