Author Topic: Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth  (Read 30997 times)

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Offline Deborah

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #120 on: January 19, 2005, 12:20:00 PM »
I'm a Cross Creek supporter. Deceive. no...

Yeh.

11 Aug 03
I can't judge WWASPS, but from what I'm learning here, it requires a lot more than believing what's on the surface. This could be interesting...bring it on!

"I've been accused of being a WWASP supporter. I just like to hear real stories from real people and tell it like I see it."

"Deborah - read anything into it that fits. I was neutral. I'm still not a WWASPS supporter, but I see their credibility and integrity far exceeds anything I'm reading on this forum. My neutrality has shifted."

"In answer to your inquiry about the satisfaction rate - what does that have to do with me? I don't think unless I'm a parent, graduate, employee or PR that information would be available to me."
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline BuzzKill

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #121 on: January 19, 2005, 12:20:00 PM »
Betsy, I have avoided responding to you because you are so obviously drunk on the Kool Aid; but I am going to go ahead and jump in here.
Spots is correct on the visitation. It is not allowed on the lower levels - and it matters not how long the kid is on the lower levels. When I was on the BBS it was not uncommon for a parent to lament their son or daughter had been on level one or two a year - and when will they get with it and start working their program so the family can visit? The advice is, don't worry about it, Trust the program (I have been told they have now changed this to trust the process; same thing) when they want to see you they will work the program and until then, a visit will just set them back; start them manipulating. If a parent gets uneasy with this and insist on a visit - they are told to pull. Its get with the program or get out. You trust the program or you leave the program. There is no in between. Lots of program parents have gone a year and not laid eyes on their kid. Not even had a phone call. Because the kid isn't working their program and has remained on a lower level. This is not unusual. If you say different, you are a liar.
As for the mail being censored - you might be truly ignorant of this - but the fact is, it is censored. There are plenty of accounts by kids who report not all their mail got through; that they were "consequenced" because of something they wrote; and that staff routinely alters the email. Staff have admitted this. I can personally tell you several important letters written by my son never got through; and his email was routinely screened and on occasion not sent at all. It was an odd thing with the email. . . After I had pulled him, weeks later, I got some email he had written in the program. It had been written long before, and never sent - until then. Had to do with a serious bout of illness, and some shots they gave him. To this day, I don't know if someone goofed and accidentally sent it; or if the family rep decided since he was already gone, maybe I ought to see it after all. But what is beyond doubt: It was held and not sent when written, and I suspect b/c it would have been something they didn't want me asking about. As the whole of the email was about this disturbing episode, it couldn't easily be altered; so they just didn't send it. That much is clear.
So yes Betsy - they do censor and alter the mail.
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Offline chi3

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #122 on: January 19, 2005, 04:41:00 PM »
Betsy,

YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT! I know for a fact that what Buzzkill is saying is absolutely true!!!! How do I know this? My child is in a wwasp school at this very minute!If she writes negative things, even just saying she's tired of this place and wants to come home, she gets a correction. In case you don't know, that means a loss of apprx. 50 pts. She hasn't written anything too bad, and I know she wants to. She is my child after all. Plus, you just try to go see a child there! No damn way! If you do, you are asked to leave the program because you are not following the "program." Yes, it's still referred to as the "program." We don't get any e-mail from our child. The staff e-mails us brief information, but nothing deep. We were totally misled about this whole program. We were told that we could speak w/ her in the first couple of weeks, that she needed to "settle in." Well, it's been months and months, now, so how do you explain that?????? Parents are forced to go to the seminars, or not allowed visitation. They are also, "black-balled" by the other parents and staff. As for the brainwahing, you are totally full of it there, dearie. I have met many, many staff, parents, and former students who were happy in the program. They are as "brainwashed" as any Stepford could be! I know this because I knew some of these people before they went to the seminars, and they were normal. Afterward, they didn't have an independent thought in their head. You obviously need to up-date your info, or go along back to your little stepford club.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #123 on: January 19, 2005, 06:19:00 PM »
Perrigaud - thank you for your respect! That means more than youd realize.  :grin:

I just have two things to say about the Hannibal Lecter-wannabe Anon and yourself, however.

1. Anon, I know what youre trying to do, but stop it. Doing the same crap as the seminars over a forum isnt gonna work. Its just gonna piss her off or make her feel some other negative emotion. DONT do what the damn seminars did, PLEASE.

2. Perrigaud - You seem to be thriving, in spite of the treatment you got. If anything you just fixed yourself to get out because of unpleasantness, but that means that poking you in the ear with my finger until you got so fed up you acted correctly is about as effective as a program.

I'm not here to put you down - far from it. But I've seen first hand what regressional seminars can and can not do. The few details I have seem to indicate you're just a strong person. Maybe you were able to isolate the BS from reality and fix it yourself when your mind got pried open with Gilcrease's crowbar! But thats your own human will, not something the seminars are known for doing well. You're doing well in spite of it.

 As far as the program goes... its just a regime of control. You say you went out to do stuff (after 'earning' it). Thats great. I just dont see any evidence of it. Or of a regulat education for that mater.

I would *LOVE* to see it, though! But, at any rate, WetWillyASPS calls me, I need to go pay off some Utah politicians and make my fortune!

I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Antigen

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #124 on: January 19, 2005, 07:13:00 PM »
Perri, thanks for the kudos. I agree w/ Nil, you're pretty tough. I also believe you when you say you didn't get abused. That's OK. I don't need for you to hate WWASP or anything. I didn't think I had been abused in Straight. I thought I'd ducked it. It took me a very long time and the perspective of being an adult w/ children in my care to understand some of it. I suspect, but don't know (of course), that you'll probably come to some of the same conclusions as time goes on.

I apreciate your being willing to answer our questions. Like any other topic under discussion, it's up to the reader to decide what to make of it.

Here's another. What do you think of the parents who send kids there who either are not fit for the rigors of it or who just don't have any problems serious enough to warrant that kind of program? I don't mean do you like them or not. What I'm asking is what you think makes them tick. Why do they do it? Why do they continue their support of the Program. There's one pretty well known case where, after graduation, the kid blew his brains out right in front of the mother while arguing about sending him back to the Program. That woman still thought the Program had saved her son. How do things like that happen?

Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following
pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them
general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong,
gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises
at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom.  But the
tumult soon subsides.  Time makes more converts than reason.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679433147/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Thomas Paine, Common Sense

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Offline nite owl

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #125 on: January 19, 2005, 07:24:00 PM »
I'd just like to urge the mother of the child in the WWASP program to get her out as soon as possible. They may threaten you with hidden charges for leaving early - but they wont be able to enforce it.  There's something called breach of contract. If they breach their end then you can breach yours. If they said you can talk to your child in a week and it's been months - then they are not owning up to their end of the bargain.
My suggestion as a professional myself - call CPS in the area of the facility and let them know that they are censoring your child's mail and refusing to allow any parental contact.  Demand that they place your child into protective custody as soon as possible.  Then you will not have to deal with the people at the facility.  You can also request the police to do this.  

Do not delay - your child is in danger.  If you feel that there's a problem - don't ignor it.
I believe that God gave mothers a special sixth sence when it comes to their chidren - an ability to sense when they are in danger.  If you are feeling this is the case - don't delay.  

Best wishes.

I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I'm a human being first and foremost, and as such I am for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole

--Malcolm X

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Offline Dolphin

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #126 on: January 19, 2005, 07:39:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-01-19 09:20:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"Betsy, I have avoided responding to you because you are so obviously drunk on the Kool Aid; but I am going to go ahead and jump in here.

Spots is correct on the visitation. It is not allowed on the lower levels - and it matters not how long the kid is on the lower levels. When I was on the BBS it was not uncommon for a parent to lament their son or daughter had been on level one or two a year - and when will they get with it and start working their program so the family can visit? The advice is, don't worry about it, Trust the program (I have been told they have now changed this to trust the process; same thing) when they want to see you they will work the program and until then, a visit will just set them back; start them manipulating. If a parent gets uneasy with this and insist on a visit - they are told to pull. Its get with the program or get out. You trust the program or you leave the program. There is no in between. Lots of program parents have gone a year and not laid eyes on their kid. Not even had a phone call. Because the kid isn't working their program and has remained on a lower level. This is not unusual. If you say different, you are a liar.

As for the mail being censored - you might be truly ignorant of this - but the fact is, it is censored. There are plenty of accounts by kids who report not all their mail got through; that they were "consequenced" because of something they wrote; and that staff routinely alters the email. Staff have admitted this. I can personally tell you several important letters written by my son never got through; and his email was routinely screened and on occasion not sent at all. It was an odd thing with the email. . . After I had pulled him, weeks later, I got some email he had written in the program. It had been written long before, and never sent - until then. Had to do with a serious bout of illness, and some shots they gave him. To this day, I don't know if someone goofed and accidentally sent it; or if the family rep decided since he was already gone, maybe I ought to see it after all. But what is beyond doubt: It was held and not sent when written, and I suspect b/c it would have been something they didn't want me asking about. As the whole of the email was about this disturbing episode, it couldn't easily be altered; so they just didn't send it. That much is clear.

So yes Betsy - they do censor and alter the mail."


It looks like Betsy was talking about Cross Creek.  Cross Creek does not censor mail and visitation is recommended by the therapists prior to the level status, on a regular basis.

I've been feeling out this board too, so you wanna make something of that?
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Offline Anonymous

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #127 on: January 19, 2005, 08:42:00 PM »
Betsy....any of these ring any bells with you?  

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/totalism-group-dynamics

1.   MILIEU CONTROL - Control of the Environment and Communication

The control of human communication is the most basic feature of the
thought reform environment.  This is the control of what the individual
sees, hears, reads, writes, experiences and  expresses. It goes  even
further than that,  and controls the individuals communication with
himself - his own thoughts.

4.   CULT OF CONFESSION - Reporting to leadership

     This is closely related to the demand for purity. Confession is
carried beyond the ordinary religious, legal and therapeutic expressions
to the point of becoming a cult in itself.   In totalist hands,
confession becomes a means of exploiting, rather than offering solace
for these vulnerabilities.
 
     Totalist confession is an act of self-surrender, the expression of
the merging of the individual and environment. There is a dissolution of
self, talents and money.  Conformity.

     The cult of confession has effects quite the reverse of its ideal
of total exposure;  rather than eliminating personal secrets, it
increases and intensifies them.

     The individual becomes caught up in continuous conflict over which
secrets to preserve  and which to surrender, over ways to reveal lesser
secrets can be revealed and ways to protect more important ones.  

     The cult of confession makes it virtually impossible to attain
reasonable balance between worth and humility.

6.   LOADING THE LANGUAGE - Thought terminating cliches

     Everything is compressed into brief, highly reductive,
definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorised and easily expressed.

     There are "good" terms which represents the groups ideology and
"evil" terms to represent everything outside which is to be rejected.
Totalist language is intensely divisive, all-encompassing jargon,
unmercifully judging.  To those outside the group this language is
tedious - the language of non-thought.  

     This effectively isolates members from outside world.  The only
people who understand you are other members.  Other members can tell if
you are really one of them by how you talk.  

     This narrowness of the language is constricting.  The individual is
linguistically deprived because language is central to the human
experience and his capacities for thinking and feeling are immensely
restricted.  

     While initially this loaded language can give a sense of security
to the new believer, an uneasiness develops over time.  This uneasiness
may result in a withdrawal into the system and he preaches even harder
to hide his problem and  demonstrate his loyalty.  It may also produce
an inner division and the individual will publicly give the right
performance while privately have his own thoughts.  

     Either way, his imagination becomes increasingly disassociated from
his actual life experiences and may even tend to atrophy from disuse.

 8.   DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE - Who is worthy to live

     They have the right to decide who is worthy of life and who isn't.
They also decide which history books are accurate and which are not.  
     Those in the organisation are worthy of life; those outside worthy
of death.  The outsiders can be permitted to live if they change and
become an insider. Members live in fear of being pronounced "dead".
They have a fear of annihilation or extinction. The emotional conflict
is one of "being vs nothingness".  

     Existence comes to depend upon creed (I believe, therefore I am),
upon mission (I obey, therefore I am) and beyond these, upon a sense of
total merger with the organisation.  Should he stray from the "truth"
his right to exist may be withdrawn and he is pronounced "dead".
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Offline Perrigaud

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #128 on: January 20, 2005, 03:28:00 AM »
Antigen,
  Well I really am highly against sending the kids that aren't equipped to these places. I met a few of those cases and I truly felt for those kids. That can really damage a person and it did. I wasn't shocked to know that once those kids returned they were pissed and some even severed all contact with their families. Sending a kid to a program because they are being rebellious and talking back is not ok in my book. It's like spanking your 2 year old for touching everything (the kid is just being a kid). I admit that some kids didn't need to be there. Adolescence is not a fun time. It's a stage we all go through. I hate (I never use this word cause it's so strong) that abuse and corruption exists amongst these programs. My fellow peers (for the majority) are as strong willed as I am. We often talk about how that is what kept us sane in these places. These places are a last resort and no place for a kid who is acting out a little. Parents should really stop being lazy and start using different options before sending their kids away.













[ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-20 00:29 ]
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Offline Perrigaud

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« Reply #129 on: January 20, 2005, 03:54:00 AM »
Niles,
 Well, the education is another weak point in the program. I am the type of person that learns really easily. School was a joke to tell the truth. It consisted of reading a text book, taking a multiple choice test, passing all the tests on each chapter, moving on to the next subject. Well, I can read and retain that information really easily. However, someone like my brother who requires detailed explanations, repetition, and a teacher would easily fail. They may pass the test but the information wouldn't be retained. That's harmful to them. My IQ is high but that I don't owe to the program's sorry excuse for schooling.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #130 on: January 20, 2005, 04:30:00 AM »
Yet again, Perrigaud, you 'getting' something out of this treatment is a testament to your own will, and not the program.

Its "what doesn't kill us makes us stronger".

You didnt go work out or go to a VOLUNTARY bootcamp, you basically went through a drawn out kidnapping and torture session in much less vile and intense ways.

Sure, a strong person, maybe even yourself might get kidnapped and raped, survive, and come out like "Yeah, is that all you got? I'm stronger than you!" and 'grow' from it in the sense that scarred skin gets tougher - but its not like its a good thing.

Back to education - lack of it makes you dependant on your parents and therefore the PROGRAM even more! Without an education you cant do diddly squat in this day and age except the Military. I really dont see why your parents had to shell out such insane money to get low-paid dolts to boss you around and dominate you all day and put you through kiddy classes (or make you teach yourself) and cover the rent in your private jail.

Where does that money go?

There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy.
--George Washington

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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Perrigaud

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« Reply #131 on: January 20, 2005, 07:08:00 AM »
The money (some of it) goes to the food they would buy in bulk. Also, the rest goes to their (CEO's)lavish homes. We were always wondering ourselves. We figured it went to their homes cause they sure did have some nice ones.

My whole mentality is my philosophy on how to approach situations that are out of my control. It doesn't make it right(by it I mean what the situation is). The way I figured it at that time was I could hate it and spend more time in it or I can look at it as an oppurtunity to pick up some useful things. That's what I did. I made it work for me. I'm a survivor in many ways. Survivor of the program? Sure. Survivor in life? Of course. I've been through so much in my short life span. I don't blame anything on my past. That includes all that happened before the program. My life's too short for me to go around holding grudges. I may not always forgive. But I won't dwell on it and let it consume me. Shit happens and in the end I can't change it. But I sure as hell will learn from it and use it to my advantage. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-20 04:22 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #132 on: January 20, 2005, 10:28:00 AM »
The "shit that's happening" is happening to other kids too. At this time. As we write.It continues and gets worse.

Parents are not aware they are paying for the CEO's houses. They truly believe their children are getting fed and educated with real credentialed staff.Staff who also should be properly paid.

Your attitude is why and how they are able to continue with their deceit.
 
Buying lavish houses for the Utah slobs was never my intent.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #133 on: January 20, 2005, 02:45:00 PM »
You got a fatalistic survivor mentality. Thats NOT therapeutic. It means you know how to survive trauma and come out of it okay or stronger.

That doesnt mean trauma-for-profit is ever going to be a good thing.

All it means is youre a strong person. For every person like you there are several people who were broken and destroyed, or people who just manipulated their way out playing the game right back at the program. All this has shown to be good is... you. Not what was done to or 'for' you. Although, I'm sure the program would say otherwise.

When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, "Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?"  
-- Quentin Crisp

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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Antigen

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Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth
« Reply #134 on: January 20, 2005, 10:14:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-01-20 04:08:00, Perrigaud wrote:

I may not always forgive. But I won't dwell on it and let it consume me. Shit happens and in the end I can't change it. But I sure as hell will learn from it and use it to my advantage.


Forgiveness is devine. Forgetfulness is just a mental dysfunction.  :nworthy:

Perri, I was thinking just about the same way 20 years ago. You're right, there's nothing you can do to change the past. But the future is another story. If you're really curious about where the money went, look into politics. That's where it usually lands up. And that's a matter of interest to all of us. You have your views and your experience with how these people ran a rehab. Do you think they'd do a good job at making laws?

Religion is all bunk.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes