Charles Carl Roberts IV

[Anonymous]

Any info yet on what kind of medication this guy might have been taking when the Amish Scoll tragedy occurred?

[Anonymous]

Of course it matters.

[Anonymous]

I doubt he was on any medication but either way its not a reason to shoot innocent children. Plenty of completely unmedicated individuals do horrible things. OH, and one other thing...you wont have a chance to watch him fry in the electric chair, he committed suicide.

[Anonymous]

I've yet to see a case like this where medication was not involved.

[Dr Phil]

Or, maybe he forgot to take his medication that day.

[Anonymous]

Or, maybe he forgot to take his medication that day.

 :rofl:


I wonder if that claim is true though.  There's never been a school shooting by someone not on medication?  Really?

[Anonymous]

I'm personally not aware of any schools shooting where medication and/or other drugs were not a factor.

[Anonymous]

Ok, well that's great but I'm looking for some actual proof.  I"m not doubting it, just trying to confirm it.  Some anonymous person stating they "personally don't have any knowledge of..." really doesn't do much.  I mean, who are you?  Do you have clear knowledge of this that you can back up or are you just some random person posting their opinion.  Have you looked into this at all?  What's the basis for your statement?

[RobertBruce]

Plenty of completely unmedicated individuals do horrible things.

Bullfrog this is an interesting comment coming from you. You yourself and all your old pals at HLA did many horrible things...all unmedicated (I would assume).

[Anonymous]

Ok, well that's great but I'm looking for some actual proof.  I"m not doubting it, just trying to confirm it.  Some anonymous person stating they "personally don't have any knowledge of..." really doesn't do much.  I mean, who are you?  Do you have clear knowledge of this that you can back up or are you just some random person posting their opinion.  Have you looked into this at all?  What's the basis for your statement?

Just a partial list..


Subject: PPEN # 216 and # 150: Psychotropic Drugs and School Shooters. These Toxic Drugs are Lethal in More Ways Than One!

Preventive Psychiatry E-Newsletter # 216: More on SSRI-Induced Suicides/Homicides: It Isn't Just About School Shooters

From: Eileen Dannemann,
Director, National Coalition of Organized Women
www.ProgressiveConv ergence.com
http://www.slavetot hemetal.org
917 804-0786 cell

South Carolina:

http://www.motherjo nes.com/news/ outfront/ 2004/11/10_ 401.html

http://www.petition online.com/ 4989/petition. html

Christopher Pittman was only 12 when he shot and killed both of his grandparents, and torched their home. He blames Zoloft for the crime that has put him behind bars, as does his family.

Utah:

http://www.worldtal kradio.com/ category. asp?cid=266

http://www.latimes. com/features/ health/la- he-ssri2feb02, 1,6561761. story

Kevin Rider's death was determined to be a suicide. He had been attempting to withdraw from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head at the age of 14. Two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also aged 14 had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants. The investigation remains open.

Georgia:

http://www.ajc. com/news/ content/health/ 0405/03alex. html

Alex Kim was 13 and small for his age. He was found hanging by a belt from his closet rack. His prescription of Lexapro had recently been doubled.

Massachusettes:

http://www.nomorefa kenews.com/ archives/ archiveview. php?key=2673

http://newswire. indymedia. org/en/newswire/ 2005/06/823338. shtml

http://www.sskrplaw .com/adhd/ Complaint. pdf

Diane Routhier was beautiful, and happily married for 18 years, with two wonderful boys. She was prescribed Wellbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering through adverse effects of this drug, she shot herself.

Florida:

http://www.naplesne ws.com/npdn/ news/article/ 0,2071,NPDN_ 14940_3054830, 00.html

http://news. tbo.com/news/ MGB9RJ7M2XD. html

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. He didn't get better. His family found him dead of suicide - hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Idaho:

http://www.antidepr essantsfacts. com/Kara- 12-paxil. htm

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter was prescribed Paxil. She hanged herself at the age of 12 from a hook in her closet.

".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil.)

Vancouver, BC Canada

http://www.thestar. com/NASApp/ cs/ContentServer ?pagename= thestar/Layout/ Article_Type1& call_pageid= 971358637177& c=Article& cid=108025621009 4

Gareth Christian was an artistic, intelligent young man with a great sense of humour, excited at the prospect of starting his own snowboarding company.

So when the 18-year-old Vancouver resident committed suicide in January, 2002, his friends and family were shocked. Gareth had been prescribed Paxil.

(Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and took his life.)

Pennsylvania:

http://www.prevents uicidenow. com/julie- woodward- suicide.html

http://www.phillybu rbs.com/pb- dyn/news/ 113-04262004- 289397.html

Julie Woodward was a beautiful, intelligent, popular, studious, disciplined, ambitious, and caring girl. A diagnostic test that she took at school confirmed what many believed, that Julie was indeed suffering from depression. Two doctors at the clinic convinced her parents, Tom and Kathy, to put her on Zoloft. Six days later she hanged herself in her family's detached garage. She was only 17.

Kansas:

http://www.nytimes. com/2004/ 11/21/magazine/ 21TEENS.html

Matthew Miller was 13 - a slight, fair-haired boy who wore skateboard-style clothing. He was a Cub Scout and had built the fastest pine-wood derby car in his age division.

He was having difficulty and school, and a psychiatrist prescribed Zoloft for him. Seven days after beginning the samples, his mother found him dead. hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Pennsylvania:

http://www.presscon nects.com/ sunday/news/ stories/ne022005 s149577.shtml

Kurt Danysh was 18 and on Prozac when he killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, hoping to reach anyone who will listen to him. He has a warning for the world.. SSRI drugs can kill.. You... or someone else.

Minnesota:

http://www.woodymat ters.com/ story.html

Woody died of a Zoloft-induced suicide at age 37. He was not depressed, nor did he have any history of mental illness or depression. He died after taking the drug a total of 5 weeks with the dosage being doubled shortly before his death. He was given the antidepressant from his general physician for "insomnia."

Houston:

http://www.click2ho uston.com/ news/3716997/ detail.html

Ten year old boy shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

Transcript of the FDA Advisory Committee Meeting on Antidepressants

February 2, 2004:

http://www.fda. gov/ohrms/ dockets/ac/ 04/transcripts/ 4006t1.htm

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

Preventive Psychiatry # Newsletter # 150

An Incomplete List of Recent American "School Shooters" and the Brain-Altering, Empathy-Destroying, Impulse Control-Destroying, "I Don't Give A Damn Anymore" Prescription Drugs They Were On:

* Jeff Weise, age 16, was on 60 mg of Prozac when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather' s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

* Eric Harris, age 18, Columbine High student was on Luvox when he killed twelve classmates and a teacher in Littleton, Colorado. 15 dead, 23 wounded.

* Kip Kinkel, age 15, Springfield, Oregon student, was withdrawing from Prozac when he shot 24 classmates/family members.

* Shawn Cooper, a 15-year-old in Notus, Idaho, was taking Ritalin when he fired a shotgun at school.

* 14-year-old Elizabeth Bush was on Prozac when she shot at fellow students in Williamsport, Pennsylvania, wounding one.

* Mitchell Johnson, age 13, was taking an unspecified psych drug when he shot at fellow students in Jonesboro, Arkansas. 5 dead, many others wounded.

* T.J. Solomon, a 15-year-old in Conyers, Georgia, was taking Ritalin when he shot six classmates.

* Jason Hoffman, age 18, was on Effexor and Celexa when he wounded five students at his Granite Hills high school, El Cajon, California.

* Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage.

[Anonymous]

These are pretty scary anectodal stories, but what are the real statistics? Is it your belief that SSRIs or other antidepressants are always harmful and never helpful? How many clinically depressed people have been helped by these drugs? What is the ratio of "helped" to "suicidal or homicidal"? Is it 1:1, 100:1, 100000:1?

I don't claim to know the answers, nor do I dismiss cases where these drugs have contributed to murder or suicide. But I do know several people who, in their own opinion as well as those close to them, have benefited a lot from antidepressants.

[Anonymous]

These are pretty scary anectodal stories, but what are the real statistics? Is it your belief that SSRIs or other antidepressants are always harmful and never helpful? How many clinically depressed people have been helped by these drugs? What is the ratio of "helped" to "suicidal or homicidal"? Is it 1:1, 100:1, 100000:1?

I don't claim to know the answers, nor do I dismiss cases where these drugs have contributed to murder or suicide. But I do know several people who, in their own opinion as well as those close to them, have benefited a lot from antidepressants.

   I think your sense of reasoning in regards to statistical data is pretty slanted. If 100% ( or 70, 80 or 90 percent) of the shooting incidents are tied to SSRIs and the like, you can't attempt to marginlise by the statistical reasoning you present.

   And though it might be argueable that medications may benefit some people, looking at them 5, 10 and 20 years later tells the real truth about such alledged "benefits"..

[RobertBruce]

Your argument is without merit.

The first reason being the amount of killings world or even nationwide that are done by people on meds doesnt even reach close to the percentage youre talking about. Therefore there is nothing to coroborate the claim that perscription drug use leads to violence on an even remotely large scale.

The second being that these people you're listing off all went on drugs for a reason. Something was wrong to begin with. You have no way of knowing whether or not they would have committed their crimes even off the drugs.

Your argument is typical liberal ideology. Blame anyone or anything but the perpetrator for the crime.

[Anonymous]

   I think your sense of reasoning in regards to statistical data is pretty slanted. If 100% ( or 70, 80 or 90 percent) of the shooting incidents are tied to SSRIs and the like, you can't attempt to marginlise by the statistical reasoning you present.

I said I don't know the statistics. But what I asked was not "what % of shooting incidents are committed by antidepressant users?", but more like "what % of people taking antidepressants commit these atrocities?". I still don't know the answer, but I suspect it is something like 1 in 100,000, based on my observation that these drugs are widely prescribed and shooting rampages are pretty rare. If shooting rampages were a common side-effect of SSRI use, these drugs would be pulled off the market, no matter how much influence the drug companies have in Washington.

It might also be true that 90% of these crazed shooters were coffee drinkers. But that wouldn't prove cause and effect -- it would be foolish to infer that coffee drinking leads to shooting rampages.

And though it might be argueable that medications may benefit some people, looking at them 5, 10 and 20 years later tells the real truth about such alledged "benefits"..

Some of these drugs have been on the market for over 10 years, although clinical studies haven't tracked specific patients for that long. Some people report no side effects after nearly a decade of SSRI use, while others report side effects all along (same for long-term as for short-term).

The side-effects must be weighed against the benefits by each individual. Some people would rather live with the side effects than suffer through life without the drug. What are the "side effects" of untreated chronic depression? Reduced quality of life? Maybe suicide? Maybe a homicidal shooting rampage?

[Dr Phil]

I think they are a bunch of losers who are looking for a violent and bloody way to end their life and drag down whomever they can while they are at it. They see somebody do a shooting on TV and copy it, ah, the power of suggestion, how useful and destructive thee can be. There was another school shooting days before this guy did his, almost identical.
If anti-depressants caused school shootings, there would be a lot more. How many tens of millions of Americans have taken psychiatric meds at one time or another?