Behavioral Problems Alternatives

[psy]

Carlbrook was far preferable to the legal system.  I am very familiar with the juvie system and facilities-  it is not where you EVER want to be.
No, the ends don't justify the means.  But you have to look ahead.  You think you lose control of your kid when you send them to a program?  Try letting them get into the legal system.

The questions about coerced change?

Forgive my pushing, but what do you feel is coercion?  Is it justified to obtain a well behaved (but not truly changed) kid?  Is it preferable to address the root of the problem?

[Anonymous]

You think you lose control of your kid when you send them to a program?

It really is all about the control for you, isn't it?

How many years on this forum and you've still learned nothing?

Cripes, Exhausted got it in less than a week.

[psy]

You think you lose control of your kid when you send them to a program?  Try letting them get into the legal system.

On the contrary.  I think many parents gain far more control over their kids in program.  Does that make it right?  Does forcing a kid to behave the right way truly change his attitude, or does it merely force the kid to "act nice" while he is in the house?

[Anonymous]

Carlbrook was far preferable to the legal system.  I am very familiar with the juvie system and facilities-  it is not where you EVER want to be.

I HAVE been.  To both a program and through the legal system.  Give me the legal system ANY day.

No, the ends don't justify the means.  But you have to look ahead.  You think you lose control of your kid when you send them to a program?  Try letting them get into the legal system.

It ain't as hard as undoing the damage from a program.

[psy]

Carlbrook was far preferable to the legal system.  I am very familiar with the juvie system and facilities-  it is not where you EVER want to be.

I HAVE been.  To both a program and through the legal system.  Give me the legal system ANY day.

No, the ends don't justify the means.  But you have to look ahead.  You think you lose control of your kid when you send them to a program?  Try letting them get into the legal system.

It ain't as hard as undoing the damage from a program.

So now you've heard from three people who would have preferred the legal system.  Are you still so sure program was worth it?  Harmless?

[Anonymous]

I have been through both too and I think they are equally ridiculous. In california you don't just sit in a cell or something they have outdoor camps and shit just like casa by the sea so it really is no different. Dont fall into the trap of offering parents solutions just beause you know what doesn't work. Because there is a whole other sector of industrialized abuse being done int he name of the state and it doesn't get discussed musch around here.

[psy]

I have been through both too and I think they are equally ridiculous. In california you don't just sit in a cell or something they have outdoor camps and shit just like casa by the sea so it really is no different. Dont fall into the trap of offering parents solutions just beause you know what doesn't work. Because there is a whole other sector of industrialized abuse being done int he name of the state and it doesn't get discussed musch around here.

Don't get me wrong.  In way am i recommending Juvie or anything like that.  I'm asking primarly about at-home solutions such as "Wraparound"-like programs.

[try another castle]

I have been through both too and I think they are equally ridiculous. In california you don't just sit in a cell or something they have outdoor camps and shit just like casa by the sea so it really is no different. Dont fall into the trap of offering parents solutions just beause you know what doesn't work. Because there is a whole other sector of industrialized abuse being done int he name of the state and it doesn't get discussed musch around here.

Yeah, the CYA is pretty brutal.

[Anonymous]

I have been through both too and I think they are equally ridiculous. In california you don't just sit in a cell or something they have outdoor camps and shit just like casa by the sea so it really is no different. Dont fall into the trap of offering parents solutions just beause you know what doesn't work. Because there is a whole other sector of industrialized abuse being done int he name of the state and it doesn't get discussed musch around here.

True.  I wasn't suggesting either one but at least there's some attempt at regulation and basic human rights in a lot of the state run shitholes.  Not that it makes them safe or good by any means, just that I had an easier time dealing with them than with the private kiddie prisons.

[Anonymous]

I agree. I felt I had more access to advocates or whatever in public facilities, but really so what. The reality is shit still goes down no matter what. So why would a parent EVER want to bring their kid into that willingly? I have seen both Niles and Julie now suggest calling the cops is a "natural consequence". What if your kid freaks and pulls his cell phone out and the unload their clips into him in his bedroom? Did the parents think of that outcome? Sorry, but that shit really gets to me.

If I was giving advice to parents I would say avoid the justice system as well as private programs offering solutions. It's all poison. Stay as far away from that shit as possible. And if you are forced into it, my god, do not embrace it, fight for you kid, don't take the side of the state and it's "experts" who want to drug up your kid until they are a vegetable.

Parents need to be on the side of THEIR KID. Be aware that when asking for help in dealing with a trouble teen there are countless forces with their own agenda who want to suck you in. Resist it with all your might, help your kid over the hurdle and they will repay you with the best natural consequence of all, love... even if it takes them a while.

[hanzomon4]

Yeah the legal system can equal state or private run programs like TB and the others. Some Juvis are so bad international human rights groups have spoke out against them. The dangerous thing with programs is the parents that keep their kids there, with the legal system it's the judge that keeps them there. However a kid in juvi has more hope in fighting mistreatment then a kid(with program parent) does fighting a program.

I would suggest if parents need a time out and their kid is hurting themselves or others send them to a hospital psych ward. They can be tested for mental illness, keep safe in a regulated and licensed facility with properly trained doctors/nurses, and offered rEaL TrEatMeNt not forced bullshit.
Psych wards can't and won't promise a 100% problem solved child, but most hospitals won't offer abuse either. Oversight exist in a hospital psych unit, in a Program? nope

[Karass]

Anyone who suggests parents should call the cops on their own child and that the justice system is "natural consequences" obviously has no personal experience with the justice system. The worst juvie might be better than TB or Casa, but it might be a lot worse than the 'softest' private program.

"Justice" has nothing to do with it and the punishment rarely fits the crime. And in the modern day, where fucking cops are ever-present in every junior high and high school, things that used to be "youthful indiscretions" in my teen years are now felonies with life-altering consequences.

[hanzomon4]

I think we can all agree that parents need more alternatives and that under no circumstance should they risk sending a kid to a program that lacks licensing, oversight, or properly trained and   qualified staff...
The problems with alternatives is that each case is different, in both the kids issue and the parents level of desperation and ignorance. Sad to say the one thing most parents have in common is that a program will seem the most attractive no matter the alternatives. The programs can promise peace in the home, a sure fix, and little action from the parent. Real therapy can't compete with that because it's real therapy, not thought reform.

@TSW, I'll checkout Intermountain Hospital... Thanks for the info

EDIT: Hey TSW, you got a link to any abuse allegations are something I'm only getting links to their site.

[Karass]

I think we can all agree that parents need more alternatives and that under no circumstance should they risk sending a kid to a program that lacks licensing, oversight, or properly trained and   qualified staff...
The problems with alternatives is that each case is different, in both the kids issue and the parents level of desperation and ignorance. Sad to say the one thing most parents have in common is that a program will seem the most attractive no matter the alternatives. The programs can promise peace in the home, a sure fix, and little action from the parent. Real therapy can't compete with that because it's real therapy, not thought reform.

@TSW, I'll checkout Intermountain Hospital... Thanks for the info

"desperation and ignorance" is what makes the big $ for The Industry. I didn't even know about Fornits or ST until after my kid was already marching through the Utah wilderness. I'm damn glad I got educated before we had to decide on the "next steps" before he finished his time there.

 I did, however, have some second-hand experience -- a nephew who my sister sent to a mindfuck TBS. When we had exhausted all local alternatives and he still seemed to be on a death spiral, we got desperate enough to send him to wilderness. It was specifically chosen as an alternative to a mindfuck TBS, and as an alternative to all the shitty local options we had tried with no success. With our family's many journeys to the middle of nowhere, it seemed somewhat appropriate. Little did I know at the time that Wilderness & TBS were related. I still don't get that, at all. A wilderness experience should be nothing like a mindfuck TBS experience. Yes, BM techniques can be applied in any setting, but I just don't get the connection, or how it got this way. I have always found the wilderness to be a very cool place, one where you can let go of the stresses of urban life and experience something very different, and I thought my son would draw on happy childhood memories there while he "figured things out." On the other hand, a so-called "school" where you have to work through Levels or points, and can get in trouble for stupid shit like relationships with the opposite sex just doesn't make any sense. Not that the wilderness seems so damn therapeutic, but the TBS model seems really anti-therapeutic.

The other thing is, we weren't expecting any 'quick fix' or any real therapeutic breakthroughs -- more like a starting point. A starting point for what exactly, I don't know. Maybe just a starting point for living as opposed to dying. And a starting point for understanding exactly what was so bad about living that made dying look like a reasonable alternative.

[try another castle]

You get the parents who spend countless hours at work. Their kids are at home doing the latch key kid thing, ignored for the most part, the parents are consumed doing the career thing. Or the parents got divorced and Jr. is bouncing back and forth on visitations. Or the parents are just a couple of fuckwad cokeheads. Or the one of the parents gets their rocks off beating on Jr.

This is the population of kid that tends to clog up the TBS industry.

TSW, you scare me sometimes.


BTW, I think Intermountain Hospital of Idaho was where I was supposed to go if I started acting up on the ride from Spokane to Bonners Ferry.