Barbaro (is gone)

[Anonymous]

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/story?id=2832783&page=1

[Anonymous]

Hopefully this will bring the rising cost of glue down.

[Anonymous]

They should have put him in the ground in August when they removed 80% of his OTHER rear hoof.

Greedy bastards. Just wanted to keep him alive for half million dollar stud fees.

[Anonymous]

They should have put him in the ground in August when they removed 80% of his OTHER rear hoof.

Greedy bastards. Just wanted to keep him alive for half million dollar stud fees.

I honestly don't believe this is the case.
There was real hope he would pull through; and if they were motivated by greed, they would not have spent what must be a hundred thousand plus for his care and treatment.  

As for stud fees, the thing is,  - after his injury there was no expectation he would be able to mount and breed a mare; (to much stress and strain on the rear legs) and the TBH association doesn't allow for artificial insemination. I expect he would have been gelded.

I would imagine some sperm might be collected for use with mares of other breeds that are often crossed with TB to produce warmbloods for jumping and cross country and so on; other crosses for endurance and so on; But I do a little doubt this would approach anything like the kind of fees one gets in a TB champ stallion to a  to TB mare breeding

I do not see greed as being any part of the decision making process. I think they loved their horse; I think they had a one in a million animal and they knew it. I think they wanted to give him every chance to enjoy a normal life span - because he was the kind of animal that did indeed enjoy life.

He was clearly not in much pain b/c he was eating well and looking very bright eyed and interested in what was going on around him. His demeanor was that of a content and comfortable animal.

A horse in pain - even a little pain, turns inward - will not eat and will not take any interest in anything going on around them. If in serious pain they will sweat to the point of steaming and frothing, moan and kick and stomp and grind their jaws and look very wild eyed and frightened. You can sedate them - but they will still moan and sweat and will certainly not look like happy animals.

The 80% loss of his one rear hoof wall is / was a very serious matter - And would have been, in and of itself; never mind the shattered opposite leg; but it was done b/c at that point there was still hope; and removing the hoof wall relieved the pain he was in from the foundering. In case you don't know it - the hoof wall will grown back. It was not like an amputation. It is more like having a finger nail partly removed to relieve an infection built up under it.

There was not much hope - ever - but there was some; and I applaud his owners for giving this horse a chance, however slight.
I am sure they are broken hearted. I am sure they did what was best at each step of this story.

I very much wish he had pulled through.

Of all the reforms mentioned, the one most important change would be the age they train and race these animals. They are still growing babies when they run the KY derby. A horse is still growing and maturing right up to age 4, and even 5 for the large breeds. A 2 year old is like a young teen ager. They have a lot of strength and power and a lot of youthful energy; but they are immature and easily broken. The greed comes from the age old desire to race them and win ASAP. They loose a lot of animals in the process - It has been considered an acceptable window of loss. I hope the loss of Barbaro will serve to make the industry realize real reform in needed, b/c the loss is just to great.

[Anonymous]

I stand by my first post. Barbaro was immediately worthless when his leg broke other than stud fees. If your assumption that he would likely never recover enough to mount and breed, that only gives owners paying HUGE vet bills another reason to put him down and spare him the misery he was destined to live with. The owners had no relationship or bond with Barbaro other than the value of his semen ($500,000 a shot) after he broke his leg in the Preakness.
Wealthy people dont get or stay wealthy making silly expensive decisions such as keeping a worthless horse alive spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to do so.

As for eating habits, pain medication does wonders.  But medicating consistently as Barbaro would have needed would have not only caused him to injure himself further, but horses have very delicate livers. Narcotic pain relievers kill a horse by killing their livers very quickly.

The decision to put him down was not caused by any challenge he hadnt been faced with already since August of last year.

[Anonymous]

Sorry - but your just wrong. He had foundered in his front hooves - making a difficult recovery impossible.

You are also wrong to assume the horse would have lived a life of pain, had he survived. Once recovered, there is no reason at all he would have been in pain, or had any need of pain medication. As for any concerns about organ damage, I feel confident the vets he had working with him know how to treat him with out destroying his liver. He had one of the best equine practices in the country treating him.

And it is asinine of you to stereotype "rich" people as greedy, unfeeling and calloused. Rich people love their animals too. There is no reason to believe this animal was less loved for being a race horse, than the back yard horse, owned by the five acre farm family.

They tried to save him b/c they loved him; and b/c it was clear he wanted to live.  They let him go when it was clear they could not save him.

[Anne Bonney]

The video of the Preakness was painful to watch.  Poor guy.  I know some about horses, not nearly as much as you guys but I just couldn't see how he could come back from a break like that.  I hoped, but sort of expected this.

I had to put one of my dogs down yesterday.  We adopted him about 6 months ago.  He was found wandering around by a friend of my mom's.  Pure collie, trained, absolutely sweet disposition...not like he had been abused or anything.  His gait was awkward so I knew we would be in for some medical issues, thought dysplasia maybe.  Turned out he was partially paralyzed.  Didn't really have a lot of control over his hind half.  He wasn't incontinent and he got around OK, but his legs didn't always go where he wanted them to.  Either he got out and the people couldn't find him or the medical bills got to be too much adn they dumped him.  He had no tags and no chip.  The vet check didn't reveal any visible old injury or disease.  He wasn't in pain.  He was getting along, just with a little more difficulty than my 11 year old fat golden pound puppie (my bad, she's losing weight now).  The estimated his age at around 7.  

He loved to go for walks......lived to go for walks , always had energy and was a great dog for about 5 months.  Came out on the boat with us, played with the other dogs at the beach, everyone fell in love with Bob.  Then it seemed like the nerve damage was progressing forward about a month or so ago.  He seemed to be in pain now, not constant at first but progressively worse.  The base of his tail seemed swollen and he irritated.  He became lethargic.  Lost some control of his bladder.  Tests didn't reveal anything significant, it just seemed like whatever spinal damage he had was just degenerating more and more.  He didn't want to go for walks or eat much the last two days and I just didn't want him to suffer anymore.  He was a sweet, sweet soul that will be missed even though we didn't know him for long.

Rest easy my sweet little man. :cry:

[Anonymous]

Sorry - but your just wrong. He had foundered in his front hooves - making a difficult recovery impossible.

Which began its onset  in AUGUST.

You are also wrong to assume the horse would have lived a life of pain, had he survived. Once recovered, there is no reason at all he would have been in pain, or had any need of pain medication. As for any concerns about organ damage, I feel confident the vets he had working with him know how to treat him with out destroying his liver. He had one of the best equine practices in the country treating him.

The likelihood that this horse or ANY horse with 2 major and 18 minor leg fractures living without pain is so slim its foolish to assume otherwise, which is exactly why horses, including Barbaro are dispatched with such injuries...eventually
You assume for some reason that recovery was anything more than a gamble.  

And it is asinine of you to stereotype "rich" people as greedy, unfeeling and calloused. Rich people love their animals too. There is no reason to believe this animal was less loved for being a race horse, than the back yard horse, owned by the five acre farm family.

Whats truly asinine is for you to ignore fact and assume I stereotype anyone. Its a Fact, Barbaros owners had NO relationship or bond with him. None. What would motivate them to attempt to keep him alive with the astronomical medical bills?
Two things:
One----a $500k payday per stud service.
Two----BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS, animal rights groups, PETA and all the other fucking retarded ass wipes that make life just a little more miserable for humans.

I hardly think I stereotype anyone especially the wealthy,  and I back that up with my own monetarily privileged status. But to assume the wealthy owners had any motivation to keep Barbaro alive other than for the above purpose is quite asinine itself.

They tried to save him b/c they loved him; and b/c it was clear he wanted to live.  They let him go when it was clear they could not save him.

"They" loved him? Sorry, too much evidence to suggest otherwise.
 He wanted to live?

Are you the horse whisperer?

Follow up with a rebuttal supported by fact rather than sentiment, or dont bother please.

[Anonymous]

Yep. PETA has had this under their microscope since day one.

Keeping Barbaro alive worked in favor of the breeder owner for a short time by allowing Barbaro to slip from the front page,  but even PETA spokespeople have said he should have been put down after the "experimental" surgery showed no sing of long term benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anne - so sorry about your dog.  That is always such a difficult decision.  I'm glad he found you to make his life happier and more comfortable as his disease progressed; and to provide him with that final kindness.

Now - other guest - tell me what makes you so sure the horse wanted to die?

I base my opinion on the various tapes viewable on the web site, showing a horse interested in what was going on around him, with a bright, clear, and alert eye; ears in an attentive position, eating his hay or grass with much enthusiasm - like any other happy horse. It doesn't take a horse whisper to know this indicates a horse who is enjoying his life. Or maybe it dose. . .

The laminitis in his front hooves did not begin until just before they put him down. Not last August - but last week.  

Judging from the tape of his last day it was time to let him go. He was lethargic and withdrawn. His ears where back, and still,  in an equine expression of "who cares" ; his eyes unfocused and dull, and his ribs were showing a bit to much; indicating he was off his feed for the past few days. All this indicates the presence of  pain, which  they always promised they would not make him endure; and they kept their promise.

///The likelihood that this horse or ANY horse with 2 major and 18 minor leg fractures living without pain is so slim its foolish to assume otherwise, ///

Are you a vet? His equine vet team disagreed with you. They thought it was possible; and judging from his alert and happy attitude during the ensuing weeks, I think they were right.

///which is exactly why horses, including Barbaro are dispatched with such injuries..///

No - it is the great cost of the required care, coupled with the slim chance of success.

The original break was catastrophic; and there is no argument the average horse would have been immediately put down. But this horse had owners who could afford to spend the thousands of dollars required to try and save him.  Far from being a greedy gesture, this was a generous and optimistic attempt at healing.

///You assume for some reason that recovery was anything more than a gamble. ///

No - I am well aware it was a huge gamble.
Given this fact, had they been as detached as you suggest, the common sense thing to do from a financial stand point, was put him down immediately. There was never much chance he would get though the healing process with out what happened, happening.  It was always a slim hope. They spent a king's ransome on a gamble with odds it would take a near miracle to beat. He is no doubt insured and they would have gotten the insurance with out having to spend all that money trying to save him - which from a unemotional and detached POV was the smart thing to do.

///Its a Fact, Barbaros owners had NO relationship or bond with him. None.///

How can you say it is a fact they didn't care anything for their horse?  How? You know these people do you? You part of this horse's team? You his trainer or his groom or his jockey or his vet? You play bridge with the owners? Golf maybe? You know for a fact they have no feelings for this beautiful, intelligent, champion they were so privileged to own?

What ever the case with the owners - People loved this horse. People wanted him to live, if he could live free of pain - and his vet's thought he could. People hoped so - and people are very sad it wasn't to be.

Other people feel trying to save him was wrong.

I am in the first group. You, the second. I doubt we can ever see eye to eye on this.

[Anne Bonney]

Anne - so sorry about your dog.  That is always such a difficult decision.  I'm glad he found you to make his life happier and more comfortable as his disease progressed; and to provide him with that final kindness.

Thanks, it really was hard.  I mean I've had to face this situation before but the animals were elderly and I had seen it coming for a long time.  I had only had Bob about 6 months or so.  Maybe I should have seen it.  Who in their right mind adopts a partially paralyzed dog?  He just broke my heart with how sweet and gentle and alone he was.  I really thought maybe we could give him a few years even with the spinal damage....I can work with that.  Guess I just got my hopes up before I really had an idea of what was going on.

But you're right.  It feels good that I gave him a few months of living like a king and he didn't die alone and in pain.

[Anonymous]

Yes, youre in the first group, the emotional think with your heart instead of your head group.

Barbaro spent 3 years of his life in Maryland. The owners lived in Pennsylvania. The were also the breeders and own many more horses than Barbaro.

He was not kept alive for any one reason more than he was kept alive for the potential super-horse gene to be passed on.


You claim that Barbaro showed signs of a desire to live.
Pure speculation. Especially when Bararo was sedated dozens of times, doped up on painkillers,  confined to an ICU stall more than half the time he spent after the injury, and was allowed to graze outdoors ONCE.

Keeping Barbaro alive was an investment seeking monetary gain.
The owners claimed they owed every effort to Barbaros fans who sent thousands of get well cards, flowers and well wishes.

To kill him during that time would have broken many many hearts. But would have been the humane thing to do considering not only the nature of the injuries and unlikelihood of recovery, but because Barbaro was bred and trained for steam-line speed,   NOT stamina and endurance which is required of any horse to survive even an injury half the magnitude of his own.



Assume your claim is true, that the owners were prompted by a similar bleeding heart level of care as your own. They are experienced breeder and trainers. If they were concerned for Barbaros best interest, they would have put a fucking bullet in his head and spared him the misery.
Period.

[Anonymous]

Yes, youre in the first group, the emotional think with your heart instead of your head group.

Barbaro spent 3 years of his life in Maryland. The owners lived in Pennsylvania. The were also the breeders and own many more horses than Barbaro.

He was not kept alive for any one reason more than he was kept alive for the potential super-horse gene to be passed on.


You claim that Barbaro showed signs of a desire to live.
Pure speculation. Especially when Bararo was sedated dozens of times, doped up on painkillers,  confined to an ICU stall more than half the time he spent after the injury, and was allowed to graze outdoors ONCE.

Keeping Barbaro alive was an investment seeking monetary gain.
The owners claimed they owed every effort to Barbaros fans who sent thousands of get well cards, flowers and well wishes.

To kill him during that time would have broken many many hearts. But would have been the humane thing to do considering not only the nature of the injuries and unlikelihood of recovery, but because Barbaro was bred and trained for steam-line speed,   NOT stamina and endurance which is required of any horse to survive even an injury half the magnitude of his own.



Assume your claim is true, that the owners were prompted by a similar bleeding heart level of care as your own. They are experienced breeder and trainers. If they were concerned for Barbaros best interest, they would have put a fucking bullet in his head and spared him the misery.
Period.

[Anonymous]

///Yes, youre in the first group, the emotional think with your heart instead of your head group. ///

Well, this is the first time in my life I have been accused of being led by my emotions. I am usually accused of being unemotional and logical to a fault. Those who have been exasperated with me have on occasion exclaimed I am Spock like. Your just like Mr Spock! Your worse than Mr Spock! Arguing with you is like arguing with Mr Spock! To which I have responded along the lines of:  So - making an argument based on Logic is a bad thing? At which point they often melt down into an emotional sputtering of curses about how hard headed and difficult I am.

As for Barbaro's fate - It would have been humane to euthanize him when he broke his leg. But it wasn't inhumane to try and save him. Nor was the decision to try, based on greed. The logical consideration of all the facts leads me to this conclusion.

You seem to be saying the owners home address not being on the farm where the horse was kept, means they couldn't have any real affection for him. And yet, people who have never laid eyes on him in the flesh; never rubbed his neck, or scratched his ears, or fed him a peppermint, loved him. Just as crowds of people who never met Secretariat, or Ruffian, or Phar Lap, or Seabiscut, loved them.  So, how is it that the owners home address excludes them from having any affection for their horse?

There was nothing about Barbaro's appearance, or demeanor, that indicated he was miserable, or doped up - until the last - and at that point they did the right thing.

If you want to talk about greed, and the harm done to horses as a result, there are many topics worth consideration. I simply think it is unjust to accuse this family of such motivation in the attempt to heal Barbaro.