Inside the head of a shithead parent

[TheWho]

Who, don't spin the data.
1 in 1,153 deaths at programs. (15,000 participants, 13 deaths)
1 in 1,000,000 at public schools. (52,000,000 kids. 52 deaths)

I seriously doubt at this point that you are a parent and ever had a kid at ASR, and instead are an Aspen spinster. Is your story anywhere else on the internet? Why don't you post at ST?

Deborah,  nobody is spinning the data, when we went thru this last year we didnt find any Homicides occurring at a TBS during that time period.  We are not comparing deaths, we were comparing Homicides.

[TheWho]

Who, don't spin the data.
1 in 1,153 deaths at programs. (15,000 participants, 13 deaths)
1 in 1,000,000 at public schools. (52,000,000 kids. 52 deaths)

I seriously doubt at this point that you are a parent and ever had a kid at ASR, and instead are an Aspen spinster. Is your story anywhere else on the internet? Why don't you post at ST?

There have also been at least 3 suicides i can count

1 at cedu in 1997?
1 at spring creek lodge
1 at TB. Apparently the towel that was used to mop up the blood was recycled for the other kids to use. Good to see wwasp are environmentalists!!!
Any more that people know of that who has forgotten?

I agree, I am not disputing that kids don?t take their own lives.  This is going to happen everywhere, at home, school work,TBS's etc. What we were looking at was a comparison of a specific time period, as a start, to look at rates in the public sector vs TBS's.
Based on the population of TBS's and that the population of kids in TBS's are more at risk  I would expect TBS to have a higher rate, but we didn?t see this.

[TheWho]

ALthough not "Scientific" one might want to count suicides after kids leave. the flag at our faacility was always half mass because of "GRaduates" who dedcided to kill themselves. its really sad. maybe these kids wouldnt have done it if they werent mindfucked? maybe they wouldnt have done it if they got proper treatment and help instead of confrontation? who knows... but for whatever reason, there sure is a lot of self imposed death and pain around this industry, it might be hidden but you dig deep enough youll find that well of boiling red.. dont worry.

Thats a good point.... if we could get the same data in the public sector it would make an interesting comparision.

[RobertBruce]

Sigh. Allright Cindy, I'll go get the date again, I guess you enjoy being made the fool after all.

To set the stage for those just joining us, Cindy found some figures detailing the amount of deaths in public schools between May of 2000 to June of 2001. He claimed (without checking but when does he ever) that there had been only one death during that period at the TBS's (He originally claimed that there had only been one suicide in all TBS's within a 30 year period, but then tried to take it back.) Since there are only 30,000 kids in public schools  versus 52,000,000 kids in public schools the ratio for deaths was higher in the public school and thus this proved that TBS's are safer. Yesterday in ridiculing one of his pointless analogies I made mention that kids arent typically murdered in baseball camp, happens in TBS's all the time. He doubted this claim.

He's about to put to shame once again.

[TheWho]

Maybe they would have done it sooner?
A regular boarding school in Texas had three suicides in 2 years.  A community in Plano, Texas had about 7 suicides over a couple of years- public school kids.

At least compare the population sizes between the two schools. Don't be a "WHO"!

TSW, the population sizes were listed above the summaries for each comparison.  You will notice that rates were being compared (not just the totals).  Totals/Population size will give you the rate.  I underlined them for you below:

Its data TSW, don?t shoot the messenger !!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time frame: July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 (52,000,000 students)

Public Schools:

At School --- 21 school associated Deaths (16 Homicides .00003%, 6 suicides .000012%)

Away from school (2,124 Homicides 0.0041%, 1,922 Suicides 0.0037%)


And estimated a population of 30,000 kids.

So At TBS?s the results would be:

At School --- 0 (0 Homicides, 0 suicide)

Away from School ? 1 (0 Homicides 0%, 1 Suicide 0.0033%)

So from a TBS vs National average the TBS?s had much lower rates of Suicides and Homicides for the same time period ?at school? and about the same ?away from school.?

[RobertBruce]

I'll give him a chance


Cindy where are you getting the figure of one TBS death in that time period?

[Deborah]

Maybe they would have done it sooner?
A regular boarding school in Texas had three suicides in 2 years.  A community in Plano, Texas had about 7 suicides over a couple of years- public school kids.

Karen, teen suicide has been declining for a decade. Why would you bring up suicides that happened in 1983, before the decline?

[Charly]

I guess it just struck me because I lived in the area.  The Austin, TX suicides were in the 2000 time frame.  Also, there were a few in Dallas in 2003.  The rates may be declining, but it is still something that concerns me a lot.

[Deborah]

What "we" found Who, was this....

there were 32 school-associated violent deaths (table 1.1). Of these violent deaths, 24 were homicides and 8 were suicides. Sixteen of the homicides and 6 of the suicides were of school-aged youth (ages 5-19) at school (figure 1.1 and table 1.1). Combined, this translates into less than 1 homicide or suicide of a school-aged youth at school per million students enrolled during the 1999-2000 school year.
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/crime03/1.asp

There were 22. 16 + 6
Twenty-two H/S out of 52,000,000 kids.
That's 1 in 2,363

Only 5 more than occured in the industry.

1 in 1,154 deaths in programs.
~~

Then your argument became that the preventable deaths in programs weren't 'homicides' because no one was charged in those deaths.

[RobertBruce]

Of course they arent Deborah, don't be stupid. If you kill someone and get away with it isn't murder, it's an accident! The best way to manipulate that is to claim that the little bastard died of some disease he never actually had (this can usually best be done by hiring your own ME), you'll also need to plan on suing the parents, make sure they never talk about it. Afterall you cant have these bad parents who raised a shitty kid going around spreading nasty rumors about us. Silly disgruntled parents.

[Troll Control]

I hate to see this bologna spun up again by The Who.  The Who has not the slightest clue as to what represents valid data, nor the statistical regression or significance of same.  It's pointless to argue a point that is not understood by one of the debaters.  The Who does not understand this material and therefore cannot form a logical conclusion based thereupon.  It's fruitless.

Also, The Who's representations of "zero homicides and one suicide" at TBS's is completely false.  One needs to look no further than ISACCORP.org's list of dead kids.  That destroys the premise of The Who's argument and therefor invalidates any conclusion based upon the faulty data.

Remember, this is the same guy who stated that there are "10,000 practicing psychologists" in the US of A and that the "vast majority" of them refer to TBS's.  Now, this is ridiculous on a copuple of levels.  One, there are over one hundred thousand practicing psychologists curently working in the US of A and it is well-known that only a tiny fraction thereof refer to "TBS," "EG" or "BM" facilities.

The Who is a person who likes to argue for arguments sake, not for clarification of data or edificatiopn of the reader.  Just keep that in mind when you deal with him - he's oftentimes nonsensical, especially with "facts and figures."

[RobertBruce]

No different than the time he claimed HLA not having a school nurse wasnt a problem. This guy is an idiot.

[Troll Control]

You say "idiot."  I say "nonsensical."  The point is the same: The Who is so ignorant that he's too ignorant to know he ignorant.

Debating someone like this is like taking on a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest.

[TheWho]

What "we" found Who, was this....

there were 32 school-associated violent deaths (table 1.1). Of these violent deaths, 24 were homicides and 8 were suicides. Sixteen of the homicides and 6 of the suicides were of school-aged youth (ages 5-19) at school (figure 1.1 and table 1.1). Combined, this translates into less than 1 homicide or suicide of a school-aged youth at school per million students enrolled during the 1999-2000 school year.
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/crime03/1.asp

There were 22. 16 + 6
Twenty-two H/S out of 52,000,000 kids.
That's 1 in 2,363

Only 5 more than occured in the industry.

1 in 1,154 deaths in programs.
~~

Then your argument became that the preventable deaths in programs weren't 'homicides' because no one was charged in those deaths.

Exactly,  I think where we ended up was there was no data in the public school system for ?preventable Deaths? to compare to.  They needed to be classified as ?Homicides? or ?Suicides? (for this study).
The rate for preventable deaths may well be far greater in TBS than in public schools but the data isn?t available to compare.
So it wouldn?t be accurate to compare total deaths in programs to just homicides and suicides in industry.  So we only had 1 suicide that we could add to the population for comparison.

[Troll Control]

See post two positions above.  More bologna.

With TheWho, a piece of cheese and two pieces of bread, one could make a Guiness world record bologna sandwich.

He stacks it higher and higher as he goes...