From One Cult To Another...

[Jesus H Christ]

Damn you blew my cover.  Tell every one I am towlie too!  I am glad I never told you anything in seminar

Oh, I bet you don't even remember what you told me in seminar, Ha Ha! ::hehehmm::  ::hehehmm::  ::hehehmm::

Anything like those "red flag touches?"

  I think told you about my homo erotic thoughts during wrestling practice.

[Ursus]

Yah... Henry Milton was pretty good about encouraging those, eh?  Just what exactly is he doing in down in Florida, where Miller Newton happens to reside, of all coincidences...  Maybe they're living it up, fondling junk, in hot and steamy KissimmeeAss country... ::hehehmm::  ::hehehmm::

==========================

On a more serious note, I am returning to the comments section of Paul's YouTube video and I am reposting some of them, this time a whole block of them, in order... I was not fully able to appreciate their context until I went to the section where all 47 comments are amassed in their entirety and in chronologically order starting with the oldest.

Apparently, it was Paul who got fired from that sleazoid mind fucker JZKnight, corporation of suck-you-off 'till you've got nothing left to give.

IslesofTrees (1 week ago) Marked as spam
pavel is no longer associated with RSE
cults abound
enlightenmefree dot com
 

paulagloria (1 week ago) Marked as spam
it is true that this is old but I keep it up because it is an important part of an historical process. Don't you think?
 
IslesofTrees (1 week ago) Marked as spam
not at all. people's brains have been horribly scrambled by this woman. PTSD, split personality disorder, etc
 
paulagloria (1 week ago) Marked as spam
which woman, me? what is PTSD?[/list]
 
fufight (1 week ago) Marked as spam
jz knight made this all up.how do you feel nowadays beeing fired pavel?you still use ramthas brainwashvocabluary?
 

paulagloria (1 week ago) Marked as spam
did you know the man who started National Cash register (in 1875 or so) fired people all the time? Yet going through NCR was like business school in those days with every top CEO in the country having an NCR stint behind him.
 
fufight (1 week ago) Marked as spam
ye i know jz gives a sch...she has new students and employes every year.or is beeing fired enlightment?good for joe audry diane.......
 
paulagloria (1 week ago) Marked as spam
I appreciate your experience but want to remind you that this is a public board with many who do not have more "inside" knowledge so if you could keep in mind many who may not understand what you are saying and go more slowly and elaborate we might all benefit more. I don't know who joe or diane is....so others will also not know
 
fufight (1 week ago) Marked as spam
so you interviw this guys and belive what they say?you r not a ramster.you dont realy dont know that the head of the securityguards raped a girl after alcoholabuse in jzs school of ancient wisdom?you post joe dispenzas interview and audry wolfs.diane was the right hand of jz for years.maybe you schould get new interviews.
 
paulagloria (1 week ago) Marked as spam
so you do not see value in historical process? I'm up for new interviews. I really want to get Audrey again...you should take a look at my "Direct Personal experience with spirituality and sex pt 3" where I talk about my experience with the RSE. I was in blue college for a while until I studied with SSKS.
 
fufight (1 week ago) Marked as spam
i was there too.i never saw any of this guys doing the miracules. only hersay about it.ramtha did not get one prediction right during the 5 years i was there.ramthas teachings mostly benefitted jz financely.yes i see value in a historical prozess because it is very intresting that people get hooked with the same tactics than 30 years ago.i think the world schould know whats going on there.thank you for not deleting critical posts.
 
paulagloria (1 week ago) Marked as spam
thanks for staying connected here....no I do not delete critical posts especially when there is disagreement. did you check out the link I posted above? It takes awhile to get to the point about RSE vs my experience with Ramtha and the Great WORK. Miracles are a big deal so to continue you have to hear it (not the one of audrey sitting but me sitting near a table with red curtains behind me...) you and I have different opinions here...lets stay with this.
 
fufight (5 days ago) Marked as spam
fact is the glass is halv full or hav empty there is still the realaty of the glass.if you need to drink for spirituell insights well.. not having a hangover means you were on your way getting an alcolic.you took rams advice to drink every morning a glas of red wine and the day will be miraculess serious?[/list][/list]

[Jesus H Christ]

So what is Paul doing now if he is no longer working for Knight?  Head of School for the Bath campus?  Maybe he can use some of those "Master Skills" and fill all the first year student slots.

[Ursus]

IT'S ABOUT TIME!

http://www.enlightenmefree.com/
The Enlighten Me Free (EMF) website has been created, in part, to make public some questions regarding the authenticity of the alleged channeling of the entity "Ramtha."

We are former students of Ramtha's School of Enlightenment (RSE) from various worldwide locations who have come to seriously question whether "Ramtha" is real and whether or not the whole concept of "channeling" as it exists within the New Age movement is valid.

Our primary purpose with this website is to provide an online support community. Within it we will provide space for networking, educational information, opinion sharing, asking questions, and sharing of facts. There are also ongoing physical support meetings with L.A.R.S.E. (Life After RSE) participants. We welcome participation from people who have also been affected with doubts from experiences connected to RSE.

If you are a current, former, or prospective student of "Ramtha"; and have no doubts or issues about his "teachings", then this may not be the place for you.  The information provided on this site is the observation and/or opinion of the writers. EMF & L.A.R.S.E. are independent and have no affiliation with JZK, Inc., or Ramtha's School of Enlightenment. Please read the disclaimer page.
To contact EMF email info@enlightenmefree.com

"The truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it, ignorance my deride it, but in the end, there it is."
~Winston Churchill~

[Ursus]

http://enlightenmefree.com/trap.html
http://www.aarweb.org/[/url]

A healthy dose of doubt is the link to being free from the mind control of a such a group. Therefore, it is a sure bet that suspension of critical thinking is strongly discouraged! One may even be told that doubt will sabotage any spiritual awakening from unfolding. To a sincere student, that is frightening. So, the student self-monitors their thoughts, and keeps them in control, within the boundaries of the accepted groupthink that is prevalent. This becomes of paramount importance to a group member, as they view this abolishment of doubt as a gauge to their attainment of enlightenment.

Furthermore, while in the midst of the group consensus mindset, a student is in a highly suggestible state. Wikipedia describes this well.

"A person is deemed to be suggestible if they accept and act on suggestions by others. Clearly, everyone acts at some point in their lives by the suggestions given by someone else, but some individuals can be more suggestible than others. Television is one example of this as some individuals see dangerous acts on television and try to perform the acts themselves. This is an example of technological determinism.

A person experiencing intense emotions tends to be more receptive to ideas and therefore more suggestible. Young children are generally more suggestible than older children who are more suggestible than adults.

However, psychologists have found that individual levels of self-esteem, assertiveness, and other qualities can make some people more suggestible than others — i.e. they act on others' suggestions more of the time than other people. This has resulted in this being seen as a spectrum of suggestibility.

This has ramifications in the scientific research of hypnosis. The person under hypnosis may not actually be entering a different psychological state, but rather just acting on social pressure. It is easier for them to comply than to disobey. However, hypnosis has also helped people to deal with difficult issues, such as quitting smoking, with effects that endure even when the hypnotist is no longer present.

It is claimed that sufferers of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and Dissociative Identity Disorder are particularly suggestible. While it is true that DID sufferers tend to score to the higher end of the hypnotizability scale, there have not been enough studies done to support the claim of increased suggestibility." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggestibility

How many times have group members complied when something inside of them nagged at them, that what they were doing was wrong, or at least wrong for them ? Suggestibility has been studied and it is a reaction in the neo-cortex of the brain. The article at this website http://www.trowbridgefoundation.org/doc ... bility.htm details the process of suggestibity in a person and the outcome of what they recall, say, or respond to after being pressured from an external source. Suggestibility is not gullibility. It is the measure of intensity with which the brain and nervous system accept and respond to incoming ideas. In hypnosis both body and mind are more suggestible.

Perhaps you, the reader, can see where mind control, brainwashing, suggestibility, all fit together to gain a sincere spiritual seeker-student into the Mind Trap of such a group. It has nothing to do with intelligence, naivete, or anything of that sort.

http://www.csj.org/infoserv_articles/la ... ultsqa.htm[/url])

Mind control (also referred to as “brainwashing,” “coercive persuasion,” “thought reform,” and the “systematic manipulation of psychological and social influence”) refers to a process in which a group or individual systematically uses unethically manipulative methods to persuade others to conform to the wishes of the manipulator(s), often to the detriment of the person being manipulated.

Such methods include:

extensive control of information in order to limit alternatives from which members may make “choices”;

deception;

group pressure;

intense indoctrination into a belief system that denigrates independent critical thinking and considers the world outside the group to be threatening, evil, or gravely in error;

an insistence that members’ distress—much of which may consist of anxiety and guilt subtly induced by the group—can be relieved only by conforming to the group;

physical and/or psychological debilitation through inadequate diet or fatigue;

the induction of dissociative (trance-like) states (via the misuse of meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, and other exercises) in which attention is narrowed, suggestibility heightened, and independent critical thinking weakened;

alternation of harshness/threats and leniency/love, in order to effect compliance with the leadership’s wishes;

isolation from social supports;

and pressured public confessions.

Although the process by which cults come to exercise mind control over members is complex and varies a great deal, there appear to be three overlapping stages:

Deception
Recruits are duped into believing that the group is benevolent and will enrich their lives by, for example, advancing their spirituality or increasing their self-esteem and security. As a result of this deception and the systematic use of highly manipulative techniques of influence, recruits come to commit themselves to the group’s prescribed ways of thinking, feeling, and acting; in other words, they become members or converts.

Dependency
By gradually isolating members from outside influences, establishing unrealistically high and guilt-inducing expectations, punishing any expressions of “negativity,” and denigrating independent, critical thinking, the group causes members to become extremely dependent on the group’s compliance-oriented expressions of love and support.

Dread
Once a state of dependency is firmly established, the group’s control over members’ thoughts, feelings, and behavior is strengthened by the members’ growing dread of losing the group’s psychological support (physical threats also occur in some groups), however much it may aim at ensuring their compliance with leadership’s often debilitating demands.[/list]

Getting Sprung from the Snare

Leaving a group such as this is usually not easy. Why? Because there are "costs" associated with leaving. One can look at themselves and evaluate the mental, emotional, physical and spiritual costs of leaving. They face issues such as these and before actual leaving, a person may cling to the group and play mind games with themselves (defense mechanisms) to keep themselves from having to deal with the effects of leaving. One may justify behaviors to themselves to stay in the group, though they know they need to get out. It's necessary to face the emotional cost of exiting such a group, such as leaving friends, who will probably abandon you. Facing the psychological and emotional issues of leaving; shame, depression, isolation, sadness, guilt, anger, abandonment, betrayal, confusion, lost self-esteem. Physically, it's not unheard of for people to delay leaving a group even when they know it's over, because of the emotional impact of moving on.

* "People leave cults for a variety of reasons. After becoming aware of hypocrisy and/or corruption within the group, converts who have maintained an element of independence and some connection with their old values may simply walk out disillusioned. Other members may leave because they have become weary of a routine of proselytizing and fund-raising. Sometimes even the most dedicated members may feel so inadequate in the face of the cult’s demands that they walk away, not because they have stopped believing, but because they feel like abject failures. Still others may renounce the cult after reconnecting to old values, goals, interests, or relationships, resulting from visits with parents, talks with ex-members, or counseling.

Persons who consider leaving a group such as this, are usually pressured to stay. Some ex-members say that they spent months, even years, trying to garner the strength to walk out. Some felt so intimidated that they departed secretly.

Although most group members eventually walk out on their own, parental alarm should not be discounted. First, many, if not most, who leave cults on their own are psychologically harmed, often in ways which they do not understand. Second, some cultists never leave, and some of these are severely harmed. And third, there is no way to predict who will leave, who won’t leave, or who will be harmed."

* Excerpted from http://www.rickross.com/reference/singer/singer7.html It is suggested that you just take the time to read the entire article.

[Ursus]

So what is Paul doing now if he is no longer working for Knight?  Head of School for the Bath campus?  Maybe he can use some of those "Master Skills" and fill all the first year student slots.

Personally, I think Gail Kelly might be more suitable for -- or beneficial to -- the school in that position, but I doubt that she could stomach it.  She'd be flanked by the entire gaggle of the old guard (in mindset).

I was also wondering as to the potential impact this development might have on Vanda's comedy routine.

[Ursus]

Jeff Knight, JZ's former husband, recorded this as a warning to other RSE students in 1992.  I'm not sure about the details yet, but apparently she was totally screwing him over in a divorce proceeding at the time or shortly after this time as well.

The video was allegedly never made public, for reasons I'm not entirely clear about, and he ended up dieing in 1994 from complications due to AIDS.  This video is dedicated to his memory.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7972&hl=en

[Jesus H Christ]

So what is Paul doing now if he is no longer working for Knight?  Head of School for the Bath campus?  Maybe he can use some of those "Master Skills" and fill all the first year student slots.

Personally, I think Gail Kelly might be more suitable for -- or beneficial to -- the school in that position, but I doubt that she could stomach it.  She'd be flanked by the entire gaggle of the old guard (in mindset).

I was also wondering as to the potential impact this development might have on Vanda's comedy routine.

 
 That is not a bad idea .... so it will never happen.

  I have seen Vanda's  stuff on youtube.  She should go back to singing.  She had a beautiful voice.  Vanda and Gail were the only ones in A.S. that could sing on key consistently.  You could use Paul's voice to strip wall paper,  peel paint or turn milk sour.

[Jesus H Christ]

Jeff Knight, JZ's former husband, recorded this as a warning to other RSE students in 1992.  I'm not sure about the details yet, but apparently she was totally screwing him over in a divorce proceeding at the time or shortly after this time as well.

The video was allegedly never made public, for reasons I'm not entirely clear about, and he ended up dieing in 1994 from complications due to AIDS.  This video is dedicated to his memory.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7972&hl=en

 
I read some where that Ramtha told him to imagine his way out of AIDs
Life is but a dream but you still have them banks on the side.

[Ursus]

Jeff Knight, JZ's former husband, recorded this as a warning to other RSE students in 1992.  I'm not sure about the details yet, but apparently she was totally screwing him over in a divorce proceeding at the time or shortly after this time as well.

The video was allegedly never made public, for reasons I'm not entirely clear about, and he ended up dieing in 1994 from complications due to AIDS.  This video is dedicated to his memory.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7972&hl=en

I read some where that Ramtha told him to imagine his way out of AIDs
Life is but a dream but you still have them banks on the side.

That would not surprise me.  Certainly that vibe comes through even from Paul's video alone.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=20404&start=13

[Ursus]

Here's a video filled with numerous clips of news bits and interviews...  Jeff Knight mentions being told by Ramtha that medicine will not cure him of his HIV, only Jeff himself can do that and that Ramtha will teach him how.  I believe he learned of his HIV status in 1985.  He consequently sought little or no medical intervention to combat the disease.

Jeff Knight and JZ separated in 1988, divorced in 1989.  She had found someone else.  He remained a faithful follower of the cult despite this demotion in status, and access to Ramptha, 'till August of 1991.  This compilation of news clips was put together in 1992.  Jeff Knight died of AIDS in 1994.

This woman JZ Knight is diabolical.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 6862&hl=en

[Jesus H Christ]

I am trying to imagine a reality where the Red Sox break the 5 to 5 tie.

  Curiouser and Curiouser. Just watch a bunch of the Videos.  It is enough to make me a strict reality constructionist.  I think I am going to go to church this Sunday with some Calvinist.  I hope Paul did get another job.

 Crisp just got a single.  It is working!  Go Sox.

[Ursus]

Curiouser and Curiouser. Just watch a bunch of the Videos.  It is enough to make me a strict reality constructionist.  I think I am going to go to church this Sunday with some Calvinist.  I hope Paul did get another job.

I think your upbringing, not to mention your viciously sardonic bent, was significantly more reality-based than Paul and Vanda's.  No amount of "character education" can alter that to any measurable degree.  It is what it is.  You got lucky via your birthright.  Count your blessings.

[Ursus]

...Curiouser and Curiouser. Just watch a bunch of the Videos.

I've been working my way through the ones from that website, plus the ones linked to those... Pretty draining for me, have to stop from time to time.  But here's an oldy but goody, ha haa!  ...recognizable to anyone who's been following the business here for the past year or so...

MIND CONTROL MADE EASY
or How to Become a Cult Leader
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E

Here's another one about the manipulation of people's perceptions and sense of self.  I knew about Project Paperclip, but had forgotten about it...  This one's a bit limited in scope and very American-establishment-oriented.  In fact, mind control experiments did not start with the Nazi's, but rather much earlier... at least as far back as the issues between the Chinese Communists, Chiang Kai-Shek, and the Japanese (1920s/30s?), and I doubt very much that Hitler's vision was as consciously enacted or as global as they imply... but let me also tell you flat out that I probably know less about this than I think I do so take my political ramblings with a grain of salt...

CIA MIND CONTROL EXPERIMENTS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSOOK3tocTk

[Anonymous]

Paul is okay, out of the country, wants nothing to do with RSE and JZ Knight.

Vanda... still believes in Ramtha.