Inside the head of a shithead parent

[Nihilanthic]

Yet they are there now.

And you put your kid in a program without knowing everything about it in the first hand... we still don't know much.

Except for what is corroborated by tracing names and survivor testimony painting them to be BM warehouses that use LGAT methods...

so wtf?

[RobertBruce]

No, wrong again Bob..... these are all the accepted rulings by judges (not myself).

Cindy can you provide a link showing a ruling by a judge that no kid died in the private theraputic sector between June of 2000 and July of 2001?

[RobertBruce]

Thanks Niles, I have been trying to get this thru to the knuckle head for hours. Sometimes it takes an outside view to clarify things. We need to use the same criteria the NCSE uses when determining Suicide and Homicides.

But we are. See Cindy the way it works is when one person takes another persons life its called murder, now are there different degrees of murder? Absolutely, but the persons life was still taken. Unless of course you have another explination as to how these kids died?

[RobertBruce]

Now here's something interesting:

In this indicator, a school-associated violent death is a homicide, suicide, legal intervention (involving a law enforcement officer), or unintentional firearm-related death in which the fatal injury occurred on the campus

I wonder if these places would consider restraints "legal intervention"?

[Nihilanthic]

Considering the restraint is illegal, I'd say its an illegal intervention.

[TheWho]

Considering the restraint is illegal, I'd say its an illegal intervention.

If we can get the NCES to include these then we can also.  We would have something to compare it to.

[TheWho]

Thanks Niles, I have been trying to get this thru to the knuckle head for hours. Sometimes it takes an outside view to clarify things. We need to use the same criteria the NCSE uses when determining Suicide and Homicides.

But we are. See Cindy the way it works is when one person takes another persons life its called murder, now are there different degrees of murder? Absolutely, but the persons life was still taken. Unless of course you have another explination as to how these kids died?

Yes but see in the public sector they have strict rules on how events are classified so that they can be measured.  If one state includes "accidental death"  as homicides and another doesnt it would never work.  The parameters need to be clear and the same for all, what ever the court decision is that is what they go with.

[RobertBruce]

So then so far we have the following:

Candace Newmaker

10 years old
4/18/2000 Evergreen Attachment Center

Jerry McLaurin 14 years old  

11/2/99

New Horizons Ranch Restraint

Joshua Sharpe 17 years old  12/28/99
Wisconsin Treatment Center Restraint

Michael Ibarra-Wiltsie 12 years old  2/5/2000 Eckert Youth Alternatives Asphyxia -- Restraint  sat on by 320 pound counselor.
 

Randy Steele 9 years old
2/6/2000 Laurel Ridge Restraint...in the scuffle he vomited then stopped breathing.  After reviving he was transferred to a hospital where he died the next day.  Had been
restrained 25 times in 28 days prior to death.

Sabrina E. Day 15 years old
2/10/2000
North Carolina Group Home
Restraint

Willie Wright 9 years old  
2/4/2000
Southwest Mental Health Stopped breathing while in restraint


There's a good start for you Cindy. Spin away.

[RobertBruce]

Considering the restraint is illegal, I'd say its an illegal intervention.

If the restraint is illegal then the kids were murdered. If they are legal than it is a legal intervention no different than whats included in the criteria for deaths of kids in public schools.

[RobertBruce]

If we can get the NCES to include these then we can also. We would have something to compare it to.

Cindy how many examples do you think you'll find of school staff members killing their students?

[TheWho]

Ha,Ha,Ha,  Great bob -- but look at the criteria, if they fit add them.  The ones you listed do not.......  you are funny.  It is so easy...Homicide is defined and so is Suicide.  You can say 100 kids died as a result of Homicides but at some point y0u need to produce the evidence.  Niles sees it... why cant you.

Its embarrassing, its like being at the store and you walk up to the counter and the guy says it comes to $5.00 and you keep throwing a buck on the counter.  and this continues over and over.  Its really simple, just look at the parameters.......

Here take a look again:

So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)

We have this data:

July 1, 1999 thru June 2000  
School aged children

Outside a TBS:
There where 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides
Inside a TBS
There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.

[RobertBruce]

Yes but see in the public sector they have strict rules on how events are classified so that they can be measured. If one state includes "accidental death" as homicides and another doesnt it would never work. The parameters need to be clear and the same for all, what ever the court decision is that is what they go with.

I love how you couldnt work up the courage to answer the question. Typical. If these kids werent murdered how did they die? Also if a child was in your care and they died in the same manner would you be charged with a crime? The fact that these things arent ruled as homicides is part of the problem, these schools self regulate. Whenever a kid dies they do everything they can to sweep it under the rug including suing parents to keep them silent, they chalk up the deaths to some nonsense by bringing in their own M.E. . Ive provided you examples of this, let me know if need them again.

[TheWho]

If we can get the NCES to include these then we can also. We would have something to compare it to.

Cindy how many examples do you think you'll find of school staff members killing their students?

Maybe not many, how many gang related deaths occur at a TBS?

[Nihilanthic]

Ha,Ha,Ha,  Great bob -- but look at the criteria, if they fit add them.  The ones you listed do not.......  you are funny.  It is so easy...Homicide is defined and so is Suicide.  You can say 100 kids died as a result of Homicides but at some point y0u need to produce the evidence.  Niles sees it... why cant you.

Its embarrassing, its like being at the store and you walk up to the counter and the guy says it comes to $5.00 and you keep throwing a buck on the counter.  and this continues over and over.  Its really simple, just look at the parameters.......

Here take a look again:

So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)

We have this data:

July 1, 1999 thru June 2000  
School aged children

Outside a TBS:
There where 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides
Inside a TBS
There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.

So?

Programs should have trained experts to prevent stuff from happening, yet the suicide rate sure is higher in a TBS than the TEEN SUICIDE RATE, PERIOD. Not in school, the TEEN suicide rate, period, for all teens.

Oh well.

[TheWho]

Yes but see in the public sector they have strict rules on how events are classified so that they can be measured. If one state includes "accidental death" as homicides and another doesnt it would never work. The parameters need to be clear and the same for all, what ever the court decision is that is what they go with.

I love how you couldnt work up the courage to answer the question. Typical. If these kids werent murdered how did they die? Also if a child was in your care and they died in the same manner would you be charged with a crime? The fact that these things arent ruled as homicides is part of the problem, these schools self regulate. Whenever a kid dies they do everything they can to sweep it under the rug including suing parents to keep them silent, they chalk up the deaths to some nonsense by bringing in their own M.E. . Ive provided you examples of this, let me know if need them again.

Bob!!  Ha,Ha,....look at the judges ruling.. thats what they get paid to do.  That what the NCES does