Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth

[Anonymous]

Ok, they're negative in regards to sending kids off to programs, but that in itself is positive, I believe. Telling parents what really goes on in these places is positive.  Being a voice for the kids that are in there now and have no voice is positive.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-18 04:52:00, Perrigaud wrote:

 Once we are stable we are ok to meet up with each other. They say we shouldn't but most do anyway.

Why do they say you shouldn't even after the specified time?

[Anonymous]

Anyone seen this?  I hadn't before.

http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... tories.htm

[Antigen]

On 2005-01-18 15:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-01-18 04:52:00, Perrigaud wrote:


 Once we are stable we are ok to meet up with each other. They say we shouldn't but most do anyway.

Why do they say you shouldn't even after the specified time?"

I take that to mean that after the specified time then they do get the ok to meet up. But think about this. The other kids have to be a year out as well. How many kids are considered to be "worthy cohorts" after a year? What if you want to hook up w/ somebody who's considered out of compliance?
 

Any Irishman who doubts the reality of selective enforcement ought to take just a moment to comtemplate the etymology of the term "paddy waggon".
--Antigen

[Antigen]

On 2005-01-18 15:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Anyone seen this?  I hadn't before.



http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... tories.htm"

Interesting site! Did you wander around much?

Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/188301123X/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>George Washington

[spots]

On 2005-01-18 14:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Have you read the enrollment?  You are so quick to say things you really don't know the facts on.  Parents do not sign over there rights and yes indeed can see or speak w/ there child at anytime.

As an earlier Anonymous said, bullshit.  Double bullshit!  Our experience was EXACTLY as described earlier.  NO contact without "points" for levels, seminars, merit points.  THEN contact is monitored, child has behavior threats issued before contact.  Any attempts to phone directly to talk with a child are NOT ALLOWED until a certain level is achieved, and in our case, our child never caved enough to toe the Program line and achieve that level.  Hence, NO contact was made beyond stilted, censored emails for the entire 10 months of incarceration.  When The Program finally relented and "allowed" contact [how can a parent let a boarding school tell them they MAY NOT talk to their child for nearly a year?], it was not a fun time.  It was within a seminar setting, with each "side" sitting facing each other and discussing how much the child had/will change to fit back into the family and/or meet Program demands.

If you insist upon seeing your child "before time"?....  Some very dear friends were increasingly uneasy with their son's situation in The Program, felt they really did not know what was going on, and finally demanded to see him personally and talk about it.  The Program's response, when they simply showed up in the facility lobby?  After repeated and adamant refusals to allow seeing their son [see, "how can a school do that?", above], they were told that visiting their child before he had achieved certain parameters (4½ months without contact, in this case) would void their "warranty".  Nowhere in any contract or enrollment agreement was this stipulated.  The Program made up this rule as it went along.  The parents, threatened with a loss of warranty, a loss of a whole lot of prepaid money, and defying a bullying staff, finally agreed to simply watch him through a one-way mirror as he was brougt into the common area...an area where he had never before been allowed.  Through tears, the parents left, and have ALWAYS regretted allowing The Program to override their common sense and gut feelings.  They returned to pull their son just days later, and discovered horrors of WWASPS they child had lived through beyond their wildest imagination.

I am simply amazed at the outright lying from a self-admitted staffer at WWASPS, because every Program facility has exactly the same "not till they're ready" policy for visitation.  NO EXCEPTIONS.  How can some jerk say parents can visit whenever?  It simply is not true, and parents need to know that going in.

Who could say such a bald-faced lie?

...with out any incentives what would make a child want to move?  You know what before I do on further, I don't have time to waste with your comments that has no substance behind it besides negativism."

Perhaps the same jerk who has more errors in one paragraph of written expression than I can count on all my fingers and all my toes.  Parents, this is a staffer who you trust to guard, teach, and mentor your child? And you were worried enough about the quality of friends and cohorts at home that you sent your kid off to live with this Creton?  WWASPS is simply not to be believed, and makes an art form out of lying that will come full circle someday when their Mormon god tallies the score.

[Anonymous]

Explain the many, many programs that follow the WWASPS model?  Do the ones that PURE or "real" educational consultants refer to follow the same model?? Do they do it because it doesn't work and they want to set themselves up for failure?  No one said it works 100% of the time, but be sure that it works way more often than it doesn't, but ultimately it's up to each individual to use what they've learned or they're back to square one or worse.    

Now...on the visitation - what's all this ranting about zero contact?  I personally saw my son long before he was at Level 3.  It was therapist recommended at Cross Creek.  It IS recommended that the kid earn it, because they damn sure didn't care about contact with their parents at home. They avoided it at all costs most of the time.  It is NOT forbidden.

Cut the crap on censored letters.  No one wants to hear the facts, and it's been said many times, letters are NOT censored!

What is the agenda of some of you to keep saying these things over and over again?  Sure, feed anyone that happens on this site the cult, brainwashing, abuse, no education crap. Maybe they won't choose WWASPS, and that's okay,but it will scare the crap out of THEM to not get the help their family needs through any program when nothing they've done is helping.  Is that okay?

It's NOT wrong to ask for effective intervention - that's my experience and opinion.

B etsy

[Nihilanthic]

hrm...
"Now...on the visitation - what's all this ranting about zero contact? I personally saw my son long before he was at Level 3. It was therapist recommended at Cross Creek. It IS recommended that the kid earn it, because they damn sure didn't care about contact with their parents at home. They avoided it at all costs most of the time. It is NOT forbidden. "

Earning access to the outside world, that is isolation until you conform... lesse... if you had read anything about brainwashing youd know thats a common tactic used. Yeah, what a good way to make them 'love you' by forcing conformity or years trapped in a program.

And, what A LOVELY selfrightous attitude about how they should EARN seeing you back. You're their damned parent! You've got some serious issues if you think its okay to have your kid locked up and cut off from EVERYONE and EVERYTHING in the world, even legal representation, and have to EARN the right to see you again!

Also, about censored letters... Funny how you couldnt have just... SCANNED A UNCENSORED ONE? Wow thats so hard.

Our LEGITIMATE complaints about the abuse, secrecy, questionable methods, and political connections are still unanswered.

Theres no reform, regulation, or oversight, even still. These people wouldn't STILL say this stuff YEARS afterwards if it was untrue! Prisoners get visits, oversight, often times cameras up on the walls, lawyers, and civil rights. These kids do not.

Come on ANON, theres still no info about any actual therapy at all, just conditions requiring obedience. Everyone defers to seminars for any sort of 'therapy' which consist of nothing more than warmed over sensitivity training and psychological mindgames.

We do agree on one thing, though. It's NOT wrong to ask for effective intervention - but theres a difference between 'ask', and kidnapping and captivity for months to years in secretive programs isolated from everyone accused of brainwashing and abuse to force obedience.

Talk to antigen about how to help and get through to people without hiring kidnappers and having people terrify and soften up your kid and put them in seminars and 'restrain' them, and make them miss out on normal socialization and education opportunties for months or years of their life.

The other sad thing is a lot of the time, they're just GROWING UP. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if I went to a program for a cold, and I got out after my cold went away, the program would claim they fixed it. Coallation is not causation. Acting good enough for you so they dont have to suffer again isnot being fixed nor does it indicate a real problem in the first place!

Give us "sunshine"(oversight, reform, regulation, transparency and access to ombudsmen and lawyers. and advocatsy groups) and only send those who ACTUALLY need it to a lockup, and not those who dont, and PROVE that the methods work, and we'll shut up.

Using kidnapping, captivity, coersion and domination as a cookie cutter treatment for anything for profit, and we're gonna keep bitching at you, ANON.

You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religion. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, intelligent enough.
--Aldous Huxley, author

[Perrigaud]

That's the thing you all don't understand. No one is perfect. I know I make mistakes. The program is not a fix it all. They never told me I had to be perfect. I wasn't abused only helped. If you all want to see it as abuse then fine. In the end that "abuse" was another source that helped me find myself. Now, I'm sure this will set a lot of you off on a tangent of how it's all brainwashing bullshit. Go right ahead. I was never one to listen to what other's had to say if I truly didn't believe in that way myself.  :razz:  :razz:  :razz:

Why not communication after the specified time? The given time frame is a mere guidline. It is not an order sent from the head of the "brainwashing" WWASP. If I had decided to keep in contact the very day I graduated I could do so. But it was my discretion. Now, as for the ones that weren't doing well; I kept in contact with a couple. I don't fear that they'll bring me down with them. They are struggling. That sucks for them. But for the most part I will not put myself around people I don't respect or value. I don't want to come off as a bitch but I have no time for BS. So why would I want to be around them? I kept in contact with girls in my same state since the day we graduated. I didn't care about the whole crabs in a barrel theory.

[Anonymous]

The program is not a fix it all.

The program presents itself as a fix it all. It doesn't matter what the kid's problem is-- whether it's failing grades, drug use, psychological disorders, or not getting along with a new step-parent-- WWASP presents itself as the perfect solution to any problem.

They never told me I had to be perfect. I wasn't abused only helped. If you all want to see it as abuse then fine. In the end that "abuse" was another source that helped me find myself.

This sound so sad and pathetic. They did a good job on you, Perrigaud.

Now, I'm sure this will set a lot of you off on a tangent of how it's all brainwashing bullshit. Go right ahead. I was never one to listen to what other's had to say if I truly didn't believe in that way myself.  :razz:  :razz:  :razz:

Same goes for plenty of other people. But people will listen-- or, to put it more accurately, will be forced to listen-- when they are pressured and stressed out and worked into a frenzy and have their own sense of judgement and perception of reality constantly challenged, which is what happens 24/7 in WWASP. You are proving this time and time again in your posts. To use Jay Kay's words, the program conssits of "re-wiring" of the child's brain so that the child will become compliant with WWASP and will become convinced that they were saved by the Holy Program.

And, yes, that is considered psychological abuse. And that is what the program offers. The program is dangerous, abusive, and harmful, and must be shut down.

[Perrigaud]

blah blah blah. Same stuff I keep hearing. Rewiring. Wow, you must really be weak. Nevermind ANONYMOUS. You won't understand. Brainwashed? Ok, if that's what you want to call it. Stop with the whole black or white attitude. You are just as bad as the program. I didn't say it was a fix it all for me. Dear god are you dense. It helped me. Sorry it ruined others, sorry you're so close minded and hellbent on it being all about brainwashing. Thanks but I am not as weak as you and I do have my own mind. I'm so sick of you people saying it's all brainwash and it's evil. Sure, it helped me, I'm happy, and no it's not the only thing. Nevermind.

PS Anonymous: Wait a be predictable you dense sad excuse for an anti-advocate. Sad and pathetic? Maybe if I was one of those graduates who didn't do well. I'm a better person thanks to the program. Here's the tricky part NOT ENTIRELY TO THE PROGRAM (DO I THANK FOR MY SUCCESS) BUT THANKS FOR CONTRIBUTING. Here's some more for you to rant about: You're just upset I'm not one that encountered abuse and don't think like you at all. Sorry. Chew on that and go ahead and write about how brainwashed I am. Shut up. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-19 03:30 ][ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-19 03:36 ]

[Deborah]

Hey Betsy,
Aren't you the one who came to Fornits during the heated WWASP debate last year, and deceived readers about who you were and your intention?
Presenting yourself as a neutral, objective party. And after a week had decided that W wasn't the Evil Empire it was presented to be?
How credible is your opinion? How many free months of tuition have you received for referals?

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=10
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2737&forum=9
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2730&forum=9
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0

[Anonymous]

"blah blah blah. Same stuff I keep hearing. Rewiring. Wow, you must really be weak. Nevermind ANONYMOUS. You won't understand.

Oh, I undersand alright. I've read enough testimonies and I've talked to people who's been there but who, unlike you, managed to resist the rewiring. The program is abusive and dangerous, and that's a documented fact.

Brainwashed? Ok, if that's what you want to call it. Stop with the whole black or white attitude.

No black and white attitude here. When I first heard about the program, I listened to people like you, who thought highly of the program and talked about how it helped them. Then I started asking questions, and doing research. I'm sorry, Perrigaud, but the facts say otherwise.

You are just as bad as the program.

Oh, really?

I don't abuse children. I don't make money out of manipulating vulnerable parents and crushing the minds and spirits of children.

So, no, I'm not "as bad as the program".

I didn't say it was a fix it all for me. Dear god are you dense. It helped me. Sorry it ruined others, sorry you're so close minded and hellbent on it being all about brainwashing.

Close minded? no, hon, that would be you. Just look how extremely hostile you because when someone dares to express an opinion different from your own.

This is one of the first things that striked me as odd when I first talked to WWASPies like you: your complete inability to accept that people disagree with you.

Thanks but I am not as weak as you and I do have my own mind.

It doesn't sound like it.

I'm so sick of you people saying it's all brainwash and it's evil.

Yeah, facing the facts can be tough, eh?

PS Anonymous: Wait a be predictable you dense sad excuse for an anti-advocate.

A little tip, Perrigaud: this is not a seminar or a group session. So you can lay off the swearing and the personal attacks. I understand that that is what you're used to, after being at Casa and Cross Creek for so long, but this is the real world, and normal people don't talk like that.

Sad and pathetic? Maybe if I was one of those graduates who didn't do well. I'm a better person thanks to the program.

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that...

Here's the tricky part NOT ENTIRELY TO THE PROGRAM (DO I THANK FOR MY SUCCESS) BUT THANKS FOR CONTRIBUTING.

Well, at least you give youself some credit. That's good.

Here's some more for you to rant about: You're just upset I'm not one that encountered abuse and don't think like you at all.

I believe you've encountered abuse. The fact that you don't consider it abuse right now doesn't mean it isn't abuse.

I'm not agry because you think differently from me. I'm angry because I've been reading your posts for quite some time now, and you sound like a fairly intelligent person. And yet you spew program ideology almost non-stop. And, yes, it makes me angry to see another young person under the influence of the WWASP coercive persuasion techniques.

Sorry. Chew on that and go ahead and write about how brainwashed I am. Shut up.

Yeah, you'd like that, wouldn't you? You'd like me to shut up and you'd ISAC to shut up and you'd like Ginger to shut up and everybody who dares to criticize your beloeved program to just shut up already.

Sorry, hon. That's not going to happen. The secret is out. More and more people are finding out exactly what kind of program WWASP is. Your dear program's time is running out.

WWASP's going down.

[Perrigaud]

Yes believe what you want to. And no I actually respect Ginger and Timoclea. I even respect Niles. But you I don't. I see no validity behind what you bring up. Therefore I'll let you run your mouth. You're right I don't need to swear or even speak my mind about you. I haven't been abused. I've been helped. I'll leave it at that. Open, yes I am. If you had really been reading all of my posts as you claim to have been you'd have seen that. I don't respect ASSumptions. Why do you think that I am here. I debate, listen, form opinions, and allow for what I see fit and block out what I don't. Facts? No dear. The facts are that it helped me, that it is corrupt, that it does need improvement, that it isn't 100% a fix it all, that I and other non-program people do talk like that, and I am a better person. But unless you read my past you are going off of assumptions. Go right ahead. You're the one saying it was all brainwash and abuse and not one ounce of it was helpful. Sure. Look at me and my results. There's proof that it isn't all bad. I'll never consider it abuse. I gladly embrace anyone to express their opinions. I'll listen and have rebuttals as I see fit. Again, I do respect other's opinions along with validation. My dear program? Please, it's not mine. It's just a helping stone. Not a religion.

[Anonymous]

Deborah - Maybe I should have been clear.  I'm a Cross Creek supporter. Deceive, no. I wasn't as familiar with the other schools in the WWASPS family.  Just Feeling things out...

 I stopped posting with my name when someone decided it would be fun to use my name on immature posts.

As for the tuition - honestly - one - Despite the popular belief that we all go out and preach the program - it was a friend who was in the same place I was.  I didn't talk her into anything, she decided for herself.

B