Author Topic: The industries ultimate dream: keep your kid a child FOREVER  (Read 2434 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nihilanthic

  • Posts: 3931
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The industries ultimate dream: keep your kid a child FOREVER
« on: November 05, 2006, 04:53:16 AM »
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15517226/

Should severely disabled kids be kept small?
6-year-old given hormones to stunt growth so parents can care for her
Updated: 6:23 p.m. ET Nov 1, 2006

NEW YORK - In a report published in a medical journal this month, two doctors describe a 6-year-old girl with profound, irreversible developmental disability who was given high doses of estrogen to permanently halt her growth so that her parents could continue to care for her at home.

The controversial growth-attenuation treatment, which included hysterectomy, was requested by the child's parents and initiated after careful consultation and review by an ethics committee.

In their report in the Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, Drs. Daniel F. Gunther and Douglas S. Diekema, both at the University of Washington in Seattle, explain the reasoning behind what they hope will generate a healthy debate. Gunther is at the Division of Pediatric Endocrinology, and Diekema is at the Center for Pediatric Bioethics.
Story continues below ? advertisement
 

Caring for children with profound developmental disabilities can be difficult and demanding, they note. For children with severe combined neurologic and cognitive impairment who are unable to move without assistance, all the necessities of life ? dressing, bathing, transporting ? must be provided by caregivers, usually parents, and these tasks become increasing difficult, if not impossible, as the child increases in size.

"Achieving permanent growth attenuation while the child is still young and of manageable size would remove one of the major obstacles to family care and might extend the time that parents with the ability, resources, and inclination to care for their child at home might be able to do so," Gunther and Diekema write.

The parents of the 6-year-old, both of whom were college-educated professionals, indicated a strong desire to continue caring for their daughter. Despite having the neurologic development no greater than that of an infant, the 6-year-old responds to her parents and two healthy siblings ? vocalizing and smiling in response to care and affection ? and "clearly is an integral, and much loved, member of the family," the authors note.

After extensive evaluation, the combined opinion of a team of specialists is that the child will have no significant neurologic or cognitive improvements.

  Click for related content

Message board: Should parents have the right?

The onset of puberty and continued growth caused concern in the parents about how they would care for their daughter long-term, which they clearly wanted to do. They were concerned about having to turn over care to "strangers" and also about the complications that would arise when the child started menstruating.

The child is now a little more than a year into growth-attenuating therapy and approaching the end of her growth, Gunther and Diekema report. "As of yet, there have been no treatment complications."

The authors feel that growth arresting therapy can be "both ethical and feasible and should be an option available to parents."

The authors of a commentary applaud Gunther and Diekema for publishing this case report, although they believe that attempts to attenuate growth are "ill advised."

Nonetheless, Dr. Jeffrey P. Brosco from the University of Miami and Dr. Chris Feudtner from the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, say that by beginning the debate, this paper helps to "advance our ethical dialogue as we struggle to define our core values in words, laws, and deeds. Only with further research and public discussion will we learn whether attempts to attenuate growth run with or against our fundamental values in caring for children with profound developmental disabilities."
(c) Reuters 2006. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by caching, framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters and the Reuters sphere logo are registered trademarks and trademarks of the Reuters group of companies around the world.

WHAT THE FUCK?!?!??!

I swear to god, the ability for this to be abused is pretty astonishing... and terrifying.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
The industries ultimate dream: keep your kid a child FOREVER
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2006, 10:44:05 AM »
yup ... the potential for abuse IS terrifying, and real controls are in order.  that would seem to be one goal in publishing the report - to set standards and controls and not keep things behind closed doors.  nobody seemed to be treating this likely, and all seemed interested in helping the kid and protecting her.  but given that, and the content of the story, the "caption" you, N, chose for the subject is totally out of line!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

  • Posts: 3931
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The industries ultimate dream: keep your kid a child FOREVER
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2006, 10:47:30 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
yup ... the potential for abuse IS terrifying, and real controls are in order.  that would seem to be one goal in publishing the report - to set standards and controls and not keep things behind closed doors.  nobody seemed to be treating this likely, and all seemed interested in helping the kid and protecting her.  but given that, and the content of the story, the "caption" you, N, chose for the subject is totally out of line!


Ok, considering an Ed-Con can CURRENTLY twist shit and say your child has to be kidnapped, held captive, and brainwashed and drugged (and they get away with it...) whats to stop them from giving the kids hormones too?

If its all about "Parent's rights" and any old idiot can just SAY your child has x mental/psychological condition, its not really a slippery slope so much as a nudge to take it there.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
The industries ultimate dream: keep your kid a child FOREVER
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2006, 11:03:42 AM »
If it wasn't for the sparks shooting by themselves between nearby metal objects, Luke would almost look calm. If you know who and what he really is, you understand why he has to show up for this one..

Tell me this isn't real. Tell me this is some sort of fucking joke.

Tell me this doesn't fucking exist in your world!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
The industries ultimate dream: keep your kid a child FOREVER
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2006, 11:18:49 AM »
Quote
The parents of the 6-year-old, both of whom were college-educated professionals, indicated a strong desire to continue caring for their daughter.


sounds like a couple of caring parents who DONT want their daughter institutionalized for the rest of her life. they are trying everything they can to NOT have other people care for her. it was reviewed by a medical ethical panel, and they agreed it was the right thing for this child. this has nothing to do with the teen RTC industry. im as anti program as the next guy but this is a red herring.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

  • Posts: 3931
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The industries ultimate dream: keep your kid a child FOREVER
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2006, 11:19:55 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
The parents of the 6-year-old, both of whom were college-educated professionals, indicated a strong desire to continue caring for their daughter.

sounds like a couple of caring parents who DONT want their daughter institutionalized for the rest of her life. they are trying everything they can to NOT have other people care for her. it was reviewed by a medical ethical panel, and they agreed it was the right thing for this child. this has nothing to do with the teen RTC industry. im as anti program as the next guy but this is a red herring.


I sure as hell hope so, but given the shit thats gone on unbridled for so long, who knows.

I just hope this doesn't give anyone ideas.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
The industries ultimate dream: keep your kid a child FOREVER
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2006, 11:21:15 AM »
Quote
The onset of puberty and continued growth caused concern in the parents about how they would care for their daughter long-term, which they clearly wanted to do. They were concerned about having to turn over care to "strangers"  and also about the complications that would arise when the child started menstruating.


yeah.. what horrible people.  :roll:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

  • Posts: 3931
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The industries ultimate dream: keep your kid a child FOREVER
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2006, 11:25:04 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
The onset of puberty and continued growth caused concern in the parents about how they would care for their daughter long-term, which they clearly wanted to do. They were concerned about having to turn over care to "strangers"  and also about the complications that would arise when the child started menstruating.

yeah.. what horrible people.  :roll:


Ok, that is a very valid point... but completely beside my own.

My point is the thought of chemically (and surgically) making someone be juvenile forever, because someone deemed they were mentally unfit being twisted and misapplied scared me. Obviously this a case where its a child who will remain mentally an infant forever (according to the opinion of actual experts) but consider how ed-cons and programs give 'diagnoses' all fucking day long, and Im sure you could see how someone might want to add this to the list of potential 'cures'.

Shit, they rely on psychological regression as it is!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
The industries ultimate dream: keep your kid a child FOREVER
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2006, 11:37:16 AM »
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it did give them ideas.

Guest, you're missing the point. There are some roads that never should be gone down, some ideas that never should come to light. Frankly, I don't care much about the article itself. The kid in question is permanently, organically, brain damaged and isn't even sentient.

The point is that the tools used to do this are freely available on the open market, much as chainsaws are available to guys in hockey masks. It's just a matter of having the insanity to misuse them. Publishing this article is like posting a notice to all the hockey-mask guys in the world: "Guess what? Not only are chainsaws good for cutting wood, they can also be used to hack people's limbs off!"

From the programmie point of view, what better way to control hormonally-incensed teenage boys than by giving them es... I can't even type that. It's something you'd see on a particularly depraved fetish site.

Remember, the people discussed in the article might have done it after a long period of consideration and with concern, but the people we usually discuss on Fornits have no ethics whatsoever and it's easy to visualize them doing something like this (but hard to wash away the nightmares afterwards).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
milk will love this
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2006, 12:46:53 PM »
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 21,00.html

Doctors: let us kill disabled babies

ONE of Britain?s royal medical colleges is calling on the health profession to consider permitting the euthanasia of seriously disabled newborn babies.

The proposal by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecology is a reaction to the number of such children surviving because of medical advances. The college is arguing that ?active euthanasia? should be considered for the overall good of families, to spare parents the emotional burden and financial hardship of bringing up the sickest babies.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

  • Posts: 3931
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: milk will love this
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2006, 12:48:14 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2437921,00.html

Doctors: let us kill disabled babies

ONE of Britain?s royal medical colleges is calling on the health profession to consider permitting the euthanasia of seriously disabled newborn babies.

The proposal by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecology is a reaction to the number of such children surviving because of medical advances. The college is arguing that ?active euthanasia? should be considered for the overall good of families, to spare parents the emotional burden and financial hardship of bringing up the sickest babies.


Great. EXACTLY the same justification programs use to torture and brainwash kids are killing babies in England.

At least in the USA we give em until their teens until we try this shit...   :x
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The industries ultimate dream: keep your kid a child FOREVER
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2006, 01:32:24 PM »
Given that high doses of estrogen can cause breast cancer, diabetes, gallstones, asthma, blood clots, and strokes; perhaps this could be seen as a form of euthanasia.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
The industries ultimate dream: keep your kid a child FOREVER
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2006, 01:50:38 PM »
My immediate reaction to this article is I think I'm going to puke. This is right up there with genetically engineering humans...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
The industries ultimate dream: keep your kid a child FOREVER
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2006, 04:00:17 PM »
Kind of off topic, but if your child is "private pay", not insurance, they will keep your child sometimes past the age of 18, and some new programs use the "wayward minor" clause to keep an individual in their "treatment" until the age of 24.  Oh, and if you're having insurance pay for the program, or you've mortgaged the house for the money, as soon as the cash is gone, your kid is on the street, treatment be damned.  These "non-profit" organizations should have a bit of money set aside to take care of the needy, don't you think?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

  • Posts: 3931
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The industries ultimate dream: keep your kid a child FOREVER
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2006, 04:02:14 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Kind of off topic, but if your child is "private pay", not insurance, they will keep your child sometimes past the age of 18, and some new programs use the "wayward minor" clause to keep an individual in their "treatment" until the age of 24.  Oh, and if you're having insurance pay for the program, or you've mortgaged the house for the money, as soon as the cash is gone, your kid is on the street, treatment be damned.  These "non-profit" organizations should have a bit of money set aside to take care of the needy, don't you think?


How can you say someone is a wayward minor when they hit 18 and are legally emancipated the minute the clock ticks midnight?

Well, besides not telling anyone and not letting the kid call the police.

I swear to god so much of this would get simply stamped out like so many insects if someone made the cops do their damn job.

The real question is: how do you hold them accountable?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."