Author Topic: brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good  (Read 10491 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Dr Phil

  • Posts: 169
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2006, 12:04:55 PM »
I suppose after watching, year after year, the same programs grow bigger and more profitable than ever before, and I tend to be pessimistic on the subject. WWASPS has received an unrecendented amount of negative media attention the past few years. We couldn't buy that amount of press coverage if we were multi millionaires. Magazines, prime-time news magazine shows, Montel, etc. I also notice that you don't see any daytime talk shows where the entire point is to send teens to boot camp, I am sure people remember sally jesse raphael, and the like when this tv show format was possible. Yet, even with an increase in negative attention, and positve attention in the sense that they don't advertise boot camps for teens on talk shows as much anymore, they still grow.

I think this all goes way beyond simple parental ignorance. As well, I don't believe that parents are going to vote for people who want to restrict their parental rights even more. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day, and he told me he brings up the subject of abusive programs to influential people he comes into contact with in his job, and about half will start a tirade about how wrong he is to criticize programs and how they save lives. College professors, lawyers, doctors, politicians (especially), cops, social workers, etc. We are in the minoriy. We are considered 'broken souls', the poor schmucks who the program didn't fix, and because of that we are bitter. That is what they believe. They do not believe we were normal people who didn't deserve to be locked up in the first place and be abused. Look at people's faces when you say something like that, then watch the wheels turn as they construct in their mind why you are exaggerating or lying. Afterall, we live in america, the greatest country on earth, this couldn't happen here, if it did it would be shut down already. People live in the naivety of tv land where problems are addressed and solved, everything is black and white and all is well in the world of middle and upper class white america. It's hard to convince people of truth when they don't want to believe it.

Now, to parents. How many families have two working parents? How many families don't live near their family, or don't get along with them so they are totally on their own? A lot. So when there kid starts acting like a teenager or does something noticeable enough for their parent to finally take notice, they don't know where to go for help. Parents absolutely love the idea of programs. They have a romanticized sense of 'getting away' and improving their kid, from an adult perspective it does sound great. Hell, give me a year vacation in the mountains and I'll take it. But they don't get it, that they are signing over their kid to people who don't give a crap about them. The kid already has problems and the parent obviously doesn't have the time to address them, but why do they think that a 1/20 staff to kid ratio is going to somehow give them what they need. Parents want to believe kids are getting therapy, riding horses, playing guitar and singing kumbaya while in fact we are treated like cattle, wharehoused and kept in secret, forced through physical and emotional manipulation to do one thing -- keep our parents on the hook.That's all we were, a comoddity. You cannot pay a stranger to love a kid, you cannot pay a stranger to get to know 100 kids and help them through issues which they are dependent on the kid to tell them about. But they don't even believe the kid, so the parents diagnose the kid at entry and the staff assume everything the parent says is true. Accoding to my parent I was a fucked up dude, but that just wasn't true. But if the kid says anything they are not given the benefit of the doubt from parent or staff, they are automatically assumed to be lying. What does that teach a kid?

I've said it before, if I had no moral standards, or my own bad experience, I would start a program or referal business this minute. Why? Beccause it is such an easy sell to today's urban middle/upper class parents. It's too easy, it's such a good scam, one corporation alone is pulling in over a hundred million dollars a year.

People create problems in their life and others, and then look elsewhere for someone else to solve it. This is the behavior of children. But that's what the US is becoming, a country of children who look to big brother for help with every issue they perceive wrong in their life. It's ironic to look to help to a govt. which enabled socialists policies (drug war, high taxes, public school) to solve the negative symptoms of said policies. Families, individuals and communities need to look to themselves to solve their problems, not a huge beuaracratic entity that has done so much damage already, and is partly responsible for the situation today regarding teen programs.

Things I would like to see in this industry:
1. Active criminal prosecution of child abusers (randall hilton for example) . I don't know why parents are suing WWASPS for money, who wants their blood money? They deserve to be in jail, they commit fraud (all the people selling and refering the program including parents) that ultimately ends in physical and emotional abuse. If I get a ticket and harrassed for cops for crossing the street not in a crosswalk, certainly these people deserve a trip to the criminal justice system.
2. I would love to see kids who were abused start to sue their parents. I was tempted to do this myself. I am not talkin gabout parents who were genuinely duped, but with a program like WWASPS if you kept your kid in past discovery seminar then the parent should be sued for wrongful imprisonment, and infringing upon the rights of their child, especially if they hired kidnappers.

It's time to stop being politically correct and beating around the bush -- this is a parent driven industry. I know it's more comfortable to blame the evil corporations run by the 'evil elite' program owners but they are not the problem. There will always be snake oil salesmen, ready to sell their soul for a quick buck, they should be expected. These parents have money, they are not retarded, yes some are duped but most are not. The teen help industry is a sick sick world of people with one thing in common, the are all the most self righteous people you will ever meet. You cannot debate with these kind of people, they think they are saving the world. Fanatics are good at recruiting new members, and convincing everyone that their ditractors are crazy and stupid.

If you are serious about wanting to shut down programs, I would ask yourself these questions. Why hasn't scientology been shut down? Why haven't cults that have sex with children ben shut down? Why can parents let their kids  die because of their religious beliefs, even if they need a simple medication? Why does CPS love to take people's kids away, but won't set foot in programs? This isn't a black and white situation at all, it involves shitloads of money, politics, and power -- if you want to take down powerful wealthy people who are deriving that power and money from what you are trying to dissolve, good luck. It's kind of like asking, how can you dismantle the military industrial complex. Even the people involved in the defense industry think its out of control, yet it still grows. Sometimes things get to a point where they take on a life of their own, and become an integrated part of society in which thousands of people derive their livelihoods from it. So the discussion of whether it is moral or not takes a back seat to economics, politics and money.

I finally came to the concluion that looking at the industry as a goliath that needs to be slain by the anti-program david is naive at this point. There are too many forces working against us, including 'our own'. So I choose to tell my story to everyone who wants to know, and try to save kids from a tormented program experience one at a time, through advice to their parents. This worked for a couple cousins of mine already. Not sure what else to do at this point.  :-?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
It\'s time to get real!?

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2006, 01:57:29 PM »
It's times like this that I'm glad I'm a total outsider. The people I know outside of Fornits are sickened by the existence of any of this. The people I know don't have any people they know who are involved in this or who would ever consider sending their kid to one of these hellholes. It's just not done, just as putting your kid's hand on a stove to teach him it's hot isn't done. The people that know the people I know don't have anyone THEY know who does this shit... etc, etc, probably for quite a number of degrees of separation before you find someone crazy enough to send a kid to Mormons in Utah.

If people really approved of this, these places would never get shut down- and yet they are. Straight and The Seed are long gone. CEDU is toast. Multiple hardcore government-raid shutdowns have been performed against WWASPS in other countries. HLA is getting fried as we speak. It's just not happening fast enough; after enough repeated shutdowns, I assure you, they'll stay down- simply because they won't be able to get back up. There are some states in which none of this can exist because they figured out what it really was. The goal is simply to raise the number of states to 50.

TSW: Quit being a goddamn pussy. The legislation you came up with wasn't going to accomplish shit. Isn't that what I told you at the beginning of this? Try something with teeth next time. Of course the government can shut it down- the government can do damn near anything they want, that's why they call it government. It's just about making organized child torture politically untenable.

Jesus I can't believe I had to type that. Make organized child abuse politically untenable? You mean it's not already?

And there's only two "professional advocates" I can think of who are in it for profit: Sue and Izzy, and they aren't advocates, just dressed-up programmies.

OHE: Where the fuck do you live? No, seriously. Cops and judges and politicians are in favor of incarcerating kids without trial?

I'm so sick of the defeatist bullshit that comes up every time someone makes a thread like this. People, if there isn't any hope then I'm leaving and pretending none of this ever existed, because for me, it doesn't, just as the rampant slaughters and genocides in Africa don't exist for me.

Scientology has been almost completely destroyed from the inside out- they can't even afford to go after their detractors anymore like they used to. They've become a subject of mockery rather than a serious threat. One hellhole- I forget the name- in North Carolina was completely shut down after CPS got wind of what really went on there. How many times does this happen? How many places have been shut down by now? HLA is being boiled to death because of Fornits. There's one big WWASPS lawsuit that got started here. A lot of the things that get started here, we can't talk about for legal reasons (*waves to ZA*).

It works when people get serious about kicking ass. Pretend you're a program owner. What's the worst thing that can happen to you? What's the most horrible thing that someone can legally do to you? But since you're a Fornits member, it's up to you to make that happen.

You heard me. It's up to the members on this board. Who else is going to start the ass kicking? If you know people who are sickened by this shit, then get them to start expressing that to politicians and friends. If you don't, well then, it's just going to have to be YOU, isn't it?

It doesn't work? People aren't listening? Turn up the heat. Throw more evidence out there. The method of distribution isn't really important. There's no limit to the possibilities, seriously. Remember, these people kill kids for gargling milk- there's nothing you can conceivably do to them that's worse than that. If what you're trying to destroy isn't destroyed, then by definition, you haven't kicked enough ass. Still not gone? Turn up the heat, kick more ass. Get the youngest, most innocent-looking kid on TV to tell, in detail, just what was done to him, and be sure he names the facility and every one of the 'counselors' who abused him. That politician in your way? Wow, I bet everyone in HIS district doesn't know he supports child abuse. Hey, guess who just posted a massive billboard detailing the abuses of the programs that he supports (and make sure to quote him on that!). Lon Woodbury still in that building in Georgia? Hey, I wonder what would happen if EVERYONE IN HIS BUILDING knew what he does for a living? Sending kids to be beaten up by their peers at the command of "counselors"? Wow, really? I bet they didn't know that. Until someone stuck little fliers under each and every one of their doors. (Anyone in Georgia willing to pull this one off? Be sure to be detailed with your evidence.)

The choice is simple, folks: Either we say "That's it. I'm going to put an end to this shit." or we say "There's too many of them and they have too much support." I don't give a good healthy damn if there are too many of them and they do have too much support. I say we kick their asses anyway.

Have we all forgotten what the stakes are? Every time a parent shows up here and gets talked out of sending her kid to some shitpit, that's months, years of that kid's life that he's hanging out with his friends and enjoying his youth, instead of being subject to LGATs and forced into a mind-destroying regimented life.

Every time a hellhole gets shut down, that's another hundred kids being able to go skateboarding and drive around, instead of being in some warped 'level system' where they have to 'earn privileges' just to be able to talk to anyone.

And once this whole thing goes crashing to the ground, that's several thousand kids being with their friends and families and not subject to the whims of sadists.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Dr Phil

  • Posts: 169
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2006, 02:58:49 PM »
Quote
OHE: Where the fuck do you live? No, seriously. Cops and judges and politicians are in favor of incarcerating kids without trial?

Southern California. The judges and politicians send their kids to programs, along with the DA and all their lawyer buddies, they love programs. The cops don't make enough to even know about programs other than juve, besides, they just beat their kids.

Quote
The choice is simple, folks: Either we say "That's it. I'm going to put an end to this shit." or we say "There's too many of them and they have too much support." I don't give a good healthy damn if there are too many of them and they do have too much support. I say we kick their asses anyway.

I don't see anybody saying that. What I am saying is I focus on attainable goals rather than thinking that I am going to defeat an entire industry in one whole swoop. I don't throw up my hands, even with my opinions, through talking to family, posting on various blogs, making a website and talking to people I know I've influenced at least a dozen families from placing their kids. If every former program kid did this it would be an effective grass roots effort. We are the generation of parents now, tell your friends, and tell them to tell their friends. It's not as sexy as 'kicking their ass', but it's the most effective tool I've found.

Quote
Pretend you're a program owner. What's the worst thing that can happen to you?


Parents stop calling me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
It\'s time to get real!?

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2006, 04:38:22 PM »
Quote from: ""OutlawHorseEater""
I think this all goes way beyond simple parental ignorance. As well, I don't believe that parents are going to vote for people who want to restrict their parental rights even more.

Very true. People have already lost enough of their liberties to Big Government. They won't vote to have any more of their rights -- especially their parental rights -- further restricted. They will want to retain their right to raise their child as they see fit. Sadly, that includes the right to ship the kid off to let someone else raise him for awhile.

Quote from: ""TSW""
People know how bad the places can be, there is no question in my mind about that. I have met to many parents who have asked me questions about things like restraints and other abusive practices. They do their research. They just don't see what we tend to see that tough love is a poison to the soul of a child. Not to mention a killer of well over a hundred children in the USA alone.

I think there are two basic categories of program parents: the first is those who genuinely don't know the truth, who think the program really is going to offer their kid therapy, education & life skills that for whatever reasons, the parents believe they cannot provide at home. The second category is the 'tough love' crowd who have a pretty good idea of what these programs are about, and who feel that what their kid needs is punishment for real or imagined wrongdoings.

I don't know how one goes about trying to stop abusive parents from hiring a third party to commit abuse. Many of the worst atrocities committed by some programs are already illegal, but enforcement is sorely lacking, as is hard evidence in most cases.

I suspect that the negative publicity about WWASPS has not hurt business at all when it comes to the 'tough love' group of parents. Publicity is publicity, and there are parents who will hear the negative stuff about WWASPS and think, "hey, here's an outfit that might knock some sense into that unruly little beast of a teenager that I can't stand to have around anymore."

Quote from: ""OutlawHorseEater""
I finally came to the concluion that looking at the industry as a goliath that needs to be slain by the anti-program david is naive at this point. There are too many forces working against us, including 'our own'. So I choose to tell my story to everyone who wants to know, and try to save kids from a tormented program experience one at a time, through advice to their parents. This worked for a couple cousins of mine already. Not sure what else to do at this point.


Small though it may seem, there is a lot to be said for large numbers of people each doing what they can to save one life at a time. It's not a real solution, but it sure makes a difference to those kids whose parents were educated about this industry and chose a different course before they made a terrible life-altering mistake.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2006, 05:59:48 PM »
I've been here a long time. When I first started posting five years ago there wasn't near as much activity as there is today. There weren't many blogs and forums on the internet. Many that I participated on folded under the threat of slap suits. Fornits perservered. Participation seemed to explode a couple of years ago.

This is a huge social issue to tackle. Enthusiasm/Hopelessness ebbs and flows. If you reach the pit of hopelessness, take a break and come back refreshed. For me, I'm useless when hopelessness.
People work in the area of activism that most appeals to them, whether that be legislation or simply disseminating information. It's all good.
But, when the day is done it may prove that Fornits, and sites like it are the most effective, because this is a parent-driven industry, and discerning parents will do due diligence before placing their child.

You may not have a view of the bigger picture, but Fornits and other sites are getting notice.
Witness all the
*Advocate Sites, Blogs, Forums, and other Initiatives
*Recent presentation to APA by Pinto etal
*Lawsuits- which may not have happened had people not connected here and elsewhere.
*White papers (read Whitewash) being issued by the industry
*Or putting out "studies" tauting the safeness in Wilderness to efficacy of Residential programs

The Industry is in Defense Mode, which is new and exciting!
Do you think they'd go to all this effort if critics weren't affecting their bottomline? I think not, given they did nothing to defend themselves for a couple of decades.

Programs read forums and blogs and respond to their critics. I've seen this happen more the last couple of years than ever before. If a particular term is criticised, then they change it. Most recently an HLA supporter posting asked if we expected a 'school' to exist without any behavior "altercations". Clearly, he meant alterations. So, might this be a new term well hear in the future, since BM is getting such a bad rap?

You have to know your enemy. That requires research. Who's who, and what they're doing. Be prepared to respond to their latest effort/scam to ease public concerns.

NATSAPs President is fast peddling to put a new face of professionalism on the industry.... boy does he have his work cut out for him. He's prodding programs to move away from the 'experiemental, new agey, woo-woo' methods (or appear to anyway) that all programs use which goes back to CEDU/Synanon; and move to Evidence Based methods.
But, even if they totally restructured their programs, there aren't any EB models, save the pathetic "study" put out by Canyon Research (Ex Aspen employee and funded by NATSAP). Everywhere you see this study cited, the direct connection between Behrens and Aspen, and the research methods needs to be exposed.
Ex:http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=49908

We need MH professionals who can critque the 'study' in a professional manner and connect the dots between the players, showing it wasn't  Independent. Ten of CRCs 14 clients are Aspen.

Evidence Based practice supports family involvement. Here's how one of CRCs clients who claims to be EB, is spinning that-

Q. How can I do family therapy if my family does not live in Utah?
A. We recognize the importance of family therapy and will make every effort to work with family and individual?s schedules. We will offer your family web cam, telephone conferencing, or intensives for family therapy. The web cam will be via secured, encrypted service to ensure confidentiality.
http://www.newlifecenters.org/faq.html

They just won't be able to get around the fact that "treatment in isolation" doesn't work. So.... send your kid to us for a year or two, then get the community services you need when the kid comes home.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2006, 06:53:27 PM »
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Evidence Based practice supports family involvement. Here's how one of CRCs clients who claims to be EB, is spinning that-

Q. How can I do family therapy if my family does not live in Utah?
A. We recognize the importance of family therapy and will make every effort to work with family and individual?s schedules. We will offer your family web cam, telephone conferencing, or intensives for family therapy. The web cam will be via secured, encrypted service to ensure confidentiality.
http://www.newlifecenters.org/faq.html

That would be hilarious if it weren't so sad. Teen problems almost always involve family dysfunction, but rather than treat the whole family together, the new program philosophy is "we still want you to give us your child and all your money, but we'll sort of virtually keep the family together with webcams and conference calls." Too bad physical touch -- hugs & kisses -- can't be virtualized over the internet or the telephone.

Quote
They just won't be able to get around the fact that "treatment in isolation" doesn't work. So.... send your kid to us for a year or two, then get the community services you need when the kid comes home.


Sadly, I think one of the biggest factors that keeps this parent-driven industry going is the lack of appropriate community services in many cities. Programs are responding to an unmet demand by parent-consumers. Nevermind that the "services" provided by the programs don't really do what they claim.  Just the fact that they claim to offer solutions seems, to many parents, better than any local alternatives -- simply because local alternatives are sometimes non-existent.

You wanna kill the programs? Then let's work on beefing up those community-based options that advocates always talk about.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2006, 07:07:48 PM »
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=19038
Yes, when you're not putting out fires on Fornits, pitch WrapAround services to any and all agencies in your state. Identify the Human Rights orgs who might pitch it to the state and legislature. Get the public discussion going. Get it to the media. Challenge the state to act in kids best interest. The creation of WrapAround could kill multiple birds with one stone- RTCs, CPS, Foster, etc. There's ample evidence of efficacy. I despise PharmCo and the drugging of kids, but I'd risk it (because that can be addressed as a separate issue), if it keeps kids out of warehouses.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
So far so good
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2006, 09:05:32 PM »
I tend to aggree more with everybody but OHE.  Although small scale dissemination of information is good, I think it would be better to attempt to make a loud a noise as possable.  If you don't believe this is possable than like MGDP said, you should just give up.  Yes the problem seems impossable to fix, but programs have been falling apart as of recently, mainly as a result of places like Fornits, and the people who post here.

Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
Parents will always say, "My program for my kid isn't like WWASP, therefore its a good program."

This is why I would almost argue it would be more productive to go after the lesser programs first, in order to set the bar for what is considered "abuse" lower.  CEDU would have been better to take out first IMO.

In any case, making parents see the truth of what really goes on in the "best of programs" would probably shock them.  I would like to think most parents are in denial.  Until you put the putrid truth right under their noses, it's unlikely they will wake up.

Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penal""
It doesn't work? People aren't listening? Turn up the heat. Throw more evidence out there. The method of distribution isn't really important. There's no limit to the possibilities, seriously.

This is more of what i was looking for when i started this thread.  Means of collecting and disseminating information on a mass scale.  There are, as MGDP suggests, limitless possabilities for doing this.  I just think it would be useful to start listing them in one useful place.

Deborah has also given some useful suggestions, of the type i would think would be very useful it they were elaborated on and collaboratively added to.  This is the type of thing i would think a Wiki could be of aid to.

Regarding WrapAround, i am not so sure how good an idea it is to possably create another monster.  The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.  Although WrapAround seems by far a better alternative than programs, especially at the moment, i'm a bit cynical regarding where things could possably head in the future.  Organizations are not incorruptable.  That being said, it is a better alternative to programs at the moment so it's probably a good idea to do what Deborah mentions.

Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penal""
It works when people get serious about kicking ass. Pretend you're a program owner. What's the worst thing that can happen to you? What's the most horrible thing that someone can legally do to you?


This is where i optimally see the discussion heading.

Although it would be nice to figure out a way to take out more than just one program at a time  The Michael Moore idea was a good step in this direction i think although i'm not sure he would be such a good choice given his political leanings and the tendency of the right to completely ignore anything he has to say (whether it has merit or not).

So here is one of the ideas i was thinking of:

flier / handout / dvd campaign

Compile information about programs and distrobute them via a website.  People could hand out the information locally on a given day, across the country (for maximum effect).  Hand them out in shopping malls, in front of movie theatres, churches (yes the "think about the children" crowd can help as well), anywhere where there is enough human traffic.  If a documentary was produced a leaflet campaign could turn into a DVD campaign.  Blank dvd media is cheap.  If the media got wind of what was happening it could open up even more possabilities.

Any more?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2006, 12:17:25 AM »
Quote
If you don't believe this is possable than like MGDP said, you should just give up.

 :roll:

Quote
but programs have been falling apart as of recently

There are more programs than ever, they are expanding.

Quote
I would like to think most parents are in denial.

That's why you'll be another in a long line of ineffective activists, and ultimately disallusioned when you find out the truth.

Quote
flier / handout / dvd campaign

Compile information about programs and distrobute them via a website. People could hand out the information locally on a given day, across the country (for maximum effect). Hand them out in shopping malls, in front of movie theatres, churches (yes the "think about the children" crowd can help as well), anywhere where there is enough human traffic. If a documentary was produced a leaflet campaign could turn into a DVD campaign. Blank dvd media is cheap. If the media got wind of what was happening it could open up even more possabilities.


Not sure whether to laugh or cry.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2006, 12:25:50 AM »
Quote
Parents will always say, "My program for my kid isn't like WWASP, therefore its a good program."


And the parents with kids in WWASP give the old addage... "better my kid is in WWASP'S care than on the street, dead or in jail". It's an effectiv thought-terminating cliche taught to programmies.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2006, 12:31:05 AM »
:idea: What about a substantial donation to a credible advocating reporting entity for the purpose of developing TV commercials? If Millions of Americans saw TV ads about the harmful effects of treatment abuse, maybe the customer bases of all of these programs would dwindle away... TV Commercials are very expensive, but, you get what you pay for, right? The abusive programs have $$$$$$$$ overflowing their toilets without advertising on TV. A countering website here and there doesn't do the trick like what is really needed. Furthermore,the mainstream media usually only covers deaths and major events, not the everyday hell that kids go through in programs. If, during every primetime, people saw a commercial about harmful treatment programs, maybe people would start to wake up, make more donations and get some $$$$ going the opposite direction. Without substantial $$$$ resources, efforts to abdicate abusive treatment programs may ultimately and/or continuously fall short.  :idea:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2006, 12:39:46 AM »
who are these mysterious millionaires that will finanace all these projects everyone is coming up with??

have you all not heard of google video?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2006, 12:47:50 AM »
you are all fools. look at you -- keyboard jockies who talk big with no follow through -- get over yourselves. go pick up a book and read the example of great men like ghandi, jesus and MLK jr. -- these are the real leaders of our time and they weren't hiding in momma's basement talking big under a fake name in cyberspace. unless you are willing to go hunger strike in front of programs full time then shut up. unless you are willing to cause civil disobedience and go to jail then shut up. if you are willing to follow the example of so many martyrs of our time i would respect you -- until then you are all just talk. you fools don't even know what committment is look at these people willing to give their live for their cause.


A Kurdish protester sets fire to himself outside the Greek Parliament in Athens
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2006, 01:01:44 AM »
I was wondering when the trolls would show up.

Hi, trolls! :wave: Ready to get owned? Welcome to the rest of the world, assholes- your particular blend of mindless bullshit and emotional jerking just doesn't work here.

Nobody here is going to set himself on fire.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »